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Tera in 2019. A review from MMOByte.

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Comments

  • MargaretRoseMargaretRose ✭✭✭✭✭

    Accurate...

  • RKCRKC ✭✭✭

    Yeh I have to admit that is spot on. I dont know what the developers are doing with tera and as much as I love this game, having all classes and all races all max level with good gear but right now it is just soo bland to play the game.

    Im sorry tera as much I love you and you will always be the game that made me game like hell but I cant do this anymore good bye. :(

  • edited October 1

    The hard turn from leveling content to endgame and community expectations therein has been a constant problem with this game that's partly on the developers and partly on the veteran player community. There's a very heavy "you should already know what you're doing so you're not wasting our time" vibe, but most casual players are not going to go out and Google all these guides, videos, and other references so they can not make any mistakes on their first try. Most people just queue for end-game content the way they queued for leveling dungeons along the way and find suddenly that all the expectations changed. Even if they had managed to get into PvP, it has many of the same issues. This is basically what keeps the endgame experience something only for the core players -- the people who will go out of their week to seek out the information and "get good" so they can keep playing the game.

    Of course the game also added a bunch of solo content and other things to do, but for people who primarily enjoy playing dungeons (it seems this player primarily leveled via dungeons), it's basically the end of the road if they're not willing to invest. The fact that they also released the level cap increase without a corresponding new zone/quest structure (as they did in the FoA expansion) also makes it less accessible to casual players, and they're either forced into endless grinding or again, dungeons, which have the aforementioned problem. The new zone they're adding now doesn't entirely help because it starts at level 68 and requires you to be geared up a fair ways, so you still have to bridge that gap on your own.

    In any event, the video is a fair presentation of this person's experiences while playing the game, and while I don't think those experiences will apply to everyone, it's fair to say that it will apply to some people, and some of these problems are really difficult to change at this point. (For example, no matter what they do now to make endgame more welcoming to casual players, you're not going to easily change the attitude of the existing veteran players that's grown over years of passive reinforcement.)

  • MargaretRoseMargaretRose ✭✭✭✭✭

    @counterpoint said:
    The hard turn from leveling content to endgame and community expectations therein has been a constant problem with this game that's partly on the developers and partly on the veteran player community. There's a very heavy "you should already know what you're doing so you're not wasting our time" vibe, but most casual players are not going to go out and Google all these guides, videos, and other references so they can not make any mistakes on their first try. Most people just queue for end-game content the way they queued for leveling dungeons along the way and find suddenly that all the expectations changed. Even if they had managed to get into PvP, it has many of the same issues. This is basically what keeps the endgame experience something only for the core players -- the people who will go out of their week to seek out the information and "get good" so they can keep playing the game.

    Of course the game also added a bunch of solo content and other things to do, but for people who primarily enjoy playing dungeons (it seems this player primarily leveled via dungeons), it's basically the end of the road if they're not willing to invest. The fact that they also released the level cap increase without a corresponding new zone/quest structure (as they did in the FoA expansion) also makes it less accessible to casual players, and they're either forced into endless grinding or again, dungeons, which have the aforementioned problem. The new zone they're adding now doesn't entirely help because it starts at level 68 and requires you to be geared up a fair ways, so you still have to bridge that gap on your own.

    In any event, the video is a fair presentation of this person's experiences while playing the game, and while I don't think those experiences will apply to everyone, it's fair to say that it will apply to some people, and some of these problems are really difficult to change at this point. (For example, no matter what they do now to make endgame more welcoming to casual players, you're not going to easily change the attitude of the existing veteran players that's grown over years of passive reinforcement.)

    Believe that's mostly meant metaphorically.
    Anyone playing long enough is aware changes will most likely never happen.

    Would be surprised if I'm mistaken.

  • TJKatTJKat ✭✭✭

    @counterpoint said:
    The hard turn from leveling content to endgame and community expectations therein has been a constant problem with this game that's partly on the developers and partly on the veteran player community.

    And since that video got made, leveling has only gotten worse. Sure, they may have tightened up and streamlined the story, but leveling to 65 has become the most boring, and pointless process imaginable. People used to joke that leveling to 65 was the tutorial, but now it isn't even that. It wasn't the best learning process before, but now you learn nothing. Nothing lives long enough for you to actually try your skills and see how they work. Nothing really hurts you - self damaging skill will hurt you a lot more than mobs will - so you never learn to move or position yourself. The sheer number of people you see running 65+ content with no green crystals because they never learn what a crystalbind is or what it's for is astounding.

