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State of the Reaper
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Comments
first off npcpak is wrong, plain and simple there is no opinion about an actual dps tier, first off if you make a list it should be based on all classes played at the same level of skill per class, you cant compare a low skill [filtered] ms warrior vs a high skill low ping archer, there must be some comparative baseline to build such a list, also as stated by others there is a clear cut dps tier and there always has been, and there always has been fotm classes. first off idk what kind of question is your op, obviously they are a dps class, what do they bring to a party? dps obviously, i dont see you asking what does a sorc or archer or gunner bring to the party and they have no skills that benefit party members unlike lets say warrior that still has combative or a zerk that for some odd reason use punishing strike to debuff a bosses endurance. so why ask what does a reaper bring? also why would you use a spiteful dyad? it only affects ranged skills and reapers have melee range skills and actually should be played melee range, jsut like a warrior/slayer/zerk, heck even sorc and archer play melee range. every single dps class except the ranged ones use basically the same crystal setup or can use the same crystal set up, as long as you arent ranged you will always use bitter, savage and focused, some classes swap the 4th slot between pounding/carving/forceful.
I know someone based their opinion on the dps order of the classes but currently warrior/archer are at the top of the dps rankings and brawler is not that high. I'd recommend partying up with a skilled warrior or archer, and comparing it against other classes and see the results. I know my information because on a regular basis I tank against high dps parties (like rmhm) and warrior/archers are always on top. Warrior is currently godly at the moment. Or in my guildie's words, "so broken". Also sorcerers are much higher than gunners.
About redstrike's guide and probably almost any tank/dps guide will show different crystal setups with mystic/priest because there are situations where you may only run with either priest, mystic or mystic + priest comps. With solo priest, they recommend using carving for the extra crit chance because mystic (which provides crit aura) is not in the party and thus having less crit factor. With mystic you get the extra crit, so they recommend not using carving and instead use pounding. For ex: if you have a mystic/priest in party together, it makes sense to stack more power and using pounding instead of carving. It is a significant dps increase overall because of the extra power and crit chance is already there from mystic. The rest of it depends on how good your party is (utilizing debuffs/buffs, mystic staying in range, etc). Really have to experience different setups to get an idea.
Usually the highly skilled tier players rarely come to the forums to share what works for them. If they did, it may just be about certain things in general but won't go in detail. IMO, that's why the guides out there on essentialmana are more of a "to give an idea, baseline" kind of thing and then the player has to experience things themselves to figure out. I can agree some of the guides are not up to date at the moment, like the lancer guide for example. Has it helped me in the past? It has but I built on it by trying different things since I know some things may not update over time and a lot of it is experiencing. I can't remember when was the last time I looked at the guide though.
Sustained dps means constant but """low""" damage per second, unlike zerk/archer/sorc that are burst dps and can give you 8mil crits every 2-3 secs. Max crit you can get from reaper is 5mil on sunstrike (or whatever the name), again from my experience.
As for their contribute to the party, they may be not that good in dire situations where you need a lot of dps in a short period of time (1st boss in SS for example) where you may prefer burst dps, also, heh... there are better sustained dps, like ninja or warrior, so... it's hard to say why you should choose reaper instead of another dps, maybe they'll get an update sooner or later but for now it's just hard to justify, and it's a pity bc it's a cool class if played correctly.
Yeah, a good and skilled reaper is OP, but that goes for every class and between an average archer and an average reaper, I'd choose the archer...
This pretentious nonsense was completely unnecessary. DPS is something you can measure, either directly or through something like clear times. The line "A creator of the game can tell facts, a player can only give opinions." is particularly stupid, because game developers are generally less knowledgeable about high level play than the top players. It's common for devs to be factually wrong about something that the players know because most devs don't play their games seriously.
You can judge how much damage a class does by simply looking at the results they get. Barring some extreme outlier like slayer's UOHS hitting for 20+million or someone running 100% power and no crit on a class that isn't showered in crits naturally and still getting a one in a million run with 100% crit rate, you can see where the realistic limits for the classes are. Damage output isn't some magical concept that will change based on how much you believe in it. If one reaper player can get consistently better results than someone with a "different playing style", the first player and their playing style are obviously better at maximizing the class' potential.
The reason reapers don't use spiteful dyads is probably that it doesn't affect the majority of their skills.
You cannot state a tier of DPS "in your opinion". You may say, "By my observations", but it is evident that if you believe Gunner to be higher than Warrior, Ninja, Archer, and Sorcerer, your observations are wrong. Anyone who has an idea of DPS by million per second knows this.
