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We want optimization. Does BHS not care about its player base? Discussion Thread.

I feel like this is the elephant in the room,

People have been requesting game optimization for years but BHS continues to ignore the requests; instead they roll out new costumes, dungeons, and classes. I understand that new content translates to new players but the new players are quickly moving on to better optimized games that run at a playable frame rate during instance matching and battleground type settings. Instances run 'okay' in Tera but battlegrounds and open world PvP performance is extremely sub-par; I find that to be very disappointing, especially since Tera markets itself as an open-world PvP game - well they used to, maybe they removed infamy and the PvP lore because they have no interest in having a healthy PvP player base in NA, since the players of the Korean version seem to have less of an interest in PvP . I guess the real problem is that they are trying to feed NA players the Korean version and expect the NA players to conform? Kind of reminds me of a certain type of leadership style...

Anyways, when Tera released on Steam, there was a significant boost in new players flooding into the game, but many of them quickly left. I'm not saying poor optimization is the only factor but it definitely did not help. I've been thinking about the announcement that stated Tera will be coming to console during 2017. I'm wondering if BHS will be preforming a substantial amount of optimization to make the game compatible with consoles? As we all should know, console's have nothing on PC's in regards to cpu and video capabilities.. if they release a version of Tera that is similar to this one, the game will flop seemingly overnight, I bet.

In conclusion, I feel that a large portion of Tera's player base feels as though their voice is not being heard, and when that occurs, the results are fairly straight forward.. just look at Tera's population. :(

Anyways, rant over. lol

Please share your opinion below - it doesn't have to relate to my post at all!

Cheers,
BRXTN

«13

Comments

  • OtsoOtso ✭✭
    Well as nice it would be to have Tera running at 60 fps at all times, alot people forget that BHS has done some optimization to the game, it's small changes sure, but only so much that they can do to the engine and such too, but yeah we have gotten new UI and such wich reduced UI lags etc. dont expect miracles tho
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    People forget the insane amount of work that is to code a 37+GB game. hurr durr most of that is textures. STILL, you've got an insane amount of code to simply redo completely. To find what is bugging the game and making it slow and CPU hogging, it will take ages. It will not be surprising if they had to simply redo the base code of the game. At the very least they'll have to completely re-code the interface system that is said to be the biggest CPU thread hog, or move it to another CPU thread, preferentially on it's own separate core (tho that's up to the OS).

    But thinking about the fact that this game is coming now to PS4 and Xbox One, that are heavily multi-threaded machines (8 cores CPU) with quite low single thread performance, it's mandatory that they optimize it. They'll just not be able to get away with crappy FPS on a console game. At least it should be a smooth 30 FPS (yes, smooth 30. 30 FPS IS smooth if you keep it constant. Most of the issues with low FPS is the sudden variation on it not the brute value. Remember cinema movies are 24 FPS). It seems like the console port is our hope to get the FPS TERA should always have ran at, I mean this game came in 2012 and with nowadays hardware it runs just as well as it does with the old one (no kidding, my hardware is pretty much all from that time and it runs at OKish/Perfect in TERA therms FPS).

    Considering the low difference in CPU architectures and the optimization of Dead or Alive 5 Last Round, I would say that if console port gets properly done, we'll finally see that good FPS on our PC MASTER RACE machines.


    BHS while you're at it: axe out that "light enrichment" final stage and put some real Anti-Aliasing there, that blurry thing is stupid
  • ZoknahalZoknahal ✭✭✭✭✭
    Indeed, Optimization has been in everyone's mouths since the past 4 years. A ray of hope is at the end of the tunnel once TERA hits consoles. This means that if any change is to happen for the consoles that will make TERA run way better, it has to be retroactive and applied to the PC.