    Sure, some of the blame lies on the veteran community's "you should already know" attitude, but the lion's share of the blame rests with the developer who has brought the leveling process to the point where they might as well start players at level 65 with all their skills and gear because the current leveling process won't leave you any more prepared for level 65+ content.

  • Thanks for sharing this! I used to love TERA. Being a founder, I'm a saddened by what the game's become after all this time but it happens to all MMOs at one point or another.

  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hello, checked this forum by chance when it showed up in my browser's list. Still, I'm posting as a retired player. I've seen MMOByte's channel and so far he seems honest and informed enough. His current opinion of the game is spot on from my perspective as well. Anyway, I stopped playing this game not because of the mentioned problems, (in my case I finally recognized that if I can't make friends nor join a group, I shouldn't be near any MMO at all) but I recognized these issues long ago. The biggest current problem for me being the huge gap in between leveling and end game, a road the devs and publishers have largely left for the players themselves to walk alone. Sure, yes, the community could have played a great part here, but with no guidance, and with the rather prevalent existence of the elitist self serving mentality some high tier players insist on bringing into the game, the community effort breaks apart, leaving newbies discouraged.

    Sadly this isn't the only MMO suffering of this, and it is one of the reasons why the genre seems to be on constant decline.

    Me and others have proposed changes before. As in: To make leveling content meaningful again. It does not need to be remade into the ultra long leveling of before, but making monsters require actual effort to defeat so people can learn their classes and the importance of gear in the heat of combat before ever reaching level 65. For example. Don't send me to kill 50 weak beasts spread around a map and with a low spawn ratio. That's boring and only teaches me to use attack and spacebar till my digits bleed. Send me to either a room with a horde of small enemies that come in large groups, or send me to kill one or two super strong enemies that could kill me easily if I'm not careful around them. I'd mention other things but since I'm not playing, I'd be talking from misinformation, so I'll leave it at this for now.

    Bottomline, MMOs can be fixed and rescued, but it requires effort from both devs and community to make it happen.

  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭

    Interesting video until he practically starts crying over getting kicked from a few dungeons. Only alternative is to not allow kicking, so yeah.

    So, make the world pretty again and hand hold them to 70. Wait, they don't like the hand holding, but then complain about it when they don't get their hands held. I don't get it. He also doesn't like that there aren't any quests people have to hunt for? Everything seems fine until they get to higher levels and have more expected from them. Then, they get upset over a few kicks and more upset that they don't get led to 70.

    The main problem is that people can't agree on what to do to fix the game. They want harder content, yet complain when they get kicked or content is too hard for them. They want to be lead to each level yet complain that the game is leading them through each level. When the game stops giving them easy quests to complete for the last 5 levels, they gotta complain about that as well. You wanna be lead through content or you don't wanna be lead through content? They want no more kicking when and if they get kicked, yet complain that others don't know what they are doing in dungeons.

    I really think a big part of it is that the game is trying to make so many people happy, which makes people mad, because they don't like to or want to do everything. Almost like there is too many options or something. "PVP is dead." So they can't handle dealing with leveling after 65, yet somehow, they are going to champion pvp? Even if pvp hadn't been dead, they would have been raging at getting kicked more or mad over something else pvp related.

    I agree about making the world pretty again. I don't get the thinking that trashing the world to make it look like the bad guys are winning is helping anything. Even in one of the patches a few months ago, they made more areas bleak and depressing. If anything, they need to change areas back to being pretty. Maybe they are keeping the pretty for those level 68 and higher?

    Lets get rid of the grinding to. I know the hard core players like the grinding, but grinding is boring, so yeah, no more grinding. Just quest me to level 70 please. Let me dungeon for top gear and don't let anyone kick me either, because I will always say it's the first time I've done that dungeon. I am always learning.

  • I agree with Christin on this one. Trying to satisfy everyone destroys mmos and the part where he got mad about being kicked while admitting he didn't know mechs made me wince. How hard is it to look up a dungeon guide? He's a youtuber and in one of his other videos I forget which tbh, he states that he had to look up guides for some mmos. So it's not like he is incapable of research. "Handhold me please" then goes to "Handholding is bad". That is paraphrasing of course in case anyone wants to be "That guy" or "That girl" and say "oh but he didn't directly say that" like it wasn't directly implied in the video. He's trying to have his cake and eat it too.
    It's obvious that tera has problems, quite a few in fact. However, going in expecting to be given things while expecting it to be hard but not too hard to do casually is dumb. It's antithetical to any serious gearing and leveling system.
    He generally has decent reviews and videos but he dropped the ball on this, similar to lazy peon's ffxiv video in it's presentation and content.

