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"Torrent is a filler skill"

PastelGothPastelGoth
in PvE Discussion
So I'm in the process of trying to teach my boyfriend how to tank with brawler (despite never playing it, seems straight forward)
I find brawler to be a stupid tanking class like: "oh how do we fix the tanking shortage...? oh i know lets take our new class and give it a taunt"
I gave my boyfriend an agro crystal but he still had trouble. So being the healer at this current time I noticed the same warrior from the same run we did just moments ago.
So I asked him "are you using Torrent of Blows?" and he said yes...
I then proceeded to tell him he shouldn't use it as he isn't the tank. He then tried to tell me that "torrent is a filler skill"
Like do you not read tool tips??? Torrent isn't a filler skill at all it literally says "generates agro"
I've been warrior tanking on and off for like 4 years... people just make me laugh...
He then went on to say my NEWLY beginning boyfriend was a trash brawler and had to do more dps and he claimed he did take agro 4 times without it (which i doubt).

TL;DR - read your [filtered] tooltips... torrent isn't a filler skill for dpsing...
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Comments

  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    Neither of you can control what others do, but you two can control what each of you do. No amount of complaining will stop said person from using the ability, however, your boyfriend can obviously improve their dps. Brawler is very dependent on having some damage to maintain aggro. This means it's actually very possible he did take aggro even without using the ability anyways.

    Also, all tanks have a taunt, not just Brawler.
  • PastelGothPastelGoth ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    I'm well aware all all tanks have taunts... I've played every one of them except brawler
    and yeah... I don't doubt that either.. but it's hard to teach when there's only 1 guide and you have no experience
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    Depending on which guide you're referring to, it's probably still relevant if it talks about the basics of the class. Brawler's nerfs were just flat damage reductions mostly, so play style hasn't changed. All that really varies is maintaining Growing Fury as that's different per boss. He's new, so it's expected he may not do well anyways, he'll get better with more experience.
  • kknaexkknaex ✭✭
    Playing an op recent revamped class is not something he should be proud of. LOL
  • msoltysplmsoltyspl ✭✭✭
    Keep in mind that ToB now is also OP -50%+block+BD chain at the same time. Which has interesting uses even in DPS scenarios - for example why move away from RMHM's tail (undodgable) when you can just block it with ToB.
  • SatchinSatchin ✭✭
    Torrent of blows now does respectable damage. The only reason you wouldn't want to use it is it's lack of edge generation which doesn't matter pre lv60.

    If you experienced this while leveling you shouldn't have had a problem either way, just guide your bf to get avatar weapon, hand him consumables, wear wrathful, focused, pounding and threat and literally just spam skills off CD. This is the standard, you should know that and teach him. He should literally face roll everything. With natural brawler aggro bonus and threat, the warrior will have to deal around twice his damage to steal aggro.

    If it's after 65, why are you expecting a new brawler to be able to tank anything at all? It doesn't work that way.

    You also have to remember that random people aren't there to train new tanks.

    Generally the only time you should cry out to new warriors is if they use battle cry mid fight for no good reason because it has the attribute of stealing aggro for 5 seconds like every tank class has.
  • StevenAnthonyStevenAnthony ✭✭✭✭
    you must be learns how agroo works , agroo formula change , but dont hows works.

    Treatening niveots are no magic pills. you agroo generation grow up, but if you still dont know what you do, you dont able retains agroo

    you dont need do the top dps in a party for hold agroo in the party. but tanks need do it.

    now shouts from lancer/warrior/bersekers gave 5 seconds perma agroo ( more usefull when agroo reset )
  • ILikeTeddyBearsILikeTeddyBears ✭✭✭
    Legerrarwen wrote: »
    Honestly at this point brawlers just suck at tanking, since they lose aggro if someone is double their DPS and I think that's with an aggro crystal on making them the worst tanks at holding aggro right now. Since I have seen lancers hold vs 10 times their DPS, literally 5% vs someone doing 50%, and while warriors aren't a lot better compared to brawlers it seems something like 2.5-3 times their dps. So if you are having trouble on brawler only option is to get better at the class (assuming you haven't read any guides or gear setups) or if that's not possible get better gear to upgrade your dps.

    Yeah. I used to be able to hold aggro on my lancer doing 80k/s vs. a sorc doing like 1.8m/s.
  • PastelGothPastelGoth ✭✭
    edited February 2017
    That's why now hes just sick of brawler, he likes how the class operates but he hates how it loses agro so easily..
    I don't know much about the agro changes either since I've played on and off but I know how easily tank with warrior and its the only thing I can tank with (being from Australia and having you do it with like 250-400 ping). Torrent I've always used off CD, cause the less I have to shout the better. But DPS I wouldn't even think about it, (since the changes only if i really needed to... and there's other ways to avoid damage anyway) because after playing for 4 years I know what this does... like this is end game [filtered] that can get you kicked... unless you're doing like millions within million of crit damage (and you're in assault stance, or just any high dps class) it wouldn't be a problem.
    It's like with mystics (this is why I run healer myself) using their thrall of protection... I can't train my friends and give them feedback on if they take/hold agro since it takes away my visual representation too... Like you're literally taking a role away from a tank (if there is one)
  • JBGamingJBGaming ✭✭✭
    edited February 2017
    @PastelGoth

    I would refer him to this guide.
    http://www.essentialmana.com/brawler-pve-guide/
    It is the most recent so far I have come across. I haven't played brawler to know anything about it but hope that helps. As a lancer I have to use every skill that creates agro. By doing so that helps me hold it.
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Regarding that problem. I find that in many newer brawlers, they rely on Punch and counter way too much. Your BF may be under the same problem.

