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Dungeons are unbalanced

24

Comments

  • @TheDarkWan said:
    Remember when HH was released for the first time? the amount of players who tried to get in and do it was amazing. I still haven't seen anything like it. When the dragons were summoned it was the biggest joke I have ever seen, raids wiped in seconds. The point is there is plenty of players who like Tera and are excited to play but EME shoots them down and kicked them out of content by putting gear and experience blocks that drove them away and then HH became a joke only done by a certain group and friends carrying their friends in there. LFG is killing the game IMO, I think If LFG is removed players must turn to each other and help each other learn and grow.

    Removing LFG will change nothing when it comes to the current community. All you'll accomplish is inconveniencing the players that do use LFG. They'll turn to global, posting their LFG "insertDungeon Need D/H/T" messages in global to accomplish the same goal that LFG served.

  • TheDarkWanTheDarkWan ✭✭✭

    @Bastolve I don't mean to disable the LFG chat, I mean disable entering dungeons from outside. All dungeons become a que entry only and remove the dungeons teleportals all together, If you die you can resurrect at the main load in area of the dungeon not outside anymore. LFG will end permanently and players have to help each other clear runs. No more elites, everyone is on the same playing field. Even if they make a group of 4 they will need to leave out a spot to que and give someone a chance of doing the dungeon with them.

  • XeirylXeiryl ✭✭✭
    > @TheDarkWan said:
    > @Bastolve I don't mean to disable the LFG chat, I mean disable entering dungeons from outside. All dungeons become a que entry only and remove the dungeons teleportals all together, If you die you can resurrect at the main load in area of the dungeon not outside anymore. LFG will end permanently and players have to help each other clear runs. No more elites, everyone is on the same playing field. Even if they make a group of 4 they will need to leave out a spot to que and give someone a chance of doing the dungeon with them.

    if you think experienced players are unfriendly now, imagine what they’d be like if this actually happened and they got stuck with someone who thinks they’re entitled to a spot in their party
  • TYoung11TYoung11 ✭✭✭

    @TheDarkWan said:
    Remember when HH was released for the first time? the amount of players who tried to get in and do it was amazing. I still haven't seen anything like it. When the dragons were summoned it was the biggest joke I have ever seen, raids wiped in seconds. The point is there is plenty of players who like Tera and are excited to play but EME shoots them down and kicked them out of content by putting gear and experience blocks that drove them away and then HH became a joke only done by a certain group and friends carrying their friends in there. LFG is killing the game IMO, I think If LFG is removed players must turn to each other and help each other learn and grow.

    I think your idea of what constitutes a "good" instance is different from what others do. There are a lot of players in Tera that only play the game because they enjoy the way the combat is and the difficulty associated with some of the dungeons. If they made all of the dungeons easy with low mechanic/skill requirements, I for one would not be here.

    Harrowhold was one of the best things to happen to this game when it was first released and when it was revamped. The first raid I was in, we spent two months before we finally cleared. The hours practice and the amount of organization that went into that first clear were insane, but we did it. I was in three different raids, two of which I helped to lead and organize as well as subbing for 2 other raids. All in all I had over 150 clears there.

    No, it was not something you just walked into and did without first putting the effort into learning (at least until gear outpaced it...), but that was the novelty of it and part of the satisfaction of clearing it. The same goes to the first few times you clear the new end game dungeons as they come out. I agree that there is a big gap between easy and harder dungeons right now, but the hard dungeons serve a purpose. They act as an objective to work towards if you are not there yet.

    As for actually getting into them. It's always the same. Meet people and start learning runs. It's how just about everyone that has learned them did it. It's an MMO after all. All statics started somewhere...

