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Bringing back the leveling experience?

Just a quick question, I thought I saw a post from one of the GM's about improving the leveling experience with an upcoming patch. I remember back in the day you actually had to try harder to get a character to max level. I'd be nice if there was a sense of level progression within the game aside from ilvl, because as it stands I feel it's far to easy to reach max level.

Comments

  • 66ECX7NAN766ECX7NAN7 ✭✭✭✭
    I think Korean patch notes said they will increase the hp of dungeon bosses and slightly increase their attack speed, and also increase experience awarded. So it won't take longer to level, but hopefully new players will be better prepared for lvl 65 dungeons.
  • DeadXDeadX ✭✭✭
    back in the day you really didn't have to try harder. main quests with a sprinkling of side quests or instances was enough to get you to max fast. if you preferred grinding bams were worth more though took longer to kill. the major changes that made leveling so ridiculously easy were avatar weapons, various instance boss nerfs, instance buffs and bam nerfs. along with the boost to earned xp from main quests.
  • narkfestmojonarkfestmojo ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    I levelled my first character in 2012; granted I was a noob, but it took me 10 days to get to 60.
    how long is it now, a day... day and a half and you can just ignore the story completely.

    I felt an enormous sense of accomplishment when I reached 60, I don't think recent players reaching 65 in a day would feel the same thing.
  • DeadX wrote: »
    back in the day you really didn't have to try harder. main quests with a sprinkling of side quests or instances was enough to get you to max fast. if you preferred grinding bams were worth more though took longer to kill. the major changes that made leveling so ridiculously easy were avatar weapons, various instance boss nerfs, instance buffs and bam nerfs. along with the boost to earned xp from main quests.

    While I do think they took it too far, and do think it makes sense to tone it down a bit, some of the later levels from ~45-58 were a pretty abysmal grind back in the day. I know a lot of people who just gave up during the leveling process because it was just dull, and I know I lost a lot of my will during that stretch many times as an alt-a-holic. The problem is that they never really fixed the "dull" aspect of leveling and instead just made it faster and easier... which is really just a bandaid. Increasing the XP earned from battlegrounds and dungeons (and the many XP boost systems) was another sort of placeholder to mask the fact that open world questing was/is dull. Newer areas are a bit more focused, which reduces travel time and increases the ratio of time spent in combat, and I've found that to generally be an improvement, but a whole lot of the world still needs reworking.

    So I guess I would say that leveling in TERA has always been one of the game's weaker points, despite the combat itself being fun. I don't think they've ever actually found the right balance. Back in the day when it was still feasible to create BAM parties in the open world, that was probably about as close as they've gotten, IMO, but clearly that can't last once your players have generally leveled past those areas without a good gear sync system. It sort of shows that they tried to awkwardly transition from grind-based progression (RO-style) to a quest-based progression (WoW-style) and never quite nailed it back in the day.
  • DeadXDeadX ✭✭✭
    While I do think they took it too far, and do think it makes sense to tone it down a bit, some of the later levels from ~45-58 were a pretty abysmal grind back in the day. I know a lot of people who just gave up during the leveling process because it was just dull, and I know I lost a lot of my will during that stretch many times as an alt-a-holic. The problem is that they never really fixed the "dull" aspect of leveling and instead just made it faster and easier... which is really just a bandaid. Increasing the XP earned from battlegrounds and dungeons (and the many XP boost systems) was another sort of placeholder to mask the fact that open world questing was/is dull. Newer areas are a bit more focused, which reduces travel time and increases the ratio of time spent in combat, and I've found that to generally be an improvement, but a whole lot of the world still needs reworking.

    So I guess I would say that leveling in TERA has always been one of the game's weaker points, despite the combat itself being fun. I don't think they've ever actually found the right balance. Back in the day when it was still feasible to create BAM parties in the open world, that was probably about as close as they've gotten, IMO, but clearly that can't last once your players have generally leveled past those areas without a good gear sync system. It sort of shows that they tried to awkwardly transition from grind-based progression (RO-style) to a quest-based progression (WoW-style) and never quite nailed it back in the day.

    it was never grind based, some people chose that path though*. there's probably still old guides around on how to grind in old tera without touching quests. though you might consider the quests themselves grindy as despite being in different locations they tended to be all the same. collect these, kill those, go to this instance and slaughter everything that moves (some stuff that doesn't for good measure) later, rinse repeat...much the same as it is now. bam nerf since their xp alo got nerfed wasn't a big deal. instance buffs and nerfs to bosses/mobs also not a big deal...what really kicked it all in the teeth was the avatar weapons along with the xp buffs to main quests and the 'streamlining' of quests and quest areas.

