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Iron and Crimson Dragons 10/25/16

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  • Tenshi1Tenshi1 ✭✭✭✭
    Xod wrote: »
    One thing I think everyone can agree on is that this whole mess has been an emotional roller coaster that feels much like how the Hindenberg disaster looked. This roller coaster started for me all the way back when flying mounts were first introduced. I was excited and wondered how they would work.

    When we got them I thought they were great. I was happy with the free one I could get from the quest and I liked the fancy account bound ones in the store. Even then I was secretly hoping that some day they would make the Kaiator dragon/pegasis available as a flying mount. Heck, I used to take unnecessary flights up there just to be able to fly around on a dragon and take screenshots.

    Then I saw the first promo image of the dragons and I was among those people posting “shut up and take my money!”.

    When we learned about the various colors and types of dragons, I was assuming that the regular versions would be available in the store as account bound mounts and that the royal versions would come out of loot boxes. At that time I looked at the most expensive flying account bound mount and figured that the dragons could not possibly cost any less than that and set some funds aside to purchase them.

    Then the announcement of the original plan came and my excitement was dashed. They are not doing ANY account bound mounts?! I have to grind bams for EACH character I want a dragon for?! One of the two colors ONLY comes from PVP?! Which one?! I don't do PVP and I really wanted the black one.

    Next I watched the Friday twitch stream where Spacecats explained how everything was going to work and I actually got excited again. Spacecats was able to sell me completely on that system. The grind was not so bad and I was looking forward for getting guildmates together for dragon hunting parties! The black dragon I really wanted was the PVE bam killing and I was even thinking about dabbling in PVP for the first time ever to get one red one! I was all hyped and could not wait until the Tuesday patch!

    Patch day! The servers are up!! I grab my bam killer and jump out to the Isle of Dawn! Ummm I have completed my three vanguards and not a single token drop. Is this a bug? Is the drop rate supposed to be this bad? I go looking for anyone who has won a battle ground, Have you gotten any tokens? No?! It must be a hideous bug. After about two or three HOURS of this we get the announcement: 'opps no! Dragons in the store not the game, and we are not doing the pan we told you anymore. More info later. *maybe*'.

    THAT is what grieves me the most about this entire thing. I simply cannot believe that EME didn't know that their plan had been yanked before they were putting the patch in. THAT is when you need to make an announcement to the community, BEFORE the servers come up. You do not let the players find it out for themselves THEN give an announcement after the fact.

    -_-
    and emotionally I'm like BETRAIL

    Now to be sure here, I do not care AT ALL about the crit buff and the only reason I was ever interested in the royal dragon was the increased movement speed perk and the longer flight time. That is it.

    So, we all get cast into some kind of cesspool limbo of waiting for half a month or so.

    Monday, we get the announcement of what we now have in front of us. Emotionally lots of people are like BETRAIL SONG and I was too for a while.

    Then I looked back at everything that happened and I realized if BHS stabbed the players in the back, they only did it through the bodies EME first. I could tell EME was every bit as happy and excited about their original plan as I ended up being. EME was not only stabbed in the back, they are also left to take the brunt of the aftermath as well.

    What kind of witchery did EME have to pull off to get non-buffed dragons as account bound mounts? We are the only region that has that. I fully believe that EME was severely up against a wall on this and sincerely did everything they could with what they were allowed to work with. They were all set to run a race, had their legs broken by their coach, and told “NOW RUN!”

    In the end, I actually got what I wanted in the first place. Here I sit, on my account bound black dragon, feeling like I got mauled by a rabid wolverine, and I fly out over an emotional battlefield littered with casualties and wounded.

    All in all, I am emotionally very confused right now.

    I actually read all of that xD

    When I first found out about the flying mounts, I KNEW there was gonna be dragons from Kaiator, I just knew it, if not on that day then some time in the future.

    I have to say, I'm so very disappointed that I can't get on my ninja and bam hunt on IoD to get my dragons, which is what I intended on doing from the initial announcement. My excitement from that initial dragon announcement has now dropped to underneath my shoes.

    I am a very sad elin :(
  • SpacecatsSpacecats ✭✭✭✭✭
    Frakett wrote: »
    We were promised that we would get an iron dragon if we go and kill bams and a crimson dragon if we do enough pvp. The problem comes when they decide to implement 2 fking RNG systems to them, and on top of that, you don't even get to choose what dragon you get if you even get one. I don't want to go and do glitchy dungeons only to get 6 pieces a day only to not get anything. @Spacecats lied to us and now he is pretending he didn't behind the "we are just publishers" screen, just shifting the blame onto BHS meanwhile the Ghost and Diamond dragons remain as they intended, Tradeable and Bankable.
    Now tell me, Do you think this is fair?