    Optimizing a 37GB+ game is not easy, specially when the engine used is not the best one for mmos and the core problem of the optimization is the badly designed UI, which has so many elements it drains the performance of the game.
  • Optimization is a lot of work. But if BHS had spent the past 3 years working on optimizing the game rather than making horrible contents and classes, Tera would be in a much better shape than right now. We would have good contents and less lag. Instead we have horrible contents and still a lot of lag.
  • Otso wrote: »
    Well as nice it would be to have Tera running at 60 fps at all times, alot people forget that BHS has done some optimization to the game, it's small changes sure, but only so much that they can do to the engine and such too, but yeah we have gotten new UI and such wich reduced UI lags etc. dont expect miracles tho

    I get that fighting in dungeons. When I'm alone it's like 120-ish. If you got the computer specs the game does run well. Tera is on a very old engine that had it problems and they simply can't do much more with it.
  • ArcherOfEnvyArcherOfEnvy Netherlands ✭✭✭
    BRXTN wrote: »
    I feel like this is the elephant in the room,

    People have been requesting game optimization for years but BHS continues to ignore the requests; instead they roll out new costumes, dungeons, and classes. I understand that new content translates to new players but the new players are quickly moving on to better optimized games that run at a playable frame rate during instance matching and battleground type settings. Instances run 'okay' in Tera but battlegrounds and open world PvP performance is extremely sub-par; I find that to be very disappointing, especially since Tera markets itself as an open-world PvP game - well they used to, maybe they removed infamy and the PvP lore because they have no interest in having a healthy PvP player base in NA, since the players of the Korean version seem to have less of an interest in PvP . I guess the real problem is that they are trying to feed NA players the Korean version and expect the NA players to conform? Kind of reminds me of a certain type of leadership style...

    Anyways, when Tera released on Steam, there was a significant boost in new players flooding into the game, but many of them quickly left. I'm not saying poor optimization is the only factor but it definitely did not help. I've been thinking about the announcement that stated Tera will be coming to console during 2017. I'm wondering if BHS will be preforming a substantial amount of optimization to make the game compatible with consoles? As we all should know, console's have nothing on PC's in regards to cpu and video capabilities.. if they release a version of Tera that is similar to this one, the game will flop seemingly overnight, I bet.

    In conclusion, I feel that a large portion of Tera's player base feels as though their voice is not being heard, and when that occurs, the results are fairly straight forward.. just look at Tera's population. :(

    Anyways, rant over. lol

    Please share your opinion below - it doesn't have to relate to my post at all!

    Cheers,
    BRXTN

    Honestly, from a developer's perspective.. I do think they'll do the console version in UE4 or they'll have to modify UE3 engine some more. Given that they are bringing it out for PS4 and XBone, I'm going with the UE4 scenario. So in terms of performance and optimization? MS and Sony both have quite some strict policies on games being published/developed for their platforms. There are a lot of criterias to be met, unless they lowered the bar a little. We'll see in time.
  • I doubt BHS will bother with any sort of optimization for console version of TERA, they survived this long without doing it for the PC version. I do hope I'm wrong but I've lost all hope for any sort of optimization.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    I doubt BHS will bother with any sort of optimization for console version of TERA, they survived this long without doing it for the PC version. I do hope I'm wrong but I've lost all hope for any sort of optimization.

    I doubt, TERA takes way too much single thread performance for the consoles to be able to run. If they re-code some of the parts to multi-thread then it will work better on consoles and that's our ray of hope.
    They'll not be able to get away with 10 FPS Velika during people AFK spams and mystics littering the floor with motes. Sony and Microsoft just won't let them get away with it, or at least hope not.
  • Honestly I think it all comes down to money, bhs are a business and they want to make most money possible. Why else do you think we get recycled bosses and dungeons, less time will be spent on content and more on cosmetic items, it's sad but true, also what others have said it is a huge game and trying to optimise it now 5 years later will be a major project
  • Of course they don't care lol. It's too much investment and likely won't get much in return considering this is a 5 year old game. I think they're better off financially to just keep moving forward with what they have. Like someone mentioned earlier, its a huge game and re-optimizing something to this capacity is just not worth the time.
  • msoltysplmsoltyspl ✭✭✭
    6 years (from KR's perspective) + very lengthy development period since ca. 2007

    Pesimistically speaking - whole console move is - most likely - to get as much whales into cash shop as possible, before they all quit. I'd love believe it's different, but that would be naive. I mean - we have one guy (with tools and data from other people) that basically fixed ping-dependency of nearly the whole game at this point - and BHS didn't lift a [filtered] finger for over half a decade.