    not complaining at all about some of that streamlining...escort quests like seravy tended to suck. way back he walked as slow as molasses. 58-60 tended to be the massive slow down point, still is kind of. 45-58 was annoying on some classes whose damage output didn't scale well in those level ranges....like archers....and val elenium quests tended to be difficult for all.

    avatar weapons changed all that more than anything else. all in all it helped BHS somewhat succeed in making the game more accessible. fewer players give up early compared to old tera which only really became an issue after f2p. after all when you pay for something up front you tend to stick with it for longer than if it was free. f2p transition so many newbs wouldn't even bother getting to 20 :(

    "too hard, can't stop dying, where do you get pots, warriors suck," etc. steep learning curve for players who may have never experienced tera's combat style. that turnover was improved by changes that many didn't like...the ones who took the time to learn the game and classes/mobs.

    everything considered, it helped the game.

    *early on, quite a few considered tera an 'asian grinder' so instantly looked to grinding mobs as the main source of xp as opposed to quests.
  • Yeah, when I was referring to it being grindy, it wasn't "kill tons of mobs until you level" original RO-style, but I was mostly referring to the way they implemented the quest system. At the higher levels, the side-quests gave (give -- they're still there but hidden) a pittance of XP compared to what you needed to level up, and the amount they asked you to do (and the time it took) was much longer. So going from some level in the mid-50s to the next level was just... boring. Now it's still pretty boring, but at least it doesn't take as long -- which is faint praise indeed. They also present you some easy options in vanguard to vary it up if you get bored of what you're doing, which overall is good.

    In the end, yeah, I think what's needed is a good compromise. Make the leveling system interesting and varied, reduce the time spent travelling and doing pointless busywork, spend more time enjoying the combat system, and give a sense like you're making regular progress towards the next goal. Given that the BAMs and avatar weapons are the way they are now, I'd like to see them integrate them more into the main quests so you can have some challenging fights. Making the dungeons a bit more challenging so that it requires a team again is also probably a good move. And yeah, although I want them to continue to make use of the huge open world, they need to use it more efficiently so you don't feel like you're wasting time (even today, if you do the main story quests from 22 to 60, the bulk of your time is travel time).

    Anyway, I don't have high hopes that they'll actually revamp all the things, but some of the small moves they're doing don't seem entirely bad to me on the surface. We'll see when we get it.
  • I want them to return open world levelling to EXACTLY as it was when the game was pay to play.
    No matter what they have tried since it hasn't been as good.

    For people who think its too slow and want to reach endgame as fast as possible - give them a "fast track" option

    Maybe give people who stick through the slow levelling option all the way a special achievement title and exclusive mount.
  • KillstyleKillstyle ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    Back before it went F2P and maybe sometime, unsure of how long, after it went F2P there was no avatar weapons, BAM's actual required a group or if you were good you could solo them but it took a long time (much, much longer then it does now. Say 5 mins or more but can't remember) and there were 2 leveling walls. One was I think in the mid 40's range and the other was early 50's range. And you could do ALL the quests your character could aquire and still you had to run dungeons at least 5 times or more just to get out of that one level. It took forever. I've been gone a while so not sure if it's easier to level, though I have played low level characters and noticed I get maybe one shot at a dungeon before I out level it and that use to not happen so something definitely has changed. Just hope those leveling walls are gone cause those were rough.

    **Forgot to mention that I have done only the story quests and an occasional Vanguard (green !) quest on the low level characters I've played since coming back. My Mystic is now level 45ish from doing only the above mentioned quests and I have soloed ALL the dungeons so far. Game is far, far easier and faster to level then when I use to play.**
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    For people who think its too slow and want to reach endgame as fast as possible - give them a "fast track" option

    They have an option and is called "Level 60 scroll".
  • ArdireArdire ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    I want them to return open world levelling to EXACTLY as it was when the game was pay to play.
    No matter what they have tried since it hasn't been as good.

