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Calendar broken?

13

Comments

  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭

    @counterpoint said:

    @DoctorDemento said:
    And the calendar continues to be broken. yes the exploiters are asshats who need to be caught and banned. But that said here are the facts. I have degree in computer science. I have 3 certs in programming. I am a retired network engineer who owned a ISP (internet service provider) here in the US for 8 years. I also did the IT work for it. I've even built servers for corps worldwide and one for NASA. And as a FACT of programming, they could have fixed this years ago and could fix it today. I want to make it perfectly clear, that is NOT my opinion. That is a matter of fact by programming standards. If they want to fix it. And yes the multiple publishers with different standards does not help the problem at all. I have been here for many years and knew back in the day if they didn't fix it, it would continue to compound into a larger problem and it has. And will continue to do so until they fix it. End of story.

    You don't need this appeal to authority to assert that software bugs can be fixed -- that's obvious. But as I've explained, even if they had fixed the known bug years ago, there was a second bug that was previously undisclosed that still could have caused this same exploit anyway (and this second bug contributed to making the severity of the first bug much, much higher than previously estimated). It's easy to sit here in hindsight and say that they should have seen the second bug coming, but there's no direct causality there. Maybe a full security audit of the code to look for vulnerabilities would have caught it, perhaps. (I've often said that BHS need to be trained on the age-old adage "Never trust the Client.")

    At the end of the day, the calendar may never be fixed. They may just decide to deprecate the whole thing and tell the publisher to use something else to give daily rewards -- such as daily parcels or the consecutive login reward event. Due to changing staff and competing priorities, sometimes bugs just are never fixed and features abandoned entirely.

    Plus, once they find a way to exploit something, they'll just keep creating work arounds every time there is a fix. The junk in the calendar simply isn't worth the fuss. The only thing I really liked were the stacks of 25fc. If they'd increase the fc drop rate even a bit, that would help making up for the lost fc from the calendar.

    @MargaretRose said:

    @Christin said:

    @MargaretRose said:

    @Christin said:

    @CornishRex said:

    @Christin said:

    @CornishRex said:

    @counterpoint said:

    @Christin said:

    @counterpoint said:

    @DoctorDemento said:
    Well it is still broken. Can't even see the daily rewards. So NOT FIXED. Imagine that. They love to take weeks or months or not at all to fix broken stuff. After years and years of this kind of stuff, it still annoys me when it happens.

    Yes, right now it is purposefully turned off. When there's an update, I'm sure they'll post about it, but it'll remain off for the indefinite future. It's not instead, but there is still a cumulative login event running right now where you can get rewards each day.

    And yes, these sorts of unfixed bugs annoy me (time zone bug with the calendar was a particular pet peeve), but the selfish actions that required it to be shut down completely (and a bunch of fashion coupon items removed) annoy me a lot more.

    Really? Selfish actions? It's not like they used some type of script or exploit. From what I hear, it was a you could keep clicking kind of thing. Blaming those types of issues on players is just sad. Everything all fine for them script fisher people, but shame on you extra clickers for being such a greedy bunch. Such hypocrisy.

    Just FWIW, you heard wrong. It wasn't "keep clicking" by any stretch of the imagination; it was quite literally an exploit script. That some people are claiming that's what it was means they either a) don't know what was really happening, or b) are trying to justify something that would get them banned in any MMO in existence and are arguing in very bad faith.

    It was not just an exploit script. Calendar dupe bug has been known for ages and I used to do it unknowingly, all it takes is for you to lag and click multiple times on the calendar out of frustration when the item doesn't pop up and there you have it, multiple items. Since I played with high ping this would happen often lol. GM's have been alerted like a couple of years ago, most regions don't even use the calendar for rewards but eme still does despite knowing about the bug. I'm sure someone made a script to make it more severe and impactful but it's easily reproducible by just lagging.

    Apparently, the exploit they are referring to is much more than the extra click lag glitch. Although the lag glitch does represent how desperate some are for FASHION COUPONS as I doubt people were trying to quick click for any of that other stuff.

    It was pretty much click glitch gone horribly terribly wrong because people knew it was exploitable and eme did nothing before the script was made which they could've, since they did know about it and all...
    I heard people were getting fashion coupons cause you could exchange for a certain reaper item that would dismantle into those new coins and you could get valuable costumes with it.