    It's nice and warm to see where they idiotic priorities are.

    As for - Microsoft/Sony not letting them get away with crappy port ? Come on ? There's enough poorly functioning junk on both consoles. One mmo more or less, who cares. As long as some money flows.

  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    msoltyspl wrote: »
    6 years (from KR's perspective) + very lengthy development period since ca. 2007

    Pesimistically speaking - whole console move is - most likely - to get as much whales into cash shop as possible, before they all quit. I'd love believe it's different, but that would be naive. I mean - we have one guy (with tools and data from other people) that basically fixed ping-dependency of nearly the whole game at this point - and BHS didn't lift a [filtered] finger for over half a decade.

    It's nice and warm to see where they idiotic priorities are.

    As for - Microsoft/Sony not letting them get away with crappy port ? Come on ? There's enough poorly functioning junk on both consoles. One mmo more or less, who cares. As long as some money flows.

    May I take your last words to heart then.
    A terrible game won't flow any money. Simple as that. Actually it will, flow outwards from the company, like a money sink only. You can live with some lower details, you can live with hurr durr horrible 30 FPS, but you can't with 10. It just won't work, no one will want to play a slideshow. The consoles have close to mid/low end PC specs so you will have to change that to work on the heavily multithreaded environment that both 8 core CPU consoles are.
    It just has to be done no matter what, or else this game won't go to consoles. That's why I have faith that some optimization will happen. Full graphics at constant 60 FPS on consoles? Kek. But 30 for sure they'll have to achieve. To be fair I actually think they can pull full graphics + anti-aliasing at 60FPS full HD if they really do it properly.

    As shown by UI tweaks on S1_Engine file, the UI is what kills the FPS the most. Removing names from players improves dramatically the FPS for some players. That is not so easy to do, but it has to be done to reach the console players. At least that. And I believe it will be done.

    There has been some performance tweaks indeed in all those years, it's not that they're stalled there, it's just no easy task. When you work with code other people did, it can become a HUGE HORRIBLY STINKY MESS, you know, sometimes you have to burn the house down instead of fixing it's foundations. Spagetti code, incomprehensible previous devs. logic, fixing something in programming may be harder than... well... burn the house down and make it again from ground up.
    So think of completely re-coding the interface system - which they WILL do for the controller interface support, the mouse pointer with click on analog just won't do for longer usage - this is no easy task, hence not done in a snap.
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    ElinLove wrote: »
    msoltyspl wrote: »
    6 years (from KR's perspective) + very lengthy development period since ca. 2007

    Pesimistically speaking - whole console move is - most likely - to get as much whales into cash shop as possible, before they all quit. I'd love believe it's different, but that would be naive. I mean - we have one guy (with tools and data from other people) that basically fixed ping-dependency of nearly the whole game at this point - and BHS didn't lift a [filtered] finger for over half a decade.

    It's nice and warm to see where they idiotic priorities are.

    As for - Microsoft/Sony not letting them get away with crappy port ? Come on ? There's enough poorly functioning junk on both consoles. One mmo more or less, who cares. As long as some money flows.

    May I take your last words to heart then.
    A terrible game won't flow any money. Simple as that. Actually it will, flow outwards from the company, like a money sink only. You can live with some lower details, you can live with hurr durr horrible 30 FPS, but you can't with 10. It just won't work, no one will want to play a slideshow. The consoles have close to mid/low end PC specs so you will have to change that to work on the heavily multithreaded environment that both 8 core CPU consoles are.
    It just has to be done no matter what, or else this game won't go to consoles. That's why I have faith that some optimization will happen. Full graphics at constant 60 FPS on consoles? Kek. But 30 for sure they'll have to achieve. To be fair I actually think they can pull full graphics + anti-aliasing at 60FPS full HD if they really do it properly.

    As shown by UI tweaks on S1_Engine file, the UI is what kills the FPS the most. Removing names from players improves dramatically the FPS for some players. That is not so easy to do, but it has to be done to reach the console players. At least that. And I believe it will be done.

