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Dungeons are unbalanced

13

Comments

  • > @TheDarkWan said:
    > @noctred did we get to choose the dungeons? did we get to choose the mechanics? did we get to choose game functions? that's not up to you or me. If EME or BHS decide that it's good for the game, neither you or me have a choice in it.
    > "They're playing an MMORPG which, as a general rule, thrives on social interaction. If you're a loner, that's fine, but understand that being a loner will naturally close off certain avenues for you in this type of game" Tell that to the elites.

    Should probably quit being a loser and make friends. Absolutely no different than any other mmorpgs dungeons. If you have people that play with you obviously it’s going to be easier. I don’t understand how you sit here and complain. You’ve probably been blacklisted by the people that actually do runs since you really think you deserve everything by doing absolutely nothing. We ALL had to find a static group or find learning groups why do you think you’re any different? Now imagine doing current content when there was only 800 people online and 75% of them were leveling and the “elitist” had 5-10 groups that would clear things without ever letting people in. It’s a static for a reason.
  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭

    Alright so, I got back after a 6 month break and boy was I surprised at the dungeon selection. I'll just reiterate what @noctred said but I just have to get it off my chest because it's so silly

    The current dungeon progress is absolutely horrible for new players and the more casual ones. Imagine you're new. Now imagine you managed to get to lvl 70 and 461 ilvl which is fairly easy to get... and the first dungeon on the ims list is AAH... Lmao. So you get into the dungeon with no knowledge because, why should you bother, you didn't have to so far, and you die and die and die but it's not actually a problem because you can just rez instantly because you get 99 resurrections. So what's the point of the hard mode? I don't even want to begin with gvh and the healers I've seen in ims when I'm not healing, the amount of disbands I experienced in these past few days I've been back is insane. People give up at the first wipe in ims because their 99 rezes couldn't carry them through as they would usually if they had a decently skilled healer/tank/whatever role is important.

    And now these people, that run through gvh/glsh/aah/aq with minimal knowledge of those dungeons, their classes and just proper dungeon running etiquette try to do CS and FA? It won't go well. At the very least rk and rr, dungeons we've had for years already, could go away and be replaced with glsn/aan/gvn if necessary, so newbies can ease into the hard modes. Not saying we didn't have aan and glsn for forever now but if we're keeping the hard modes it's good to have normal modes lmao
    Also, for all the casuals that are familiar with the game but still scared of gvh/glsh/aah, don't be, resurrections really give you an easy time and in okayish gold gear they don't hurt that bad, EU is full of people running those blindly and clearing, and well, getting carried most of the time lol

    For me personally, current dungeon setup is a great source of entertainment and I do have fun running these in ims but I'm not so sure about the newbies and casuals. Today, in AAH, my friend asked if people knew the mechs on last boss because second boss was a horrible mess with the debuffs and she got told "why should you explain mechs when we have easy rez"...

  • TheDarkWanTheDarkWan ✭✭✭

    Still I don't see a single point. Elites don't want to IM even with their friends because they don't want to make friends. @CornishRex I agree with you. I have to say being in a trap run is the most fun I have in Tera as it's more challenging. @yabiochya there is no need to be rude and call elites losers, it's called being an introvert. Elites just don't want to make friends or open to the community and just want to stick to certain groups only. I just want to play with everyone. The very definition of IMS is that you meet strangers and play with them, while LFG is a lot more closed off and selective.

  • kamizumakamizuma ✭✭✭✭

    if there's so many people having trouble finding parties, couldn't you all just... make a party together?

  • AluhAluh ✭✭

    Lmao what the F is this topic

  • The main problem is that not only are the dungeons unbalanced, but the game is unbalanced towards them at the expense of everything else, even this event and the last one where focused around them, with no alternatives for anyone who couldn't or didn't want to do them. Bluehole has demonstrated once more that they never learn from their mistakes. Gating a large portion of story/gear progression behind dungeons exclusively doesn't work well, nor does gating an event behind it work well either.

    And it's not like there aren't potential alternatives they could add. Maybe add some of the newer/relevant materials as options from the Dawnstorm tokens, or fix the metamorphic emblem shop, which now has mostly (if not all) useless outdated material. Or the Ace Dungeon Shop, which for the longest time had stuff from back when Imperator was the best gear (and still might).

    Cause I can tell you that running Macellarious Catacombs 16 times per character gets tiring and tedious very very fast. But, it's the only option I've got for these Courageous tokens, and one that I know I can run solo if need be (though thankfully Instance Matching so far has gone consistently quickly for getting me into a run...quality may vary.) Every other dungeon is either an unknown or has left such a bad impression from a past run that I said never again.

    And Mythic/Kaia's Fury is yet another potentially good idea turned into a blunder, by gating it behind a questline apparently requiring Akalath Quarantine and Corrupted Skynest, and material from the latter to even have a chance at getting. It's like the people that gave us the Guardian gear system and the changed IoD and other options all got replaced, and whoever's in charge now thought regressing was somehow a good idea.