    People complained that EME didn't open up that coin shop, but this is what happens when they do. Gotta wonder if they'll start wondering if it even pays to do anything nice for us anymore, cause so many find exploits around so much these days. Honestly, I could never imagine being so into a game that I would work so hard to exploit and take advantage of it.

    Amused.
    Do not believe launching the same feature other regions got is doing "anything nice for us".
    The calendar exploit and issues has been around for years. Why wasn't that addressed before?
    That could be debatable if they made a special event for our region and it was exploited.

    However, of course, let's place the blame on the exploiters.
    Every time poor EME tries to do something nice for their players the exploiters ruin it.
    Guess they shouldn't bother doing anything anymore.

    Thanks for supporting my point. Not sure why people using exploits get so bumhurt when their desperation and hypocrisy is addressed. I mean who should we place blame on? The exploiters that create and support these type of exploits or an under-staffed publishing company just trying to keep a game afloat? Instead of making improvements to the game, they gotta police it cause so many act like a bunch of spoiled brats. Sorry if the truth hurts, but more often than not, it's those same exploiters that cry most when they don't get something they want in game.

    Was not aware those that disagree with yourself are automatically exploiters.
    If BHS/EME actually made improvements to the game a few years ago, we wouldn't be in the current situation.
    Not saying the exploiters aren't to blame, simply saying BHS/EME shares part of the blame as well.

    Not going to get into who is and who isn't using exploits, but when your comment pretty much implies that the cheaters are simply not to blame and making numerous excuses for them, you're really making things a bit too obvious.

    Blaming a publisher over people abusing glitches and exploits is beyond ridiculous. People sit there and take the time to find exploits and abuse them. That's like blaming the old lady, because she didn't hold her purse tight enough so the thief was able to run off with it. It's a bit to silly to say that the exploiters are justified all because the code allows for exploitation. Exploiters are to blame, because it's their fault that prizes and other rewards get taken away or not bothered with in the first place. They already punished all of us by seriously nerfing legion spawn times over bots. How long before we all end up punished over the fishing scripters and fishing is removed or seriously nerfed? It really is a handful of spoiled brats trying to ruin everything then crying like babies that dungeons won't pop and repeating over and over the game is dead. No doubt the exploiters will be the ones spamming the forum with demands for more fc shop updates and for the removed items to be returned.

  • MargaretRoseMargaretRose ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Christin said:

    @counterpoint said:

    @DoctorDemento said:
    And the calendar continues to be broken. yes the exploiters are asshats who need to be caught and banned. But that said here are the facts. I have degree in computer science. I have 3 certs in programming. I am a retired network engineer who owned a ISP (internet service provider) here in the US for 8 years. I also did the IT work for it. I've even built servers for corps worldwide and one for NASA. And as a FACT of programming, they could have fixed this years ago and could fix it today. I want to make it perfectly clear, that is NOT my opinion. That is a matter of fact by programming standards. If they want to fix it. And yes the multiple publishers with different standards does not help the problem at all. I have been here for many years and knew back in the day if they didn't fix it, it would continue to compound into a larger problem and it has. And will continue to do so until they fix it. End of story.

    You don't need this appeal to authority to assert that software bugs can be fixed -- that's obvious. But as I've explained, even if they had fixed the known bug years ago, there was a second bug that was previously undisclosed that still could have caused this same exploit anyway (and this second bug contributed to making the severity of the first bug much, much higher than previously estimated). It's easy to sit here in hindsight and say that they should have seen the second bug coming, but there's no direct causality there. Maybe a full security audit of the code to look for vulnerabilities would have caught it, perhaps. (I've often said that BHS need to be trained on the age-old adage "Never trust the Client.")

    At the end of the day, the calendar may never be fixed. They may just decide to deprecate the whole thing and tell the publisher to use something else to give daily rewards -- such as daily parcels or the consecutive login reward event. Due to changing staff and competing priorities, sometimes bugs just are never fixed and features abandoned entirely.

    Plus, once they find a way to exploit something, they'll just keep creating work arounds every time there is a fix. The junk in the calendar simply isn't worth the fuss. The only thing I really liked were the stacks of 25fc. If they'd increase the fc drop rate even a bit, that would help making up for the lost fc from the calendar.