    There has been some performance tweaks indeed in all those years, it's not that they're stalled there, it's just no easy task. When you work with code other people did, it can become a HUGE HORRIBLY STINKY MESS, you know, sometimes you have to burn the house down instead of fixing it's foundations. Spagetti code, incomprehensible previous devs. logic, fixing something in programming may be harder than... well... burn the house down and make it again from ground up.
    So think of completely re-coding the interface system - which they WILL do for the controller interface support, the mouse pointer with click on analog just won't do for longer usage - this is no easy task, hence not done in a snap.

    BHS has mentioned about changing the UI, although when it comes to public information they don't have much on optimization. They've acknowledged the game does run poorly, and the UI wasn't good either.
  • ArcherOfEnvyArcherOfEnvy Netherlands ✭✭✭
    ElinLove wrote: »
    I doubt BHS will bother with any sort of optimization for console version of TERA, they survived this long without doing it for the PC version. I do hope I'm wrong but I've lost all hope for any sort of optimization.

    I doubt, TERA takes way too much single thread performance for the consoles to be able to run. If they re-code some of the parts to multi-thread then it will work better on consoles and that's our ray of hope.
    They'll not be able to get away with 10 FPS Velika during people AFK spams and mystics littering the floor with motes. Sony and Microsoft just won't let them get away with it, or at least hope not.

    They won't trust me. Especially since UE3 being so outdated, they have no choice but to go with UE4 for the console development of TERA, unless they optimize the UE3 engine or manage to port some stuff into it from UE4 codebase, idk if Epic allows source code to be taken from UE4, since it's free and the such. I know that UE3 days you had to buy a developer's license from Epic Games.
  • ArcherOfEnvyArcherOfEnvy Netherlands ✭✭✭
    Yamazuki wrote: »
    ElinLove wrote: »
    msoltyspl wrote: »
    6 years (from KR's perspective) + very lengthy development period since ca. 2007

    Pesimistically speaking - whole console move is - most likely - to get as much whales into cash shop as possible, before they all quit. I'd love believe it's different, but that would be naive. I mean - we have one guy (with tools and data from other people) that basically fixed ping-dependency of nearly the whole game at this point - and BHS didn't lift a [filtered] finger for over half a decade.

    It's nice and warm to see where they idiotic priorities are.

    As for - Microsoft/Sony not letting them get away with crappy port ? Come on ? There's enough poorly functioning junk on both consoles. One mmo more or less, who cares. As long as some money flows.

    May I take your last words to heart then.
    A terrible game won't flow any money. Simple as that. Actually it will, flow outwards from the company, like a money sink only. You can live with some lower details, you can live with hurr durr horrible 30 FPS, but you can't with 10. It just won't work, no one will want to play a slideshow. The consoles have close to mid/low end PC specs so you will have to change that to work on the heavily multithreaded environment that both 8 core CPU consoles are.
    It just has to be done no matter what, or else this game won't go to consoles. That's why I have faith that some optimization will happen. Full graphics at constant 60 FPS on consoles? Kek. But 30 for sure they'll have to achieve. To be fair I actually think they can pull full graphics + anti-aliasing at 60FPS full HD if they really do it properly.

    As shown by UI tweaks on S1_Engine file, the UI is what kills the FPS the most. Removing names from players improves dramatically the FPS for some players. That is not so easy to do, but it has to be done to reach the console players. At least that. And I believe it will be done.

    There has been some performance tweaks indeed in all those years, it's not that they're stalled there, it's just no easy task. When you work with code other people did, it can become a HUGE HORRIBLY STINKY MESS, you know, sometimes you have to burn the house down instead of fixing it's foundations. Spagetti code, incomprehensible previous devs. logic, fixing something in programming may be harder than... well... burn the house down and make it again from ground up.
    So think of completely re-coding the interface system - which they WILL do for the controller interface support, the mouse pointer with click on analog just won't do for longer usage - this is no easy task, hence not done in a snap.

    BHS has mentioned about changing the UI, although when it comes to public information they don't have much on optimization. They've acknowledged the game does run poorly, and the UI wasn't good either.

    The UI is in [filtered] Flash, the cancer (might be offensive and rude, but that's how I see it.) that kills the internet. Sure Flash introduced media and the such to the internet, but it's becoming obsolete by HTML5.
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