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Iron and Crimson Dragons 10/25/16



  • SpacecatsSpacecats ✭✭✭✭✭
    Kiraboshi wrote: »
    The most important thing to collect here is that the reason for the outrage isn't so much the RNG, but that the non pay dragons are significantly weaker than the store bought ones.

    Well... maybe so, but both of those things are still on my list. :)

  • NibellungNibellung ✭✭
    edited October 2016
    @Spacecats i have a sugestion , make Mysterious Dragon Egg 100% change to get a dragon and with a chance to get the royal version .
  • Nibellung wrote: »
    @Spacecats i have a sugestion , make Mysterious Dragon Egg 100% change to get a dragon and a with a chance to get the royal version .

    That's a good idea.
  • BHS really needs to just give EME more control. All the publishers, really. The publishers understand the markets they operate in better than BHS does. They know how to make things profitable and keep their player base large+happy. While publishers would still be unable to make large-scale changes[1], they should be given far more independent control over the contents of cash shops and how/when those items are available in-game outside of the broker (be it by event or token system). EME's original system wouldn't have hurt sales of dragons in the least, as people would still buy them to avoid the grind. Making them available in-game as planned would have been a huge boon to player happiness, even with the probably 3-6 month grind it would still have been. And given the way things have been going because of bugs and false launches due to them (CU:V etc)[2], EME very much needed something to give to players. They need a win. They need more control.

    [1] Even if BHS gave EME all the power, it still wouldn't have been possible to keep remodeling, Vanarch, Alliance, Crusades, etc. That would put significantly more work on BHS keep everything else they add working with systems that they have long removed from their own version. We'd still get the patches KTera gets largely as-is. This unfortunately includes things like BGs being equalized, since that's not a configuration setting. BHS should probably move more of these things to configs for publishers to tweak as needed.

    [2] I understand the issues aren't entirely EME's fault. Things like reset scrolls not working for the first, at worst, week is a minor annoyance from a BHS oversight. Same with certain reoccurring bugs (+15 never seems to work the first week of a new VM). BHS needs to work on their build process, as this is clear evidence that merging changes from KTera into other builds is far from a consistent, stable process currently. CU:V worked in testing and but not production. That's something very .. strange. I'd be curious to hear what the difference was that caused the problems, if EME is allowed to say.
  • Heruvim wrote: »
    Of course its not fair, i was replying to the dude that was complaining that people who dont want to run hard dungeon doesnt need dragons.

    I was not complaining. zzzzz
  • edited October 2016
    TsukasaKun wrote: »
    CU:V worked in testing and but not production. That's something very .. strange. I'd be curious to hear what the difference was that caused the problems, if EME is allowed to say.

    For what it's worth, they mentioned that the bug was caused by the fact that the TERA production servers run on UTC time, and apparently they're the only publisher in the world to do that (despite it being a standard industry best practice). I guess the test servers, being local, were running on local time or weren't being triggered by the same process. How BHS managed to get a timezone bug in the triggering process is the real mystery... lol

    Incidentally, I agree with your assertion that the original plan would probably have worked out fine. It would have increased player engagement and satisfaction, which is ultimately better for the game. I choose to believe that this is ultimately more profitable for a free-to-play game, because happy customers are more willing to support you. As a result of all the anger/bitterness, I'm sure they've lost a lot of potential sales (plus a ton of goodwill -- this will be brought up for years as a black eye for EME and TERA), and I'm sure EME realizes that. But perhaps BHS is signaling that there will be more things like this going forward, and they don't want to set some sort of precedent (even if that precedent is the right thing to be set).
  • XaeraXaera ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Ketoth wrote: »
    So after 23 pages, no reply from EME part about the negative feedback?

    I'm collecting a lot of the same feedback from a lot of players. Not just in this thread but in a lot of update and dragon-related threads. Honestly, very few players are giving new ideas or feedback here, and players aren't asking questions about the new system that I can answer, so for the most part there aren't specific comments that require a reply. Saying that, I definitely understand how you guys feel after reading these comments. Your dissatisfaction with the system put in place isn't being ignored, but right now there's no news on this system changing. If there IS some kind of change to the dragon system, I'll make sure you guys see it by creating a new announcement.

    Alright then, @Spacecats , I will think of as many things as I possibly can that would make the system more pleasant. Some of which could be used in tandem. Mix and match. I will try to make them fair for all parties, because the current situation is fair really only to BHS. Since this plan is here to stay, let's brainstorm on how to make it infinitely more tolerable.

    I do have a question though. For the rng boxes one saves up claws and scales for, what is the EXACT % of getting a dragon?


    - Add more ways to obtain the 50 dragon scales. There are many options. Make them purchasable with vanguard credits and pvp credits. Or Federation Bills. Make final bosses of dungeons drop a couple. Give like a 1/30 chance of the t1 bams dropping one, the t2 ones 1/20, and t3 ones 1/10. Maybe make them a reward for Queueing for a dungeon. All of these could be applied, or just a couple.

    - Decrease the amount of dragon scales needed. Just to 40 would make a pleasant difference, combined with the above stuff. If alone, maybe 30.

    - Make the farmable ones better. You don't have to bump the 1.5 up all the way to 2.0, BUT adding weaker versions of the other aspects, as well as making it 1.75 would be way more fair. That extra .25 and weaker movement speed buff etc. (which I think the normal version doesn't have) would make these seem SO much more worth it, while keeping the cash shop ones still there for the hardcore, as they'd still have a leg up. Still a difference, but one I for one would be far less upset about.