    The secret is to play the class similar to how you would play a sorc, never ever use your basic attack unless completely necessary. Use automatic block frames and counterpunch whenever possible. Block right before it hits, because perfect block gives you lots of advantages. You shouldnt lose aggro at all with the correct setup even if a guy is two avatar gears above you.

    Also sponsor battle solutions xD (prime ones). Many levelling alts bring them esp if they are elite and they will rip off most tank's aggro anyway.

    From experience I only lose aggro on the following situations:

    1) I forgot to switch out from pvp set

    2) I am trying to reposition the boss but the dps still went ham on it.
  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭
    PastelGoth wrote: »
    That's why now hes just sick of brawler, he likes how the class operates but he hates how it loses agro so easily..
    I don't know much about the agro changes either since I've played on and off but I know how easily tank with warrior and its the only thing I can tank with (being from Australia and having you do it with like 250-400 ping). Torrent I've always used off CD, cause the less I have to shout the better. But DPS I wouldn't even think about it, (since the changes only if i really needed to... and there's other ways to avoid damage anyway) because after playing for 4 years I know what this does... like this is end game [filtered] that can get you kicked... unless you're doing like millions within million of crit damage (and you're in assault stance, or just any high dps class) it wouldn't be a problem.
    It's like with mystics (this is why I run healer myself) using their thrall of protection... I can't train my friends and give them feedback on if they take/hold agro since it takes away my visual representation too... Like you're literally taking a role away from a tank (if there is one)

    you dont seem to understand how useful torrent is as a dps say in rmnm/hm, no one will kick you for using torrent if they notice it as they would realize from the given situation that you know what you are doing, torrent atm is basically the god tier of block skills and the dps you gain by using torrent and not having to move and being able to continue dpsing far out weighs moving away from the boss and then moving back towards it.
  • sanj66sanj66 ✭✭✭✭
    aeee98 wrote: »
    Regarding that problem. I find that in many newer brawlers, they rely on Punch and counter way too much. Your BF may be under the same problem.

    The secret is to play the class similar to how you would play a sorc, never ever use your basic attack unless completely necessary. Use automatic block frames and counterpunch whenever possible. Block right before it hits, because perfect block gives you lots of advantages. You shouldnt lose aggro at all with the correct setup even if a guy is two avatar gears above you.

    Also sponsor battle solutions xD (prime ones). Many levelling alts bring them esp if they are elite and they will rip off most tank's aggro anyway.

    From experience I only lose aggro on the following situations:

    1) I forgot to switch out from pvp set

    2) I am trying to reposition the boss but the dps still went ham on it.

    they are talking about end game not leveling, atm basically a brawler without gf will not be able to hold aggro vs most of the dps classes, even with matching gear + gf i can steal aggro on my warrior and yes pre buff slayer from some brawlers. some times i dont even use my brooch cuz if the boss spins cuz i steal aggro i will lose more dps than if i poped it and lets say got one back crit scythe off before it spun around.
  • MagraalMagraal ✭✭✭
    Some good news for him is that soon (I'm not sure if we're getting it with the Lunar Dancer or the new dungeons), Brawlers will have no cooldown on Growing Fury and the cooldown reduction glyph will be changed to 40% more aggro while in effect. This should be a massive quality of life change especially for newer brawlers who struggle to hold aggro at present.
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    sanj66 wrote: »
    aeee98 wrote: »
    Regarding that problem. I find that in many newer brawlers, they rely on Punch and counter way too much. Your BF may be under the same problem.

    The secret is to play the class similar to how you would play a sorc, never ever use your basic attack unless completely necessary. Use automatic block frames and counterpunch whenever possible. Block right before it hits, because perfect block gives you lots of advantages. You shouldnt lose aggro at all with the correct setup even if a guy is two avatar gears above you.

    Also sponsor battle solutions xD (prime ones). Many levelling alts bring them esp if they are elite and they will rip off most tank's aggro anyway.

    From experience I only lose aggro on the following situations:

    1) I forgot to switch out from pvp set

    2) I am trying to reposition the boss but the dps still went ham on it.

    they are talking about end game not leveling, atm basically a brawler without gf will not be able to hold aggro vs most of the dps classes, even with matching gear + gf i can steal aggro on my warrior and yes pre buff slayer from some brawlers. some times i dont even use my brooch cuz if the boss spins cuz i steal aggro i will lose more dps than if i poped it and lets say got one back crit scythe off before it spun around.

    To be very honest, it doesn't matter if they GF or not (it is best they actually do though), brawlers actually have to use a threatening and shout at start to ensure aggro is generated. Most basic/mid tier dungeons allow for a small window for aggro to be lost, which seems to be the problem OP's BF is facing. And they have to actually know that when people brooch, they have to also brooch to maintain the aggro output. With just that, you can average 800k-900k dps on +12 guile brawler assuming all members are competent and are in +12 guile, which is more than enough to hold aggro against 99.9% of players. The problem here is most brawlers actually don't pop consumables to complement the consumables of the highest dps thinking they are only tanks, which is why most tanks you see even in endgame lose aggro very fast even if you don't brooch. Regardless, I find your point valid because whenever I see a brawler in LFG/IMS gearing up as a dps/healer, they sometimes lose aggro to even slayers in slaughter. Just my two cents that it is probably a skill issue rather than an actual problem.

    I know from my own perspective I use threatening whenever I see someone that could potentially rip aggro from me (in IMS that is unsurprisingly rare, but when you go into LFG and stuff it is very common) and I will dare say I haven't lost aggro minus the points where I actually lag on top of the previous points.
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