Also, Sorcerer is not a long range class, as its core skills are mid-ranged (see: Fireblast, Nova).
You cannot add "in my opinion" to your statements to bar them from any possibility of argument. I cannot factually state "the world is flat, in my opinion" any more than you can provide a mathematical tier list "in your opinion".
Reaper isn't special mid-ranged class. Let's simplify the classification. Don't trust that class description in character creation e.g. Archer is a sustained DPS ROFLMAO.
NPCPak can state an opinion how she feels she can state it in the best way she knows how to do so.
What is an Opinion anyway:
a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.
an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something.
what someone thinks about a particular thing.
NPCPak may say it how it is wished to be said from her own thoughts, it as long as she is not breaking Forum rules. YOU on the other hand do not have the RIGHT or priviledge to tell NPCPak, nor instruct or dictate to anyone on the forum for that matter, on "how to say anything when it comes to sharing their opinions".
That is fact not opinion.
What you may do is share your opinion against hers as to what dps, low to high should be and share your reason behind it. You may share satistics to back up your own opinion.
That makes sense
That's just your opinion
oh and those statistics you wanted : https://moongourd.com/
as said multiple times before there are actual ways to measure dps, you cant state a tier listing with no testing done and then say imo, thats spreading false information, it also shows that this person has little to no knowledge of what they are talking about and yet you seek to defend them. as i said before it begs to wonder on your op, questioning what a reaper is.
Providing that last part on the link.. I'm not sure how that was build. if it was built using a dps meter than, it's not really realiable.
You have to take into considerations of etchings, types of crystals and what has been glyphed as well. That particular chart does not exactly go into those details.. While it maybe helpful to some, due to the fact it is missing much information to PROVE your own opinion or others that are in like mind.
ON THE OTHER HAND if we WERE to use Current guide setups for character build. WE MIGHT actually have something here. So I won't dismiss it. It will take some looking into.
I have concerns to consider. Considering that these are dungeon stats. and every player as a style of play that differs from another so dps will vary.
To prove this you have gunner and warrior on different charts and they are switched.
It really depends on player style and what they are using. Those things need to be taken into account.
It's quite possible to be a good lead on defining a dps low to high list. We also have to consider the buffs and revamps.
Let's put this one on the shelf for later study. I say this because. in that chart reaper is in the third or second category. It will take some study for that.
Dps meters are literally the most reliable source of metering dps.
It does.
It is.
I realize that you are new here--I can take that from the fact that you didn't know what a reaper was until you asked. That's fine, we're all new here at some point. But soon you'll come to realize that almost everyone here values Moongourd as the prime source for Tera's dps statistics. Shinra meter is supremely accurate and has information that goes into the minute details of how many times a skill was used, the crit rate, the damage each time it was used, what buffs were on when you used it, how often you were healed, you damage per second, the amount of damage you sustained, the consumables you used, the enrage time of the boss, all of the skills and all of this information for everyone in your party, how much % of your total damage a certain skill you used dealt, the total damage you dealt to a boss, the bosses' name and each statistic for each boss, and a lot more.
Saying it isn't reliable is absolutely wrong.
you do know you have to upload your glyph page and it does show consumables/buff break downs, up times and skill break downs? its still more reliable than a person watching a boss's hp at non end game runs and building a tier lol. yes dps will vary but the point being made is the MAX DPS a warrior can attain is way greater than the MAX DPS a gunner can attain no matter the glyph set up, consumables, debuffs, up time or tank type/healer type, its that simple, if you fail to grasp that concept then idk what to say, some people may truly be lost.
I am not saying you are wrong. There is a way of countering a persons opinion versus just outright calling them ignorant or stupid which is what a majority of people do. My point is just because someones opinion is not based on fact it does not mean their opinion is wrong. An opinion is meant to be proven right or wrong with statistics. That's what everyone rely's on. Statistics when it comes to proving their opinion is right or wrong. Now NPCPak may very well do a more thorough research for facts to attempt to prove the opinion and may very well find out that the opinion will need to be changed.
I myself think that there is a completely different low to high range on dps. I'm not here to debate it. I don't find a point to debate it in this thread.
At the end of the day whether corrections need to be made or not to show facts of things. This thread is in fact about reapers and why they are not in larger numbers. While this dps low to high debate has come into play, we need to simply remember the reason behind the implied opinion as to why the reaper class has faded in numbers.
The point being here I believe behind NPCPaks opinion is meant to imply that Reapers do not do as much dps as the other classes and perhaps that adds to think that the animations they do are also slower.
That would be the point of this.