    - IIRC, witch each 50 dragon scales, you get 1 dragon claw, and ones needs 8 dragon claws to get another go. I suggest lowering the dragon claw number to 5, and making it DEFINITE to give you a dragon, would be a lot more reasonable, while still making us farm a lot. A cap on the farming would be a godsend.

    - Let us choose which dragon to get! Even just doing so between iron and crimson would make MANY people happy.

    - Make it so either the claws and scales or the dragons themselves are bankable. They don't need to be tradeable, but AT LEAST make them bankable so healer mains can get them with their alts, like healers often have to do for farming, to my understanding.

    -You said you wanted to reward veteran players, but was it because you weren't sure how? Maybe a scale could be awarded for each day you've played on that character, since it tells us down in the corner the total number of hours we've played on them (converted to days), or one (or two) for each month since we first signed up for Tera. Either way, the longer you've played, the more of a head start you are awarded. Personally, I'd go with a month since you signed up, since that is equally fair to casual and hardcore alike. :3 If server side and not just client side can keep track of it, that is. Oh, or it could be done via our account (I imagine that can keep track), and sent to us how emp stuff and code stuff are.

    - I think the above is all super reasonable for BHS, still enticing people to buy dragons, but at least making them REASONABLE to farm. One bonus thing would be to lower the price and/or increase the chance of getting the store royal dragons. Because as is, this is overkill. I don't find this option to be as reasonable for your end though, and as lovely as it would be, it would be asking too much. Now, flash sales of the boxes could be fun and beneficial. Just randomly have a big sale on royal dragon loot boxes for a couple hours from time to time. This'd make it easier for people to buy them, and hopefully lower their price on the broker. A permanent price drop so soon wouldn't be fair to those who already bought one for themselves, but random sales wouldn't be so bad.

    All in all, I think it would be fair enough for all parties to take 30 to a max of 45 days of hard farming (on a single char) to earn a dragon. Not ideal, but a lot better than it is now.

    If anyone would like to add to these, you may.
  • You've stared down a path you cannot turn back from, one step towards the pay to win category and all else follows. I for one expected better of you, all of you. This isn't BHS only and it's not Enmasse only. Now it's "a small .5% difference" but what's next? a purchasable perm attack speed buff? a 100% crit chance item? Durability for items and cash shop to repair? I've been in too many games where this small acceptance of p2w quickly became a flood. Tera was a good game, but it's dead, even if there's a playerbase left, the actual game is a corpse of what it once was. Happy Halloween, Tera's a dead body this year.
  • Tks Tera and all yours RNG...
    64 x Royal Crimson Dragonlord Box and no dragon...
    ill never buy a loot box again... make good use of my money...
  • rexoerexoe ✭✭✭
    its too late to make BHS change they can just shut down and move to another game ezz cause guess what those are not your accounts are from BHS so they can say [filtered] it shutdown tera for the lolz

    Tera will never change EME is forced by BHS (eme) they have little power on this game
    Find something that suits you if you dont like where tera is heading to But if you have the money and the time go ahead spend those thousands just remember tera can be shutdown at any time. Seems worst than a wow private server.
  • I dont even really care that the dragons are p2w anymore. I was looking forward to them being released in game because of the 290 speed, speed increasing buff for your party, and the significantly increased flight duration. I am disappointed beyond belief at this point though, because I simply have neither the patience nor computer power to spend 9+ days farming dragon scales that only have a slight chance of giving me a watered down version of what I want. That's not even taking into consideration that someone with particularly bad luck could spend hundreds of days trying to get their dragon. RNG should not be a factor in this at all.
  • TomRipleyTomRipley ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    I actually hope that very few people at all will grind for or buy the dragons, to show BHS their "clever" plans don't work out this time.

    If this is really the precedent of more p2w elements to come, I'll probably quit Tera for good in the long run anyway. I could probably afford such items from the broker (unless not tradable, who knows?), but the question then would be if I want to continue playing a game that drives away f2p players and limits the population this way...
  • I've been playing TERA since it went f2p (moved to NA 1.5 years back) and this is the first time I'm seriously considering quitting.

    -Straight up p2w. While the amount is still limited, there's now an option to increase your effectiveness through real money and only that. If this wasn't bad enough, it sets a really worrying precedent for the future even if the decision does get reconsidered.

    -The amount of grind required for the free versions is too high and the most frustrating kind of RNG too. Some grind is acceptable in a f2p. "Sure, you can get it free if you grind for 20 hours! Or you could pay a dollar for it". There's a limit when the grind gets too high to be considered acceptable. Combine it with the gear treadmill this kind of game tends to be and the motivation is already at rock bottom.

    - People have been proven to stick with a game longer if they have friends playing. This seems like a forced push to increase the player retention. Good luck clearing those dungeons without a guild. IM lottery rarely works after the mid-tier dungeons.

    -What was promised and what was delivered were different. This has been debated in the first few pages so I'll omit it. Whatever the reason, all of them are worrying at best.
  • ShikineShikine ✭✭✭✭
    Not a long video:
    Top 5 MMO failures - hype and fail

    1. Archage - due to introducing p2w cash shop items
    2. Age of Conan - poor optimization, buggy featues, no interesting end-game
    3. Everquest next - hyped then not developed/released game
    4. Warhammer online - bugs, too fast development resulting more bugs
    5. Black Desert Online - publisher ruined the game environment due to their greed, p2w/advantage item introduction

    I don't want TERA on that list :(
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