    Rant done :D

  • TheDarkWanTheDarkWan ✭✭✭

    @Xeiryl experienced players should not have that power to withhold runs, this is a public game not a private one. If they want a private one there are other games out there for that.
    @TYoung11 learning mechanics is truly one of the most fun elements of Tera and finding out different classes ways of avoiding them and even thriving in those mechanics is so exciting but you and I both know that this becomes very mundane once mastered. The game is torn right now, LFG vs Que is not a new struggle and I understand both sides need. Right now LFG with the new roster of dungeons it is extremely important and time sensitive that players are able to clear the new content. There is about 6 dungeons that players want to learn, don't ask them to spend 2 months or even 1 month for them to learn those mechanics. That's just unrealistic. I agree with you but I hope that you understand my point of view as well. Experienced players are not helping others by not Queueing and thus we are here. My proposal would force experienced players to do so, and allow unexperienced players to learn more easily without spending days trying to find out who is an experienced player in the dungeon they want to learn and then try to befriend them and ask them to run with them on learning runs.

  • TheDarkWanTheDarkWan ✭✭✭

    @TYoung11 If you also want to challenge yourself even more you can run hard dungeons with lower gear. You don't need crazy mechanics to be challenged in the game.

  • AnungAnung ✭✭

    @Xeroshu said:
    @Elinu1 I think you missed the purpose of this patch, its to get "casual" players like yourself caught up, You could always ... idk get better at the game and run higher tier dungeons... ?

    when you play Tera mods scripts online all you have to do is make a group of friends willing to play with you (healer, tank) that's how you get good at the game lol.

  • noctrednoctred ✭✭

    @TheDarkWan said:
    Experienced players are not helping others by not Queueing and thus we are here. My proposal would force experienced players to do so

    Forcing anybody to do anything is a poor idea. Specifically, forcing experienced players to help inexperienced players by killing off the ability to create 5 mans is pretty stupid - it wouldn't accomplish anything other than making bitter players more bitter. Yeah, this is a "public" game but if people want to play exclusively with their small circle of friends, they're free to. They don't have to play with you. You can make your own friends and play with them.

    There's nothing inherently wrong with statics.

    Personally I see a few issues -

    Firstly, people who are either unwilling or for some reason unable to make friends and try to rely entirely on IMS for every single dungeon. Solo players, antisocial players, cave dwellers, guildless players, whatever. They don't want to interact with the community and yet feel that the community owes them something. These folks don't have much ground to stand on imo.

    Second, people who try to participate but fall victim to the exclusionary tendencies of the Tera community. Since the community is kinda small, there can be a legitimate problem when it chooses to close itself off and leave newer and inexperienced players to fend for themselves. Doesn't happen everywhere, but it happens often enough that it can be difficult to find a static unless you came to the game with a group of friends already.

    And most recently, the removal of so many dungeons and normal modes. This was batshit [filtered] imo and I really don't understand the rationale behind it. They made gearing easier for new players and simultaneously made it harder for new players to get the experience they need to put that gear to use. What happens when veteran players see people in their runs who are decked out in anni/DL and yet clearly have zero experience? Benevolent exceptions will always exist but on average this scenario just breeds resentment. Sort of reminds me of what's happening in BnS currently with the Call to Arms event - new players are getting geared for free and veterans are so [filtered] bitter that they actually flat out refuse to help any obviously boosted players who attempt to join their parties. It's pretty harmful to the game and its community but that's what happens.

    The only real options these players have are either... a) party with other inexperienced players who are actually willing to suffer together and won't quit after a couple wipes (not as easy as it sounds in a game this small), b) luck out and find training runs hosted by veterans, which are few and far between these days, or c) join a guild which is actively focused around helping their members with learning runs (not sure how many of these are out there).

    --

    You can't force mental shifts in people. If you try to "force" veterans to help others or spend their time in a way they'd rather not, things will only get worse. What you should be asking is "why" veterans don't want to help new and inexperienced players. Once you figure that out, you can start looking at solutions.

    For starters, a sidekicking system along the lines of what Rev Online has would probably be nice. If vets could help players out without risking their own entries and adventure coins, they might be more open to hosting training runs - then again, that could also just be abused for farming alts so who knows. Making entries/AC consumed on clear rather than on entry could also help... move all loot to the last boss and it's fine, and it would coincidentally resolve some other issues with dropped runs.

    I dunno. It's hard to solve people problems in low pop games with steep learning curves.