    For people who think its too slow and want to reach endgame as fast as possible - give them a "fast track" option

    Maybe give people who stick through the slow levelling option all the way a special achievement title and exclusive mount.

    one of the worst ideas i've ever heard, no one liked how slow, tedious and painful leveling was back then. you think you have a tank and healer shortage now? you'd definitely have one then-- leveling a healer back then was pure torture. not enjoyable whatsoever, tera's combat can only keep you entertained through monotony for so long.

    there's a reason people put effort into finding the best grinding spots, finding out how to abuse the dragoons and respawning minions for decent exp gain and later on devans in the same area.

    i agree that leveling the way it is right now is a joke, considering you just afk in velika and instance match for dungeons (makes me wonder how level 60 scrolls are profitable at all), but going back to leveling during p2p days is even worse. tera isn't a Main Character game, this game encourages you to have alts and plenty of them, which makes the leveling a very noticeable weak point-- there's no variety after your first time, you just want it done with.

    now if tera was actually creative and say... had a different leveling story and progression for each race or something, then maybe i'd be more inclined to agree.

    (no i wouldn't, level 60 scrolls would inflate like crazy just for people wanting healer alts)
  • Leveling teach u nothing and next leveling changes with buff high bam hp will be just torture.
  • Ardire wrote: »
    I want them to return open world levelling to EXACTLY as it was when the game was pay to play.
    No matter what they have tried since it hasn't been as good.

    For people who think its too slow and want to reach endgame as fast as possible - give them a "fast track" option

    Maybe give people who stick through the slow levelling option all the way a special achievement title and exclusive mount.

    one of the worst ideas i've ever heard, no one liked how slow, tedious and painful leveling was back then. you think you have a tank and healer shortage now? you'd definitely have one then-- leveling a healer back then was pure torture. not enjoyable whatsoever, tera's combat can only keep you entertained through monotony for so long
    You say no-one liked how slow it was. But that's not true as I did. Just because you didn't doesn't mean no one did.
    MMOs can be divided into 2 extreme types of players
    1. Those who like levelling and find endgame pointless
    2. Those who like endgame and find levelling pointless.

    Obviously most people are somewhere in between, but you are never going to make a single xp rate that will please everyone

    So if you have a fast track path (for those who just want to get to endgame as fast as possible) and a hardcore path (for those who enjoy the open world levelling) you will please more people.
  • edited February 2017
    Ardire wrote: »
    I want them to return open world levelling to EXACTLY as it was when the game was pay to play.
    No matter what they have tried since it hasn't been as good.

    For people who think its too slow and want to reach endgame as fast as possible - give them a "fast track" option

    Maybe give people who stick through the slow levelling option all the way a special achievement title and exclusive mount.

    one of the worst ideas i've ever heard, no one liked how slow, tedious and painful leveling was back then. you think you have a tank and healer shortage now? you'd definitely have one then-- leveling a healer back then was pure torture. not enjoyable whatsoever, tera's combat can only keep you entertained through monotony for so long
    You say no-one liked how slow it was. But that's not true as I did. Just because you didn't doesn't mean no one did.
    MMOs can be divided into 2 extreme types of players
    1. Those who like levelling and find endgame pointless
    2. Those who like endgame and find levelling pointless.

    Obviously most people are somewhere in between, but you are never going to make a single xp rate that will please everyone

    So if you have a fast track path (for those who just want to get to endgame as fast as possible) and a hardcore path (for those who enjoy the open world levelling) you will please more people.

    I'm a person who likes leveling a lot, but the problem is that leveling in TERA isn't very engaging, either now or at launch. So I don't think it's a matter of a "fast path" or a "slow path" (making leveling faster was just a way to mask the monotony). It's to make leveling more fun for everyone so they want to do it. (Part of that, as Killstyle mentioned, would be to remove/smooth over the leveling walls so the whole thing feels more progressive. I also think part of that is reducing time wasted to go from point A to B, more varied quests/encounters/combat, etc.)

    Technically speaking, people do have most of a "hardcore path" today -- avoid avatar weapons, avoid XP boosts, avoid battlegrounds, avoid XP-boosted red quests, etc. They'll also soon be making dungeons harder again so that soloing dungeons won't be a cakewalk. I've said before that I'd also like to see them re-introduce some additional BAMs that have the original tuning into the world map for people who want to try them. But even with all this in place, I don't think it will make things more fun, and I don't think most people will elect to choose that "hardcore option". My general impression is that a lot of people pining for "hardcore modes" (not necessarily you personally) don't just want to challenge themselves, but they want the recognition for rising to the challenge. If everyone else takes the easy path, I think most "hardcore" people will lose interest (because then it's just them wasting their time).
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