    You're referencing the old system that was planned for Guilded Age, but players were told that the reason for the Iron and Crimson dragon delay was because that system had to be scrapped, and that things were being reworked after conversations with Bluehole to align with their intentions for the dragons. We did our best to communicate this through forum announcements that were stickied while people waited for dragons to arrive. I also talked about the delay during the Twitch streams following the initial reveal of the dragon system, saying that the initial plan wasn't able to be implemented in our version.
  • SpacecatsSpacecats ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    Ketoth wrote: »
    So after 23 pages, no reply from EME part about the negative feedback?

    I'm collecting a lot of the same feedback from a lot of players. Not just in this thread but in a lot of update and dragon-related threads. Honestly, very few players are giving new ideas or feedback here, and players aren't asking questions about the new system that I can answer, so for the most part there aren't specific comments that require a reply. Saying that, I definitely understand how you guys feel after reading these comments. Your dissatisfaction with the system put in place isn't being ignored, but right now there's no news on this system changing. If there IS some kind of change to the dragon system, I'll make sure you guys see it by creating a new announcement.
  • FrakettFrakett
    edited October 2016
    @Spacecats, When were we told about the reason for the delay or that the system had to be scrapped? I apologize but I can't recall and instance where we had any info about the system being changed before you posted it in this thread. All I can remember was people asking for them and EME ignoring them. Other than when you said that they would be released by the end of October, but I don't remember anything about the system being removed and changed for a double RNG one
  • @Frakett
    https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/6771/dragons/p1
    Here, Treeshark made that thread about a month ago. However, they said they wanted to keep 'fighting' the P2W model that many publishers have followed on several games, like EU TERA
  • @Doganzaka Thank you very much for the reference!
    however I don't see any mention of the system or any system scrapping.
  • @Frakett
    Historically, EME loves doing things as a 'suprise', since they can't give much info to their players about how things will be done. We've seen on this patch (if you've been playing for a long time, you will know this is true) that things might change at last minute, just like Dragons' system. Even if sometimes EME doesn't really like it, BHS makes such changes to happen no matter what. They're so closed coding for their own version, that ignore to their players all around the world (EU/Russia/NA/JP), that ask for different things such as costumes, content, systems, PVP and PVE challenges, etc.

    Dragons are the perfect example, since they made it specifically as a system that migt work for KTERA (Might, as I'm not totally sure) but it won't work for NA at all, we've seen that all the players are upset about the RNG clusters that every time we get on every new content. We're so done with this, because every good thing on TERA is RNG based:
    1. Enchanting +9 / +12
    2. Enchanting expansion to +15
    3. Lootboxes
    4. Bonanza Boxes
    5. Vanguard Boxes
    6. Seasonal events
    And so many more things that I didn't list here, and then, adding RNG over RNG over RNG to get a non-Royal Dragon that might take you up to 3 to 6 months to farm, is a spit on players. Pheraps KTERA players will accept this as a challenge, as something to be 'proud of', but we don't, as NA TERA is more of a casual player base than hardcore player base (There are tons of hardcore players, but there are even more casuals), and farming for so long for a 1.5x buff instead the 2x buff, and also, the flying time reduction and the lack of the +10 spd to mounts, don't let you feel that is an actual good reward.

    In fact, just making the pieces or the claws an store item (As Fashion Cupons) and letting you choose the dragon you want, and adding the Royal Version of both dragons to the store for, lets say, +4 pieces (10 instead 6), would be a better system for NA, as you have the choice of the dragon you want to have, and also, giving the players the chance to get the Royal Dragon instead buying it.

    As this, there are so many things that EME can't handle against BHS, and I don't really know why and I can't explain it myself, as I'm not working at EME (I would like, sometime), but yeah, that's why Treeshark didn't said anything about the new system. Sorry if I overexplained a bit.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ketoth wrote: »
    So after 23 pages, no reply from EME part about the negative feedback?

    What do you want them to say? That's the system, it's not changing, deal with it.
  • KetothKetoth ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Ketoth wrote: »
    So after 23 pages, no reply from EME part about the negative feedback?