  • this game is already corrupted.
    neither the publisher nor the developer is being concerned with what the community is doing with the game.
    it just changes the game for the "hardcore cash player" to enjoy.

    best thing you can do and look for a mobile mmorpg game, because all PC mmorpgs are corrupted by an elitist community.

  • XeirylXeiryl ✭✭✭
    edited April 13
    it's clear that there is no point in trying to discuss this with you. i definitely think the removal of so many dungeons this patch was only harmful to the newbie community; the normal modes they left in are way too easy, and there's a huge step up from those to the hard modes. i also agree with OP that the current dungeon roster isn't awesome - i'm so unbelievably tired of recycled bosses it makes me want to pull my hair out sometimes. the attitude OP has towards this issue, though, is unproductive and unfair.

    the players that you call "elite" had to learn these dungeons too. we logged the wipes (and for some dungeons, these took hours - i remember spending 30 hours in harrowhold 20 over the first week wiping over and over again on two characters), and over time, we got better. it benefits EVERYONE when more people are capable of doing higher-tier content, especially when the population has shrunk to a fraction of what it was in 2013, when i started playing. that's why over the years i've joined countless learning runs, and in the case of harrowhold 20 after my raid got our server's first clear, i not only started my own raid filled almost completely of learning players but also helped part-time teach at least two others. i play a healer, so my role in learning runs is especially important - and can be especially frustrating sometimes.

    i feel like, as time has passed, points of view like OP's have just become more and more common - there's no gratitude for the players who choose to spend their dungeon entry and time (i had one csnm fight in the past 2 weeks take 47 minutes, and that was just for the attempt that we cleared), and just more and more demands of "well, what are you going to do for *me*?" i said that it benefits everyone for new players to make it to higher-tier content, but the entitlement and evasion of responsibility i have experienced from the learners in my runs have completely turned me off trying to help complete strangers take that step anymore. we put all that work in once, and now we're over it. why should we do that again for someone else who doesn't say thank you, and who thinks it's their god-given right to be in our party?

    i think part of the responsibility for this falls on the game's developers/publishers; if i'm going to spend 4x the amount of time that i should in a fight while having to pick people off the floor every 30 seconds because i'm teaching/carrying others, 6,000 gold and some enchanting materials i don't need anymore does not make that worth it for me. i also really like noctred's idea for incentives - knowing that i wasn't going to waste a dungeon entry and adventure coins if the party gives up also wouldn't hurt my interest in continuing to help new players.

    i'm definitely not saying it's easy for new players to climb the ladder - i think i was incredibly lucky that my "climb" happened back when the game was active and there were enough people around that i was always given a chance. but i am saying that this is a two way street. you're not the only one who matters in this equation and if you keep acting like you are you're not going to endear anyone to your cause.
  • TYoung11TYoung11 ✭✭✭
    edited April 13

    Over the weekend I considered this post and decided to see just how bad it was to try and LFG with unskilled/low gear characters.

    I created LFG's on two different characters that were both unskilled. One was a dps with a +10 eternal weapon with the rest of the gear being between +5 and +6. Only had to LFG for about 5 min and had a party that cleared two back to back runs with no wipes. The second character was a healer in full +6 eternal. Started that LFG with two friends, one of them had never cleared before and the other had never taken their tank into CS and was not skilled on that character in anything other than dungeons like RR/RK. We cleared after one wipe.

    It was a double drop weekend for CS, so you could argue people were more willing to join any party, but you could use the same logic to argue that the "elitist" would only want the most experienced and geared players for the most efficient runs. However, given the results of creating my own LFG's on under geared and unskilled characters, I really do not understand why so many people complain about being unable form parties for these dungeons. Just start your own LFG and be willing to take others that are unskilled or have "low" gear.

    This is as blunt as it gets...but...put in the time and carry yourself. All those "elitists" players had to get a start too, it's not like they just walked into the game knowing their classes and all the mechanics of the game as well as having BiS gear. Sorry, but that's just kind of the sentiment and the nature of the beast xD

    Edit for --> For any doubting, I attached a pic. of the dps gear. Keep in mind you have to clear CS to finish the quest to convert to mythic gear. You are also not able to convert unbound gear (so you can not convert it on another character first).

  • TheDarkWanTheDarkWan ✭✭✭

    We keep going is circles, same arguments over and over. BTW there is no real threat to you elites this was a pipe dream from the beginning, EME don't not have the power to remove LFG and BHS doesn't even know anything about this discussion. Even counterpoint did not comment on this thread cause he knows nothing will change so why bother. I in all honestly got what I wanted and that was for elites to know what they are doing to the game and who they really are "in the sense that they are not the most epic people around, they are introverts" and some even started making LFGs with new players was just a nice thing to see. I request that this thread be closed as it served it's purpose. Thank you all for your valuable input I appreciate it.

  • This patch is too easy and ppl say "Dungeons are unbalanced" are u serious?

