The future for Conflate and VM8?

Madheadjosh

Hi guys, I wanted to make a discussion about full conflate and vm8.

I wanted to know if full conflate will be better than vm8 +12 or at what enchantment vm8 starts beating conflate at?
Now we all know conflate will receive buffs, weapon in particular getting a 7% buff and full gear receiving 20% in total? But I want to know if conflate will get nerfed in the near future after the patch, because new gear generally means they will tone down old gear so people can shift to the newer one but if this will be the case will conflate still be worth getting?

Also if anyone can provide any nice info on conflate weapon against vm8 weapon and how well that compares to each other that would be great! Because I am trying to get conflate weapon as my 1st piece so this will make my choice very clear if I know what to expect and the life expectancy of the gear itself.

Lastly despite this weird username you can just call me Madheadjosh as thats my ingame name.

Let me know what you guys think!

Cheers!

Moppypop

All the info you want is here: https://sites.google.com/site/yoshasstuff/latest-ktera-gear-set & https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VKlszx-5TE2cf7-3QTfLEN9xxBoQhrn2olYDbZGYGzc/edit#gid=2023237982
On the vm8 patch, all of conflate receives a buff, armours being beyond even +15 vm8.5 in raw defence at +12. Shortly after, imperator, "Lilith" and vm8 weapons see a buff to compensate for the buff on conflate weapons. However on the 30 man raid patch, ONLY conflate boots see a nerf down to "Lilith" stats, due to people complaining PvErs are using them.

"they will tone down old gear" this does not happen. New gear just beats old simply by having superior stats, though there are a few cases this is true, which is hydread settings and ship jewelry for healing, but that's it. Generally their policy is to buff the up to date gear, not nerf old gear.

Edit: About which weapons will be best: it depends on class, for brawler and lancer, conflate weapons are bad because their pvp damage line is 6% instead of 20%. For healers conflate weapons are simply not worth the investment, and for a DPS it depends on how good the 20% damage on conflate beats the pvp attack you gain on VM/non-VM, and how valueable VM roll is for your class. For example for reaper I think VM8 +15 is better than conflate due to not using pvp attack crystals and benefiting well from the VM roll.

Madheadjosh

Thanks for the spread sheet, I am fairly surprised that conflate stats are showing to be better than +15 imperator and even matching to captivation, not sure if this includes their extra role they get.

Okay so as a Slayer I want to know if my class will benefit from the weapon or not?

Another point I want to make, are you saying if you dont use pvp attack crystals you won't get the best out of conflate weapon? Not sure how that works tbh, in general the whole pvp attack/pvp defence is confusing, I understand it doesn't apply on mobs but Idk what the 20% pvp dmg goes to, where that percent go or where the base dmg is, because I'm sure it isn't based off your base damage (power) as a whole?

But the link is great and info too!

Moppypop

What I meant is that conflate weapons benefit more from pvp attack crystals, as there isn't any present on them, only an independent 20% damage, meanwhile on non VM and VM, you have pvp attack on the item, thus reducing the value of pvp attack crystals. However I don't know the maths on what pvp attack does, so I can't say what's best for all classes.

Also the 20% damage in pvp, is the same as any % damage, found on i.e. conflate gloves at 6% as pvp only, or on VM gloves at 3% for everything, same as damage rolls on weapon too. All the numbers are additive and NOT multiplicative when added up together, so let's say you have 20% pvp damage from weapon, and in total 12% regular from weapon rolls, 6% pvp damage from gloves, it means you'd be doing 12% more damage outside of pvp, and 38% more damage in pvp.

Madheadjosh

I understand now, thank you for clearing that up.

For the sake of this discussion, what class are you and which gear would you build on that class and why?

Personally from what you're saying conflate is better not just in stats but as a cheaper option than +15.

GK3KAGTL9X

Imperator weapon at +15 will outperform conflate weapon not even counting extra lines or vm proc, however conflate chest and gloves are undeniably best in slot after the buff, after conflate shoe nerf, vm8+15 will be very slightly better.

As I understand you are looking for a strong pvp gear at a reasonable price, then I would suggest you to get conflate chest, glove and shoe with imperator weapon. After the next gear rolls out and many ppl start getting vm8 weapons, you might be able to buy imperator +15 for a cheap price.

Moppypop

MCL9CPFXJY wrote: »

For the sake of this discussion, what class are you and which gear would you build on that class and why?

I main mystic. If I were to gear myself for pvp in current patch, I would be using imperator weapon, with +15 imperator boots, along with a pvp rolled imperator chest due to a healers priority of having more crit resist factor, gloves and belt would be conflate. I would be using pvp defence crystals.

Next patch before conflate boot nerf, I'd use VM8 weapon, conflate chest, conflate boots, conflate gloves and conflate belt OR Vm8 belt. After boot nerf I'd be using VM8 boots.

However VM needs to be awakened and upgraded some from that, to beat out conflate, so conflate lets you bridge the gap a lot more cheaply. So I myself I believe conflate is there to help bridge the gap to be sufficiently geared without investing an unreasonable amount of materials or time to participate in pvp.

Madheadjosh

Cheers guys, I'm currently looking at buying a Conflate chest at 100k as my first piece, as for my 2nd I'm debating whether or not I go for Conflate sword or if I can somehow afford imperator +15? But I think buying Imperator sword wouldn't be good in the long run, it'd take me ages to get +15 and by the time I do that there will be a better weapon or some form of balance patch.

Also conflate sword does better damage than +15 imperator according to the spreadsheet Moppypop has kindly provided us.

GK3KAGTL9X

If you look carefully at the sheet you will see that imperator +15 has a bit higher attack modifier (note that it's also getting buffed along with conflate next patch) and the only difference when compared with conflate is 20% pvp damage line against 30 pvp attack. Now this part is obviously confusing what exactly pvp attack gives. Additionally you can't decisively say which is better, because it depends on what other rolls your have and how much pvp attack you have from other sources. However, for the most standard setup with griefing zyrks and nocs, these lines can be assumed to be equivalent. So the imperator weapon will have a bit higher base attack but most importantly an additional rerollable line which very definitely means that imperator weapon will be better than conflate (for example, it could be an additional 7% back damage).

Also to answer your original question vm8 will beat conflate even at +12. To summarize:

vm8 +15 > imperator +15 = vm8 +12 > conflate +12 = lilith +12

Madheadjosh

Okay so I've decided to go with this build for my Slayer:

Conflate chest and Conflate gloves.
Captivation boots and Captivation weapon (VM8)
And the belt I guess can be either Conflate or Captivation doesn't really matter much to me.

That's the build I think will be cost efficent and for long term, I hear Conflate chest and gloves are the best part about Conflate so I'll mix it a bit with Captivation weapon or I guess even Imperator weapon if its really cheap.

Hodman

@MCL9CPFXJY that sounds good.