    I'm collecting a lot of the same feedback from a lot of players. Not just in this thread but in a lot of update and dragon-related threads. Honestly, very few players are giving new ideas or feedback here, and players aren't asking questions about the new system that I can answer, so for the most part there aren't specific comments that require a reply. Saying that, I definitely understand how you guys feel after reading these comments. Your dissatisfaction with the system put in place isn't being ignored, but right now there's no news on this system changing. If there IS some kind of change to the dragon system, I'll make sure you guys see it by creating a new announcement.

    Most of the bad feedback come from the fact that a Power Item (Dragon passive) is behind cash shop. IMO people wouldn't complain if the JUST +2.0 crit passive was able to get in game. If just the 1.5 and 2.0 passive (without the dragons) are available in game through non-rng grinding people would be happy, and the P2W argument would be gone. But right now if noone buys the royal boxes, noone will get a 2.0 passive.

    If you want a suggestion here it is : Ask BHS to create a skill book that teach the Draconis Master for 50 dragon scale and Dracon Rex for 100 Dragon scales

    I understand that EME and BHS need make money, and selling mounts are one of them. But making a skill only available through Cash Shop is asking to receive a lot of critics.
  • KiraboshiKiraboshi ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Ketoth wrote: »
    So after 23 pages, no reply from EME part about the negative feedback?

    I'm collecting a lot of the same feedback from a lot of players. Not just in this thread but in a lot of update and dragon-related threads. Honestly, very few players are giving new ideas or feedback here, and players aren't asking questions about the new system that I can answer, so for the most part there aren't specific comments that require a reply. Saying that, I definitely understand how you guys feel after reading these comments. Your dissatisfaction with the system put in place isn't being ignored, but right now there's no news on this system changing. If there IS some kind of change to the dragon system, I'll make sure you guys see it by creating a new announcement.

    Well that's some good news.

    The most important thing to collect here is that the reason for the outrage isn't so much the RNG, but that the non pay dragons are significantly weaker than the store bought ones.

    This means that stats are being hid behind a paywall, which makes Tera a pay2win game. This is the first time Tera NA has gone this far and BHS is severely underestimating how many players they will lose to this, especially with Revelation Online on the Horizon. People will no longer be able to defend staying on Tera vs the next new MMO, because the standard defense of "At least Tera isn't pay2win" no longer exists.
  • edited October 2016
    Teekz wrote: »
    ...

    Your venting is not telling EME anything they don't already know (and couldn't anticipate) about this decision, and calling them names isn't going to change the political situation that forced them into this mess -- which they've made clear was not their intention or idea. At this point all we can do is just remain focused on why exactly it's bad what is the minimum needed to make it acceptable in everyone's eyes.
  • I didn't care about some buff that might click on a week from now from learning the dragon skill. all I wanted was an account bound flying dragon mount for all my people. when I heard about the flying mounts I was hoping deep inside for the kaitor dragon. I saved up and set aside $60 for an account bound one just in case they ever brought them out. yes I was excited about the possibility of being able to farm iod bams for free dragons, and I was like I can spend the $60 on bank tabs and costumes or whatever in the game. I wish they would have just done back with guilded age patch what they did yesterday, and just had account ones that were cosmetic and hp and mp, then the good ones in loot boxes in the first place like all other mounts and then as a pleasant surprise tell everyone that if you run X dungeons you might as a slim chance , get a free one. people wouldn't have gotten so upset then. never say free first if you're not sure if you are able to do it or not. it is easier to implement a pleasant surprise than to ask for forgiveness and have people losing faith in you. my rl friend and I decided on the crimson dragon instead of the iron one. we stayed up late last night chasing each other around on them and taking screenshots. something we would have done a month ago if thet would have sold them then. I don't regret spending my money on something I truly want in the game. im not a whale by any means, and this was something I saved up for and planned for months in advance. thank you eme for bringing them out, but please, next time, if theres any doubt that bhs wont let you guys do something, don't promise it. and if they do let you, then we can be pleasantly surprised.
  • If you're just publishers it's probably best to talk to BH about how we're all pretty much done with this game because the q's don't pop... we can't earn our mounts at our own pace/on our own time and there is no pvp or competitive aspect left that's worth doing or grinding for. I could sit here and try to give you ideas and feedback but I feel like BH is doing this to us not EME... they killed their own game, don't worry, not your fault EME.
  • kubitoid wrote: »
    Don't torture yourself.
    Games should be for hobby, fun, and self satisfaction.
    video games shouldnt be for self-satisfaction. there are other things for this out there. i wont name them because.... i just will not.

    exactly kubitoid.
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