  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 5

    I agree also that some of the messages were skewed. As I said before, there could be a clear line that tells players "this is what you can do to enjoy the game as a casual, and this is what you should be expected to do to go further than that." Yes, there's the star system in the dungeon list, and an explanation of what those stars mean right besides the dungeon list. But do people read? Maybe a more in your face approach could guide some people..... but will certainly anger others.

    As others have said, you can't please everyone. And instead of trying for an everything approach, maybe the devs should just point the game towards a certain demographic. Because after all, it's extremely hard, or maybe impossible, to make casuals and hardcore players coexist in the same place with the same content. And with the dwindling population, it would be a really bad idea to create a "classic" or "hardcore" server to further divide the stuff.

    So yeah, maybe it's time for EME to see which demographic they want to serve, and kick the rest out for good... again, dwindling the game's numbers even more, but at least finally gaining an identity that may be beneficial in the long run... hopefully.

    As for MMOByte, as honest as he may seem, he should also get his thoughts sorted. Because after all, he monetizes from them and a non-clear mind is bad for business.

  • I do enjoy earning upgrades rather than simply being handed them but the level 70 update, even though it took a good amount of time to complete, was not well thought out addition. Yeah sure it gave players something to do and to work towards. But it also made all of their alts useless and provided a huge wall of grind to climb with little content to back it up.

    A much better way of doing an update like that would be to stratify the changes and progression over a longer period of time. That way you give players a chance to progress to whatever the level temporary cap is without feeling like they have to kill bams for hours a day to catch up. In the end everyone does the same amount of work. But you're able to hold player's attention and make a patch last much longer without so much dead time and without so many people giving up and quitting because of the ridiculous grind.

    The Caiman event is a terrible way to solve progression issues. It does the job sure, but killing bams for hours to have a chance of getting a guy to spawn that has a chance of spawning a portal only to enter and be rewarded but for for what? Mindlessly clearing some of easiest "end game content" TERA's ever seen locked behind layers of rng. Where's the challenge in that?

    Hopefully the new patch will address the gearing system that is now reaching critical mass. Of course I don't think I'm ready to spend 10's of millions of gold getting the new p2w pets. (I could write a very long rant about how much I hate the partner system...)

  • Blackbirdx61Blackbirdx61 ✭✭
    edited October 6

    @Christin said:
    Interesting video until he practically starts crying over getting kicked from a few dungeons. Only alternative is to not allow kicking, so yeah.

    So, make the world pretty again and hand hold them to 70. Wait, they don't like the hand holding,

    It should be noted Byte is a professional MMOs are what he does for a living; and he has no little experience of Tera; if you check his library this is like the 3rd Video he has done on the game over the years. Now I have no doubt that he must of been standing on the wrong Pixel, or used the wrong skill, in the wrong order, or in someway offended someones Eliteness. God forbid; but I think the point was, and its pretty clear in the comments of the YouTube; if a player of even that level can get booted; how are new commers ever supposed to learn... Oh yes there not they offend your Leetness. Fine really you have every right to never party with someone beneath you; but please then stop whinning about how your game is dying.

    Because you cant have it both ways. You can Have a tiny, ever diminishing population of Elitists, or you can welcome new players into your game; but when you boot someone thats an invitation to leave the game, not just the party. So hand out all those invites you want; and when your game dies remember it was YOU that killed it.

  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Blackbirdx61 said:

    @Christin said:
    Interesting video until he practically starts crying over getting kicked from a few dungeons. Only alternative is to not allow kicking, so yeah.

    So, make the world pretty again and hand hold them to 70. Wait, they don't like the hand holding,

    It should be noted Byte is a professional MMOs are what he does for a living; and he has no little experience of Tera; if you check his library this is like the 3rd Video he has done on the game over the years. Now I have no doubt that he must of been standing on the wrong Pixel, or used the wrong skill, in the wrong order, or in someway offended someones Eliteness. God forbid; but I think the point was, and its pretty clear in the comments of the YouTube; if a player of even that level can get booted; how are new commers ever supposed to learn... Oh yes there not they offend your Leetness. Fine really you have every right to never party with someone beneath you; but please then stop whinning about how your game is dying.

    Because you cant have it both ways. You can Have a tiny, ever diminishing population of Elitists, or you can welcome new players into your game; but when you boot someone thats an invitation to leave the game, not just the party. So hand out all those invites you want; and when your game dies remember it was YOU that killed it.