    @MargaretRose said:

    @Christin said:

    @MargaretRose said:

    @Christin said:

    @CornishRex said:

    @Christin said:

    @CornishRex said:

    @counterpoint said:

    @Christin said:

    @counterpoint said:

    @DoctorDemento said:
    Well it is still broken. Can't even see the daily rewards. So NOT FIXED. Imagine that. They love to take weeks or months or not at all to fix broken stuff. After years and years of this kind of stuff, it still annoys me when it happens.

    Yes, right now it is purposefully turned off. When there's an update, I'm sure they'll post about it, but it'll remain off for the indefinite future. It's not instead, but there is still a cumulative login event running right now where you can get rewards each day.

    And yes, these sorts of unfixed bugs annoy me (time zone bug with the calendar was a particular pet peeve), but the selfish actions that required it to be shut down completely (and a bunch of fashion coupon items removed) annoy me a lot more.

    Really? Selfish actions? It's not like they used some type of script or exploit. From what I hear, it was a you could keep clicking kind of thing. Blaming those types of issues on players is just sad. Everything all fine for them script fisher people, but shame on you extra clickers for being such a greedy bunch. Such hypocrisy.

    Just FWIW, you heard wrong. It wasn't "keep clicking" by any stretch of the imagination; it was quite literally an exploit script. That some people are claiming that's what it was means they either a) don't know what was really happening, or b) are trying to justify something that would get them banned in any MMO in existence and are arguing in very bad faith.

    It was not just an exploit script. Calendar dupe bug has been known for ages and I used to do it unknowingly, all it takes is for you to lag and click multiple times on the calendar out of frustration when the item doesn't pop up and there you have it, multiple items. Since I played with high ping this would happen often lol. GM's have been alerted like a couple of years ago, most regions don't even use the calendar for rewards but eme still does despite knowing about the bug. I'm sure someone made a script to make it more severe and impactful but it's easily reproducible by just lagging.

    Apparently, the exploit they are referring to is much more than the extra click lag glitch. Although the lag glitch does represent how desperate some are for FASHION COUPONS as I doubt people were trying to quick click for any of that other stuff.

    It was pretty much click glitch gone horribly terribly wrong because people knew it was exploitable and eme did nothing before the script was made which they could've, since they did know about it and all...
    I heard people were getting fashion coupons cause you could exchange for a certain reaper item that would dismantle into those new coins and you could get valuable costumes with it.

    People complained that EME didn't open up that coin shop, but this is what happens when they do. Gotta wonder if they'll start wondering if it even pays to do anything nice for us anymore, cause so many find exploits around so much these days. Honestly, I could never imagine being so into a game that I would work so hard to exploit and take advantage of it.

    Amused.
    Do not believe launching the same feature other regions got is doing "anything nice for us".
    The calendar exploit and issues has been around for years. Why wasn't that addressed before?
    That could be debatable if they made a special event for our region and it was exploited.

    However, of course, let's place the blame on the exploiters.
    Every time poor EME tries to do something nice for their players the exploiters ruin it.
    Guess they shouldn't bother doing anything anymore.

    Thanks for supporting my point. Not sure why people using exploits get so bumhurt when their desperation and hypocrisy is addressed. I mean who should we place blame on? The exploiters that create and support these type of exploits or an under-staffed publishing company just trying to keep a game afloat? Instead of making improvements to the game, they gotta police it cause so many act like a bunch of spoiled brats. Sorry if the truth hurts, but more often than not, it's those same exploiters that cry most when they don't get something they want in game.

    Was not aware those that disagree with yourself are automatically exploiters.
    If BHS/EME actually made improvements to the game a few years ago, we wouldn't be in the current situation.
    Not saying the exploiters aren't to blame, simply saying BHS/EME shares part of the blame as well.

    Not going to get into who is and who isn't using exploits, but when your comment pretty much implies that the cheaters are simply not to blame and making numerous excuses for them, you're really making things a bit too obvious.

    Blaming a publisher over people abusing glitches and exploits is beyond ridiculous. People sit there and take the time to find exploits and abuse them. That's like blaming the old lady, because she didn't hold her purse tight enough so the thief was able to run off with it. It's a bit to silly to say that the exploiters are justified all because the code allows for exploitation. Exploiters are to blame, because it's their fault that prizes and other rewards get taken away or not bothered with in the first place. They already punished all of us by seriously nerfing legion spawn times over bots. How long before we all end up punished over the fishing scripters and fishing is removed or seriously nerfed? It really is a handful of spoiled brats trying to ruin everything then crying like babies that dungeons won't pop and repeating over and over the game is dead. No doubt the exploiters will be the ones spamming the forum with demands for more fc shop updates and for the removed items to be returned.

