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Question about the Lancer? (Answered, thank you!)

edited November 2016 in PvE Discussion
So, I've been tanking lancer for some time now, and only after I believe... Spellbound? Did I begin to scoot back every so often when I'm blocking. It only happens maybe 30% of the time, but if I'd rather stay in one single position against a boss, it's a bit difficult and nervewracking when you're being pushed back from their attacks for some reason. Is there a reason that this happens, a bug, or am I just crazy and this has been happening for some time now?

Comments

  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    Some boss attacks will push you back even if you're blocking.
  • NikuroTegaNikuroTega ✭✭✭✭
    Leucosias wrote: »
    So, I've been tanking lancer for some time now, and only after I believe... Spellbound? Did I begin to scoot back every so often when I'm blocking. It only happens maybe 30% of the time, but if I'd rather stay in one single position against a boss, it's a bit difficult and nervewracking when you're being pushed back from their attacks for some reason. Is there a reason that this happens, a bug, or am I just crazy and this has been happening for some time now?

    There are certain attack mechanics from the new dungeon bosses that push back or aren't blockable.

    Pre-patch, if you blocked after a foward-moving attack animation of a boss, you'd get pushed back in most cases.
  • Okay, thank you so much! That's all I wanted to know!
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    It's mostly in HM versions, NM versions if these attacks won't move you unless you desync. It was like this last patch for SS last patch for the first boss.
  • mollyyamollyya ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    Challenge shout now gives you immunity to push backs? Wait what a joke. Can anyone tell me which specific push back attacks that can be counteracted by this effect?
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    mollyya wrote: »
    Challenge shout now gives you immunity to push backs? Wait what a joke. Can anyone tell me which specific push back attacks that can be counteracted by this effect?
    In demokron factory, that crab would occasionally push you back if you weren't blocking from just the right position. But with challenging shout up, you'd never budge ever. There're other areas, like I enjoy using it on the first boss in RM, because sometimes he can get a bit weird when I don't (like he'll swipe and very rarely end up moving past me somehow, but with challenging shout he doesn't budge; it's weird) but that's all I can recall.

    It's kind of jarring when you get pushed back while still having challenging shout up though. Like ... That horse in Lillith's Keep Hard Mode has a fire charge. Even if you block it with challenging shout up, it knocks you back. Same with the first boss of Shadow Sanguinary Hard Mode. He'll do that thing where he charges at you while whacking with his club, and it knocks you back. Also in Sky Cruiser Hard mode, with the second boss I believe this is also a thing just like with the aforementioned Shadow Sanguinary lookalike.
  • feazesherofeazeshero ✭✭✭
    edited November 2016
    The 1st boss in rmnm/rmhm get's under because you're either too far in close under or not get your block up in time. Same logic applies at other bosses; where if you block too early or too late, you can get pushed back. But you will never get pushed back as long as block up properly; only exception is that some bosses have certain attacks that will push no matter what.

    The crab boss in DF never push as long as the block is timed right. The 2nd boss's forward charge in schm can be stopped if timing block properly as well; but in sshm 1st boss, that forward charge will push back no matter what. The horse boss in LKHM; well there is nothing can be done about that. Also same for high tier IOD bams like the giant where it'll push when it tries to trample walk.

    And speaking of challenge shout, lancer should be using this if they need to re-gain aggro after their or someone else's death due to aggro reset or trying to aggro a group of mobs as sometimes mobs aggro is very buggy at times. I have no comment on the endurance gain on challenge shout since glyph points are too high for glyph and lancers already have enough defense. Most bosses have flat damage mechanics also so it don't matter how much endurance is being added. Plus if people are using challenge shout, they have to put points for casting speed and you already lose out on critical points where putting them elsewhere is more important imo.
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    feazeshero wrote: »
    The crab boss in DF never push as long as the block is timed right. The 2nd boss's forward charge in schm can be stopped if timing block properly as well; but in sshm 1st boss, that forward charge will push back no matter what. The horse boss in LKHM; well there is nothing can be done about that. Also same for high tier IOD bams like the giant where it'll push when it tries to trample walk.

    Regarding DF's crab, I think it has less to do with timing and more to do with positioning. If you're placed awkwardly in front of the boss (i.e. really close in or very far away), then it'll trample right over you when it does that one move where it kinda charges forward while swinging its pincers around. But with challenging shout up, you could block in the weirdest way possible and still keep it motionless. Hell, there are times when I'm blocking in that place and the "block success!" thing doesn't even come up, and the crab just goes right through me. Weird stuff like that never really happens when I have my shout up, so I enjoy using it for that added security. You don't even have to glyph it; I don't, and I've managed to find times to use it in every dungeon this patch, so I don't think the glyph thing is worth worrying about too much.