  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭

    @yabiochya said:

    @TheDarkWan said:
    @noctred did we get to choose the dungeons? did we get to choose the mechanics? did we get to choose game functions? that's not up to you or me. If EME or BHS decide that it's good for the game, neither you or me have a choice in it.
    "They're playing an MMORPG which, as a general rule, thrives on social interaction. If you're a loner, that's fine, but understand that being a loner will naturally close off certain avenues for you in this type of game" Tell that to the elites.

    Should probably quit being a loser and make friends. Absolutely no different than any other mmorpgs dungeons.

    I have friends, both in the game and out of it. You know what they're not doing? Running dungeons or even playing TERA at all (I mean, neither am I, partly because of that, partly for other reasons that, for now, I'll keep to myself).

    So now what? LFG? I don't like people enough to rely on that on a regular basis and as I've said earlier, even making a now-infamous "learning run" is a crapshoot. And for anyone wondering why I'm even bothering with an MMO if I don't like people, it's because I play GAMES, inherent genre be damned. And if I enjoy that game, I'll keep playing it.

    What's my other option? The IMS? Sure... except that's even more of a crapshoot for a different set of reasons, up to and including people rolling on gear that doesn't apply to them (I know it's not really an issue now, but I still have very bad memories of losing much-needed tank accs to an archer on at least 3 separate occasions) to being little more than a glorified support, as a lancer, because BHS knew jack all about class balance at the time (loud obnoxious coughing).

    So if I can help it, I'd rather just grow and progress at my own pace. Sure, it's slower, but at least I'm playing the game on my terms and not someone else's.

  • @TheDarkWan disse:
    We keep going is circles, same arguments over and over. BTW there is no real threat to you elites this was a pipe dream from the beginning, EME don't not have the power to remove LFG and BHS doesn't even know anything about this discussion. Even counterpoint did not comment on this thread cause he knows nothing will change so why bother. I in all honestly got what I wanted and that was for elites to know what they are doing to the game and who they really are "in the sense that they are not the most epic people around, they are introverts" and some even started making LFGs with new players was just a nice thing to see. I request that this thread be closed as it served it's purpose. Thank you all for your valuable input I appreciate it.

    sincerely.
    I think 6 months ago there was one that created a topic similar to this one, yet nothing has changed.

    any player who has been playing for +2 years will not change the way they play so that a new player can improve the game (they don't care about new players, because they've had enough of new players complaining and left the game).

    they just go on with it until the game no longer has "new lazy players, which get in the way of their game".

  • AbstractCHAbstractCH ✭✭✭

    It's almost like lfg exists, and you can make learning runs! Wow! Crazy! :)

  • RakdenRakden ✭✭

    I agree that they removed quite a lot of dungeons recently but... hasn't it always been like this every time some gear-changing patch comes? I mean, we cant be sure if at May both RR and RK9 disappear, just to be replaced with GLSN or SS, and in June some other dungeons, like boosted TR and RM. Having such rotation monthly would be really nice.

    It does feel like there is no gap between RR/RK9 and hardmodes atm - GV and DFN was nice middle ground between harder dungeons, being few times more beefy (~8b hp vs 1-3b). The RR and RK9 arent that complex to learn, especially if party dps is relatively acceptable and after dungeon's key mechanics, wipes got nerfed (bombardment at RK9's first boss, color mechs at old RM).

    However I kinda understand the elitist-like approach - would you like to have or even risk having your run ruined by 1 person breaking mechs, over and over, refusing to learn? The 70 lvl event made it tricky to guess who actually played for a long time, getting to know own class, grinding stuff and learning to play and who could have used the 70 lvl scroll on 10lvl (or less) alt, getting kinda free gear. Another thing are leechers, ONLY hoping that party will carry them and they will get free loot - is it fair when you work hard on your gear, skills, character, just for people to take advantage of it for their own needs? Another reason why people try to stick in more closed, trusted groups.

    Speaking of which, there used to be event or... actuall mechanic? I dont think it works anymore though, where 'Skilled' players were getting rewarded if they queued alone and had 'Rookies' in party. Shame it doesnt work anymore nor it works for LFGs - rather than force people to split, give them a reason to actually help each other.

    Also, removal of most of dungeons is actually good thing (choice of them, different matter though) - if there are 5 people, each queueing only for 1 dungeon of selected choice, they will never get a party. Less choice, less queues, IM working faster (and people have always complained about the queues after all). However, the gold reward could be rebalanced too - nice sum of gold from relatively easy dungeon would make it worthwhile for stronger players to queue them too instead of only getting no-so useful mats for them. Another good thing is reduction of amount of required materials type wise - no longer have to run 5 different things to get 5 different materials. RR and RK9 wise, it is either weapon or armor feedstocks being only difference, being also quite clear.

    There is a lot of things to change every time patch comes, that will take few maintenances, patches to get fixed. Echoes of Aranea STILL give guardian gear materials, and Ace Medal's shop still has PRE ARSENAL materials. We can't really expect EVERYTHING to be updated, balanced at once. Unless we want tons of bugs on our head and maintenances taking days rather than hours.

    To people complaining about patch: give it some time to settle in, Arsenal one was also very game mechanics breaking at it's time, let the bugfixes come, let the balance changes arrive over time... given they actually do in reasonable time.

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