    Is that so?
    By that logic, perhaps you're the one using exploits and trying to look innocent.
    Since you're indirectly accusing multiple players on different threads.

    And the exploiters were allegedly banned.
    I already gave my point of view and you gave yours.
    Considering your last few comments on multiple threads, let's agree to disagree and move on.

    Also, now players asking for more FC shop updates are also exploiters?

  • DoctorDementoDoctorDemento Indiana, USA (BTW I've been playing here since late summer 2012, NOT 2016) ✭✭
    edited August 29

    Like I said, by NOT fixing the first bug, it allowed the second bug. Period. If they had fixed the first bug years ago, the second bug would not have existed. Do you understand what I am saying now. Just clairifying. And of course those exploiting the bugs should be held accountable. No person in their right mind would think otherwise.

  • @DoctorDemento said:
    Like I said, by NOT fixing the first bug, it allowed the second bug. Period. If they had fixed the first bug years ago, the second bug would not have existed. Do you understand what I am saying now. Just clairifying. And of course those exploiting the bugs should be held accountable. No person in their right mind would think otherwise.

    FWIW, the two bugs are tangentially related, but not a direct cause:effect relation. It's possible that, depending on how they fixed the first bug, it might have mitigated the second, but it might not -- it all depends on how they fixed it. But anyway, it's neither here nor there at this point -- can't go back in time.

  • DoctorDementoDoctorDemento Indiana, USA (BTW I've been playing here since late summer 2012, NOT 2016) ✭✭

    Nope can't go back in time for sure. That is a moot point indeed. But it is STILL broken. I would have fired my IT staff for not fixing it by this time. If they claim they can't fix it by now, there are two possibilities. One they are lying. Are they? I don't know and neither does anyone here. That view is subjective depending on your point of view. The other is, the IT staf is incompetent. In which case they should fire them and hire ones who can. There are no other choices at this point. That is obvious to even the most simple layman. They really need to fix it immediately at this point. It is making the game look insecure and the staff, uh well, not good. Just sayin...

  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭
    @DoctorDemento I'm always the one to jump at eme for messing up but you're overestimating their manpower and if their staff is even capable of doing this. likely these types of bugs are just redirected over to bhs so it's their job to handle them (which they won't cause it's a waste of time when eme could just switch to a different type of daily reward distribution like other regions did) since eme doesn't usually have the people for this, they're a really tiny team
  • edited August 30

    @DoctorDemento said:
    If they claim they can't fix it by now, there are two possibilities. One they are lying. Are they? I don't know and neither does anyone here. That view is subjective depending on your point of view. The other is, the IT staf is incompetent. In which case they should fire them and hire ones who can. There are no other choices at this point. That is obvious to even the most simple layman. They really need to fix it immediately at this point.

    The third possibility is: at this point, given that it's turned off and the risk for on-going damage is contained, it's not nearly as big of a deal as you say.

    Let's be honest: so what if it stays off for a week? So what if it stays off forever? The game doesn't need this calendar; the game existed before the calendar was ever created, and there are other reward systems they can use instead. (The cumulative login event on right now gives way better rewards than anything that was ever on the calendar anyway.)

    Basically, the only problem I have with your arguments is that you keep speaking in absolutes, and the actual world of software development is not nearly that black and white. The fact that this isn't fixed yet has nothing to do with either "lying" or "incompetence," it has to do with priorities -- and that has nothing to do with "IT staff" (who probably could fix it if they were told to do so), it has to do with the software development team management. The fundamental assumption you're making is that the developers were told to fix this as a top-priority issue, and I find that exceedingly unlikely because, at the end of the day, the calendar is not a mission-critical system.

    I am not trying to excuse them for not fixing the calendar, and personally I would like them to fix it. But... none of this is as simple as you say.