  • TYoung11TYoung11 ✭✭✭

    None of the top three dungeons are mechanically difficult and nothing we have compares to HH. The new dungeons are just large meatbags or have large shields that require a substantial amount of dps to clear.

    Having experienced players help newer players is a noble idea, but it's hard to incentivize people that spent hours or even days learning a dungeon to then carry people who may not have put in the effort already. If you want a system like that to work, you need to incentivize people to do it. FA is not an easy dungeon to carry people. It is possible, but once again, that's a lot more work without incentive.

    Doing dungeons in less gear does not make them more interesting, it just makes them longer and less efficient to run. Players make dungeons more interesting by trying to find ways to make them shorter, pushing boundaries.

  • TheDarkWanTheDarkWan ✭✭✭

    @noctred From what I understood of your post the idea is "introverts vs extroverts". Well statistically speaking most gamers are introverts who are not big on social situations. If you read my posts you would have seen I said that you can make a group of 4 of your friends but leave out a spot to que and take a person with you who is not a friend. Seems to me that the elite community is the one who is closed off and does not want to meet new people. Also why do you assume that the person who will join you will not be a good player?. Talking to my friends about this issue they tell me that people sell runs and it's very profitable.
    @TYoung11 people are clearing FA in six minutes. What a big loss having them clear it in 10.
    After seeing these arguments I'm more convinced than ever this is the correct path EME needs to take to fix content access in the game.

  • TheDarkWanTheDarkWan ✭✭✭

    I haven't read one argument, not one that explains why LFG is good for the game. The BnS argument is the reason why LFG should stop. The argument that Elites want to play with their friends, they still can. The argument that it's not fair for experienced players to play with unexperienced players is the very reason Tera has a hard time growing.
    People please Help me understand why LFG is best or needed. If there is nothing then we are at an agreement and LFG should be stopped. This is a discussion and I'm more than happy to be proven wrong.

  • noctrednoctred ✭✭
    edited April 11

    @TheDarkWan said:
    Well statistically speaking most gamers are introverts who are not big on social situations.

    They're playing an MMORPG which, as a general rule, thrives on social interaction. If you're a loner, that's fine, but understand that being a loner will naturally close off certain avenues for you in this type of game.

    @TheDarkWan said:
    Also why do you assume that the person who will join you will not be a good player?

    I don't. That wasn't really the point.

    @TheDarkWan said:
    Talking to my friends about this issue they tell me that people sell runs and it's very profitable.

    Selling runs is a choice you make. Being forced to run with 4 people and exclude a friend is a choice that's made for you. The point I was trying to make is that it's a bad idea to force choices onto people, especially when they're social in nature.

    Don't make people do. Make people want to do.

  • TheDarkWanTheDarkWan ✭✭✭

    @noctred did we get to choose the dungeons? did we get to choose the mechanics? did we get to choose game functions? that's not up to you or me. If EME or BHS decide that it's good for the game, neither you or me have a choice in it.
    "They're playing an MMORPG which, as a general rule, thrives on social interaction. If you're a loner, that's fine, but understand that being a loner will naturally close off certain avenues for you in this type of game" Tell that to the elites.

  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 11

    @kamizuru said:
    How to resolve casual/new player problem ? it's simple, create a LFG (learning run) enjoy! ;)

    Way back when, I made a learning run for Sirjuka Gallery and people cycled in and out the party for a solid 30 minutes. Never got a full party, never did that dungeon before it was removed.

    Now what?

  • noctrednoctred ✭✭
    edited April 11

    @TheDarkWan said:
    @noctred did we get to choose the dungeons? did we get to choose the mechanics? did we get to choose game functions? that's not up to you or me. If EME or BHS decide that it's good for the game, neither you or me have a choice in it.

    Are you trying to equate game design with dictating who people can and can't play with? That's a non-argument. Yes, you have to play the game within the confines of the game's design parameters - you have little choice in that. However, who you play the game with should always be your choice.

    This is why I qualified my comment with "especially when they're social in nature".

    Killing off statics and forcing the entire game into IMS would solve nothing. It would, however, create a slew of new problems.

    edit:

    and i don't even have a static so i have no vested interest in this.

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