    I've only done SCHM 3 times so far, but I have never been able to keep the second boss still when he does the swing-charge. I started to assume he was like LKHM's horse or SSHM's pahoegar in that regard. When he turns around to target another player, do you just backstep in front of him again, press block, and then hope he doesn't clip past your block and totally obliterate you with his move?
    feazeshero wrote: »
    And speaking of challenge shout, lancer should be using this if they need to re-gain aggro after their or someone else's death due to aggro reset or trying to aggro a group of mobs as sometimes mobs aggro is very buggy at times. I have no comment on the endurance gain on challenge shout since glyph points are too high for glyph and lancers already have enough defense. Most bosses have flat damage mechanics also so it don't matter how much endurance is being added. Plus if people are using challenge shout, they have to put points for casting speed and you already lose out on critical points where putting them elsewhere is more important imo.

    That's ironic because challenging shout is the last skill I'd ever use for regaining threat. There've been times where I've tried it after people died, and it rarely worked because while I'm shouting others are actually attacking instead, and so even if threat comes back to me for a brief moment, a good crit from a competent dps rips it away. I've found that when people are dying a lot, it's best to just keep attacking, especially with attacks that are glyphed for generating aggro, because then once I get aggro back it doesn't go away immediately afterwards.
  • voidy wrote: »
    feazeshero wrote: »
    The crab boss in DF never push as long as the block is timed right. The 2nd boss's forward charge in schm can be stopped if timing block properly as well; but in sshm 1st boss, that forward charge will push back no matter what. The horse boss in LKHM; well there is nothing can be done about that. Also same for high tier IOD bams like the giant where it'll push when it tries to trample walk.

    Regarding DF's crab, I think it has less to do with timing and more to do with positioning. If you're placed awkwardly in front of the boss (i.e. really close in or very far away), then it'll trample right over you when it does that one move where it kinda charges forward while swinging its pincers around. But with challenging shout up, you could block in the weirdest way possible and still keep it motionless. [filtered], there are times when I'm blocking in that place and the "block success!" thing doesn't even come up, and the crab just goes right through me. Weird stuff like that never really happens when I have my shout up, so I enjoy using it for that added security. You don't even have to glyph it; I don't, and I've managed to find times to use it in every dungeon this patch, so I don't think the glyph thing is worth worrying about too much.

    I've only done SCHM 3 times so far, but I have never been able to keep the second boss still when he does the swing-charge. I started to assume he was like LKHM's horse or SSHM's pahoegar in that regard. When he turns around to target another player, do you just backstep in front of him again, press block, and then hope he doesn't clip past your block and totally obliterate you with his move?
    feazeshero wrote: »
    And speaking of challenge shout, lancer should be using this if they need to re-gain aggro after their or someone else's death due to aggro reset or trying to aggro a group of mobs as sometimes mobs aggro is very buggy at times. I have no comment on the endurance gain on challenge shout since glyph points are too high for glyph and lancers already have enough defense. Most bosses have flat damage mechanics also so it don't matter how much endurance is being added. Plus if people are using challenge shout, they have to put points for casting speed and you already lose out on critical points where putting them elsewhere is more important imo.

    That's ironic because challenging shout is the last skill I'd ever use for regaining threat. There've been times where I've tried it after people died, and it rarely worked because while I'm shouting others are actually attacking instead, and so even if threat comes back to me for a brief moment, a good crit from a competent dps rips it away. I've found that when people are dying a lot, it's best to just keep attacking, especially with attacks that are glyphed for generating aggro, because then once I get aggro back it doesn't go away immediately afterwards.

    Yeah I know what you mean about the crab when it tries to trample. I had it do it to me few times but it never pushed me most times because I was already in position and had my block up in time. But there were times where it went because I didn't get there in time (such as if a dps or someone rushes in to get a headstart, positioning takes time for that boss).

    For the schm 2nd boss, the block has to be up by within ~.5 seconds or something like that before he does the charge. I'm not sure how to explain it but it all comes with practice. Sometimes you can back step if your behind him and if get to the front of him in time and get block up, it will prevent him from moving. But there are times where he will still move if can't get to it in time. But yeah sshm 1st boss and lkhm horse boss, they both will push on one of their attacks that push no matter what.

    Yeah it's tough to get aggro back after people die. It's even worse when multiple people keep dying over and ove. And yes I agree where using damage skills help get aggro easier than using shout. Shield barrage/counter and other skills help get aggro back.
  • I've found that challenging shout is useless unless regaining aggro from mobs or, although I haven't tried it yet, would be useful for the glyph that makes you immune to pushback. Most guildies agree.

    Thanks everyone for your input!
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