  • Yeah the calendar was super broken, can confirm myself. If your ping was over 200, you can duplicate items by clicking multiple times really fast before the server receives it. I got 18 smart Dyads from what was only supposed to be 1 Smart Dyad 😂 xD, multi emeralds, multi everything. All you had to do is login, click a bunch of times really fast and boom your inventory would flood with calendar rewards. I especially loved when they'd put Dyads and Emeralds in the Calendar ;) haha

  • DoctorDementoDoctorDemento Indiana, USA (BTW I've been playing here since late summer 2012, NOT 2016) ✭✭

    The software team is part of the IT team. Is at every company now for as long as I can remember. 48 years remember? And yes it is as simple as I say. Not trying to be rude but it is. And yes software development at this point in time pretty much is black and white. At least in coding as much of it is not really coded anymore but uses a multitude of of premade formats. C+++ anyone? Fixing the "bugs" would actually require someone to code the bug but also again using premade troubleshooting programs and alogrythms they have developed at the company they work for as well. And I will come here every single day and post "IT IS STILL BROKEN" until such time as they deign to "fix it". Because it is broken, now is it by choice or really broken is the question now isn't it? Allowing a product to be "broken" just flat pisses me off. I don't care what the product is. Fix it. Again not to be rude to you but I have done this for years and years and years. At this point it IS either lying or incompetence. PERIOD.

  • DoctorDementoDoctorDemento Indiana, USA (BTW I've been playing here since late summer 2012, NOT 2016) ✭✭

    It is still broken.

  • TJKatTJKat ✭✭✭

    You're forgetting that Tera's code is garbage. As long as it works on Korean infrastructure, it's good enough. For all we know, fixing the calendar bug could require them to rewrite half the game.

    PS. If you go through with your "it is still broken" plan, congratulations on getting the thread closed.

  • @DoctorDemento said:
    The software team is part of the IT team. Is at every company now for as long as I can remember. 48 years remember?

    It's definitely not the case in most software development companies or in the gaming industry. IT takes care of infrastructure (internal and external). Developers take care of client/server software code. When creating software is your business, the two functions are generally separate. Recently there is a bit more integration with the move towards DevOps (so IT are moving a bit back towards development, and development is moving a bit back towards IT), but this sort of issue is definitely a software team bug and not IT.

    And yes it is as simple as I say. Not trying to be rude but it is. And yes software development at this point in time pretty much is black and white. At least in coding as much of it is not really coded anymore but uses a multitude of of premade formats. C+++ anyone? Fixing the "bugs" would actually require someone to code the bug but also again using premade troubleshooting programs and alogrythms they have developed at the company they work for as well.

    Are you saying that because they're aren't still writing code in assembly, it's like they're "not really coding"? Just because software development has been abstracted into formalized programming languages with common libraries and APIs doesn't mean the task is "black and white."

    But besides that, the issue we've been discussing has never been "can the bug be fixed" it's "will they decide that it's worth their time to fix it." They're completely separate issues.

    And I will come here every single day and post "IT IS STILL BROKEN" until such time as they deign to "fix it". Because it is broken, now is it by choice or really broken is the question now isn't it? Allowing a product to be "broken" just flat pisses me off. I don't care what the product is. Fix it. Again not to be rude to you but I have done this for years and years and years. At this point it IS either lying or incompetence. PERIOD.

    No amount of childish pouting from you, or making bold assertions based on appeals to authority and ALL CAPS, is going to make them decide to fix this bug more quickly. You're wasting your time -- and everyone else's time in the process.

    @Rox posted an update regarding the calendar in the news post here, which is:

    On the topic of in-game calendar, this feature will remain disabled until the underlying exploit is resolved. We apologize for the inconvenience.

    If or when the situation changes, I expect them to post another update.

  • yeah lots of people were hacking or something

  • DoctorDementoDoctorDemento Indiana, USA (BTW I've been playing here since late summer 2012, NOT 2016) ✭✭
    edited September 1

    NO I am not a troll. I am just what I stated. And it appears the only "trolls" are the ones attempting to give "excuses" to a company who is doing it wrong. I am done with arguing. I have stated the facts that I know are true and so do others. Even if they choose to not admit it. I will however come everyday and post "It is still broken". Well because it is. Good luck with your head in the sand.

  • DoctorDementoDoctorDemento Indiana, USA (BTW I've been playing here since late summer 2012, NOT 2016) ✭✭

    It is still broken...

This discussion has been closed.