    Frankly I have never in my life seen anyone get kicked in a leveling dungeon (that wasn't afk of course) and I've leveled well over 50 characters over the 4 years I've been playing. Much less seen anyone get kicked for gear? Or not knowing mechs? In a leveling dungeon. I wonder what was the case in reality, perhaps he meant a lvl 65 dungeon but he said he got to 64 so that's weird as hell.

  • JerichowJerichow ✭✭✭✭

    @CornishRex said:

    Frankly I have never in my life seen anyone get kicked in a leveling dungeon (that wasn't afk of course) and I've leveled well over 50 characters over the 4 years I've been playing. Much less seen anyone get kicked for gear? Or not knowing mechs? In a leveling dungeon. I wonder what was the case in reality, perhaps he meant a lvl 65 dungeon but he said he got to 64 so that's weird as hell.

    I have - it's pretty awful. Was running KC right at the border of leveling dungeons and starting to get into actual gearing dungeons, and after the first boss two people started trying to kick the archer that didn't keep up in DPS. I accidentally misclicked to kick the first guy but wrote it off as a mistake. After they did it again to the person who replaced the first guy - I refused to kick them and asked to just finish the dungeon. They just trolled the party (and didn't recruit because one was party leader) - and just kept throwing up the kick vote for the next 40-ish mins until the last random decided to leave - few seconds later, I was gone too.

    I sent in a pretty lengthy and scathing report for the two players but honestly I would bet money that it never amounted to anything. The problem is, that one run alone set the expectation of how the end game is for two new players, and then for me, an at-the-time +2yr Lancer main - that queuing in this game outside of a static has devolved into just toxic elitists who would rather spend an hour trolling a random party than to just finish the last boss of a dungeon a little slower because someone wasn't as sweaty, tryhard as them.

    So in that regards - I fully agree with the review, being kicked for the most pathetic and arbitrary reasons by openly vocal and hostile toxic elitists probably does more damage to this game's population than a lack of content. My only regret is that I don't get to see the faces of these cancerous people when they get the notice that Tera is shutting down. That moment when they realize the game they so openly prided themselves on, with borderline hostility towards anyone 'lesser' than them is shutting down would be hilarious to watch, if only because we all know that it was their antagonistic, better-than-you attitudes they shoved in every newer player's faces was a key driving force in the downfall of this game's player count.

  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭

    @Blackbirdx61 said:

    @Christin said:
    Interesting video until he practically starts crying over getting kicked from a few dungeons. Only alternative is to not allow kicking, so yeah.

    So, make the world pretty again and hand hold them to 70. Wait, they don't like the hand holding,

    It should be noted Byte is a professional MMOs are what he does for a living; and he has no little experience of Tera; if you check his library this is like the 3rd Video he has done on the game over the years. Now I have no doubt that he must of been standing on the wrong Pixel, or used the wrong skill, in the wrong order, or in someway offended someones Eliteness. God forbid; but I think the point was, and its pretty clear in the comments of the YouTube; if a player of even that level can get booted; how are new commers ever supposed to learn... Oh yes there not they offend your Leetness. Fine really you have every right to never party with someone beneath you; but please then stop whinning about how your game is dying.

    Because you cant have it both ways. You can Have a tiny, ever diminishing population of Elitists, or you can welcome new players into your game; but when you boot someone thats an invitation to leave the game, not just the party. So hand out all those invites you want; and when your game dies remember it was YOU that killed it.

    I could care less at how "professional" of an MMO player he is. Kicking is part of a game, and the only way not to get kicked is be geared and know what you're doing. Kicking is part of MMO's, so if he is such a professional, he should be able to get over it. Alos, if he is such a professional, why didn't he go over a guide of the dungeon instead of crying over being kicked, because he was such a noob? He even states in the video that he didn't know the dungeon, but how is he supposed to learn? Guides buddy.

    And no, I don't really have a lot of sympathy for people that don't even bother to look up guides or videos, then, go into a dungeon totally expecting to be carried and hand held the entire way through. Sure, they may not know all of the mechs, but when they gotta hide behind rocks but just stand there and die, you can't blame a team for getting annoyed. Most of the players that gripe about "elites" are simply players that feel they deserve to be carried through until they can "learn". Plus, even telling players the mechs in the dungeon doesn't work half of the time, because so many of the players don't speak English.

    Maybe they should add training dungeons where players can go in and learn the mechs, solo versions of every dungeon or let players run dungeons with NPC's. Of course, they'll be trashed for hand holding like they did with the intro, but at least it will be some way for people to learn. Not sure what else they could do.

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