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Would a forceful crystal be good for Lunar Dancer/Paragon/Valkyrie.. ect

PastelGothPastelGoth
in TERA PC - General Discussion
So I was fusing niveots and I managed to get a Protectively Forceful Niveot (the ones made for warrior where crits increase power when they attack from behind). So I was wondering would it be worth saving this crystal for Lunar Dancer ect. because from what everyone is saying it doesn't need a lot of crit but uses more power since its crit is already high as is.
Do you think this is a good idea?
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Comments

  • BitMeTwiceBitMeTwice ✭
    Yes. Unless they change it before roll out, It's looking like power will be the main way to go.
  • metagamemetagame ✭✭✭✭
    the best crystal setup for lunar is focused/savage/bitter and pounding. forceful is not as good
  • TipanniTipanni ✭✭
    It's not good, the Lunar class is a full power build with keeping as low crit as possible, near the default amount of +50-60 crit factor so pounding will always be better
  • StevenAnthonyStevenAnthony ✭✭✭✭
    dont matter, they still broken after next two major pachts , hueheuhue, am, no , only use pouding xD
  • PastelGothPastelGoth ✭✭
    Tipanni wrote: »
    It's not good, the Lunar class is a full power build with keeping as low crit as possible, near the default amount of +50-60 crit factor so pounding will always be better

    But looking at the skills and what people have said... that this class crits a lot... so they don't need to add crit... so if I'm critting thats an extra 20 power or so there...
    8.1% is still good... either way I guess I'll get a fine niveot of both and try them out.
  • EllieChuEllieChu ✭✭✭
    You're going to stack so much power for your lunar dancer that it would be better to get a pounding dyad for it because of diminishing returns from the power build
  • 66ECX7NAN766ECX7NAN7 ✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    20 or 21 power is only good for classes that use a full crit jewelry, otherwise just use pounding.
  • KimimishanKimimishan ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    Nope, Forceful will be terrible. It does need a lot of power (basically only this), and that's why the Forceful will be bad, let me dumb it down so it's easily understandable:
    You have 100 power, your Forceful gives you +10 power, for a total of 110. The increase of damage is 10%
    In our Lunar Dancer case, you're gonna have 500 power because you'll have Power stacked in every form you can achieve it, your Forceful still gives you +10 of power, for a total of 510 power; the increase of damage is 2%.

    With that simple example (PLEASE BE SURE TO NOTE THAT: this isn't the way it actually works, this is simply an easy-to-understand-example to demonstrate the principle), you can see that the higher Power you have, the lower the benefit from a Forceful is. That's the principle of diminishing return. Do some search around the line of min-max, pounding vs forceful, there is an exhaustive amount of maths-enthusiasts who will have actual formula, and Forceful usually does lose to a good ol' Pounding, not only for the new class but for most of the already existing ones (who go full crit).
  • xvctxvct ✭✭✭
    Kimimishan wrote: »
    Nope, Forceful will be terrible. It does need a lot of power (basically only this), and that's why the Forceful will be bad, let me dumb it down so it's easily understandable:
    You have 100 power, your Forceful gives you +10 power, for a total of 110. The increase of damage is 10%
    In our Lunar Dancer case, you're gonna have 500 power because you'll have Power stacked in every form you can achieve it, your Forceful still gives you +10 of power, for a total of 510 power; the increase of damage is 2%.

    With that simple example (PLEASE BE SURE TO NOTE THAT: this isn't the way it actually works, this is simply an easy-to-understand-example to demonstrate the principle), you can see that the higher Power you have, the lower the benefit from a Forceful is. That's the principle of diminishing return. Do some search around the line of min-max, pounding vs forceful, there is an exhaustive amount of maths-enthusiasts who will have actual formula, and Forceful usually does lose to a good ol' Pounding, not only for the new class but for most of the already existing ones (who go full crit).

    thanks for that
    i was wondering why some people said that Forceful was bad on some classes
  • ShadowOfLightShadowOfLight ✭✭✭
    pretty sure fine forceful niveot gives you 20 power. but yes. forceful is [filtered] on valkrie.
  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    You can just use the following formulas and calculate things like GShout, Priest/Mystic buffs, Prime Battle Solution, and Enrage status

    DPS gain from 22 Power/Forceful Dyad is (Power + 122)/(Power + 100)

    DPS gain from 8.5% damage/Pounding Dyad is (New%damage + 108.5%)/(Old%damage + 100%)
  • AlundrraAlundrra ✭
    Short answer. Yes.
  • StevenAnthonyStevenAnthony ✭✭✭✭
    Kimimishan wrote: »
    Nope, Forceful will be terrible. It does need a lot of power (basically only this), and that's why the Forceful will be bad, let me dumb it down so it's easily understandable:
    You have 100 power, your Forceful gives you +10 power, for a total of 110. The increase of damage is 10%
    In our Lunar Dancer case, you're gonna have 500 power because you'll have Power stacked in every form you can achieve it, your Forceful still gives you +10 of power, for a total of 510 power; the increase of damage is 2%.

    With that simple example (PLEASE BE SURE TO NOTE THAT: this isn't the way it actually works, this is simply an easy-to-understand-example to demonstrate the principle), you can see that the higher Power you have, the lower the benefit from a Forceful is. That's the principle of diminishing return. Do some search around the line of min-max, pounding vs forceful, there is an exhaustive amount of maths-enthusiasts who will have actual formula, and Forceful usually does lose to a good ol' Pounding, not only for the new class but for most of the already existing ones (who go full crit).

    fourcelutness VIII gave you 20 power
  • PartyblastPartyblast ✭✭✭✭
    StevenAnthony wrote: »
    fourcelutness VIII gave you 20 power
    ShadowOfLight wrote: »
    pretty sure fine forceful niveot gives you 20 power. but yes. forceful is [filtered] on valkrie.

    Sigh, Kimimishan said right on their post that the +10 power was just an example to show how the damage increase works and diminishes the more power you have.

    As said previously, since you're mainly building power (due to your highest damaging skills having a 100% critrate) on the Valkyrie you'll have wayy too much power for a forceful to be useful, it'll be best to use a pounding for the flat damage increase.
  • feazesherofeazeshero ✭✭✭
    Basically the more power you have invested, the better it is use to use Pounding rather than forceful. It's far more effective.
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