From girl gamers...

Shinku89 · May 2016

@Mobius1

It's nice that you mention what qualities you like in women, but this is not a dating thread, not all women are like your wife, we're all different people with different personalities, there is no "should" or "shouldn't", especially if it's based on gender.

And if you mention this, there's a difference from asking for help or expecting for protection from someone you trust the most, your partner in life, your soul mate. There is nothing wrong with a husband protecting his wife and the other way around. This is beyond "white knight", this is loyalty. This is not what I am talking about.

I was mainly referring to some girls in this post who were angry at men just because they did not agree to helping them stand against chauvinistic comments from other people. (Do you really expect a random person unrelated to topic to protect you just because someone else was being rude to you? seriously?) Or women that use men for their own benefit (aka gold-diggers).

You want respect? Show some dignity. this is what i am saying. We can do exactly the same thing men can do. This is fact. (Besides we being inferior relatively to men with the whole physical strength - this is the only thing you guys are better than us).

Besides, did you know that the first computer programmer was a female? You didn't know this, right? huh. I always like throwing these facts around (B

Whatever you believe of us being sensitive or whatever - is irrelevant. We are capable of exactly the same thing men are capable of.

Mobius1 · May 2016

@Kaidun

A woman's emotional makeup is due largely to their physical makeup. Thus making it as much a matter of physiology as it is psychologically.

@Shinku89

I think it's awesome when women accomplish great things. Surely women have as much potential as men.

But they are also different in many ways. There's nothing wrong with a woman being more sensitive (or a man, for that matter!), and to be told that they need to be more thick skinned, is as wrong as anything you are speaking out against.

But yes, fundamentally, neither men NOR women, should be mistreated. That is truly correct.

But I disagree with White Knights being a bad thing.

Avignon · May 2016

And on average men are more likely, in real life, to be attacked than a women. Looks at violence statistics. So really it should be little boys taught to watch themsleves, to be even more careful, when walking about when they get older. Also, men are told at a young age how to act, don't cry, be a man, don't show too many emotions. You don't wanna be a sissy or a girly boy...you wanna be a man. Be strong, be tough. Same idea, just different words and applied to boys. It's told to men for other reasons, typically, but the thing happens.

This whole thread is just coming off as a place for radical feminists to bs, whine, cry and complain together.

Anyway, I'm gonna go actually play Tera.

Anivay · May 2016

Kertain wrote: »

@Anivay
I understand that it irks you (whatever irks means), but tell me something, do you think/believe they are doing that to degrade you in any way?

Irk means slightly agitated/annoyed. I just don't like it when the atmosphere in the chat seems to shift the first time I speak and people are surprised/start acting differently than they had been while I was silent. It's not so much about degrading as just being treated differently than everyone else just b/c my voice makes it obvious that I'm a girl.

Kaidun · May 2016

cuz wrote: »

snip

Women and men are both victims of the same artificial gender system created by society to oppress people based on their masculinity and femininity , saying men can't complain about this idiotic system because they are less victimized goes against your own argument

cuz · May 2016

"What you are saying makes no sense at all, she said women have to change to survive without bowing down to anyone, and you are saying women are taught to change to bow down and not be messed about with, so please clear this up." @Kertain

Women having to change in order to deal with mistreatment from men is sexism. Women shouldn't have to change how they act to accommodate for men. In regards to what I said, the OP of that quote mentioned the real world being worse and I was elaborating on that and how acting x way in order to survive because of possible mistreatment from men is not okay.

"Women and men are both victims of the same artificial gender system created by society to oppress people based on their masculinity and femininity , saying men can't complain about this idiotic system because they are less victimized goes against your own argument" @Kaidun

Yes. Women and men both can be victimized. Never did I once say that men are less victimized. Please reply to this with a quote showing me where it says that.

However, the entire point of that snippet was to show that when there is a topic regarding women's issues it is not the appropriate place to discuss men's issues. Let's revisit a key point in that snippet:

"You sound an awful lot like you're talking about men's problems to say 'oh well, we all have something to be upset about, I guess there's not much reason to think anything's that unfair'. We bring up men's problems because we want things to change. You bring them up because you're invested in the current system, and you want to tell us we don't have that much to complain about. And when you constantly bring up that "men have problems too!" you often indicate that not only do you not understand women's experience, you don't really understand that you don't understand"

Kaidun · May 2016

cuz wrote: »

[
However, the entire point of that snippet was to show that when there is a topic regarding women's issues it is not the appropriate place to discuss men's issues. Let's revisit a key point in that snippet:

"You sound an awful lot like you're talking about men's problems to say 'oh well, we all have something to be upset about, I guess there's not much reason to think anything's that unfair'. We bring up men's problems because we want things to change. You bring them up because you're invested in the current system, and you want to tell us we don't have that much to complain about. And when you constantly bring up that "men have problems too!" you often indicate that not only do you not understand women's experience, you don't really understand that you don't understand"

Oh was that , my bad , sorry
I misunderstood your quote

cuz · May 2016

Kaidun wrote: »

Oh was that , my bad , sorry
I misunderstood your quote

It's okay! I am not here to try to bash you. I am not here to say that men do not also have issues. I am not here to say that men's issues on gender equality are not valid. I am just saying that considering the environment and the discussion on women's issues, it is not the right place to discuss men's issues. This was originally a post discussing inequality among females in Tera, which quickly derailed into conversation about other topics (i.e. slavery/racism), and that snippet was just to get the conversation topic back into the original issue.

allofspaceandtime · May 2016

I haven't had the problems in awhile, after I started doing everything solo, and the things I cant do solo I either don't do or I run with other females in my guild. I have kicked guys and girls out due to their behavior. my thing is why cant eme/bhs filter chat in game like they can in forums. I would just like to see people treat each other with respect. " its just a game ", or " its the internet " , is no excuse for disrespecting others male and female. telling someone that you will rape them shouldn't be acceptable either. when I do put it out there that im a female, its not for special treatment or for gifts, its because I enjoy playing games, and I want people to know that real live females play games and not all are boys pretending to be girls. as for the comment about " manning up " and " grow thick skin ", I have had to due to my permanent injuries. i play different times of day and night. daytime isn't as bad as night as far as the language and behavior. i turned global chat off my 2nd day of playing once someone told me how to lol. but area chat and say, sometimes can get pretty rough. i have learned just to leave an area, or to do something else. i tell people before and after they join my guild that bad behavior towards others inside and outside the guild will not be tolerated. i have had to let many go because of that. i try to do what i can to make tera a good experience while they are escaping the real world. no one should be treated like crap in game or out of game.

Kertain · May 2016

@cuz

I'm more cleared on what you meant but the question remains though. If nothing is changed now, nothing can be changed in the future.
People that are being descriminated have to complain, or else noone will realize they have problems, that complaint in itself is a change in what's perceived as traditional behaviour.

Basically what I mean in this case is, the opener when confronted with the change of atitude from part of her guildies should say: "Why are you treating me like this (some giving cold shoulder/some giving more gifts and being more gentle) now? I didn't ask for this." Or else men will just keep doing what they think it's normal, because they don't even realize it's a wrong thing to do in the first place. We can blame society here, preconceptions whatever.

I'm sure some of them may simply be jerks and do it because they find it funny those only have an option: block, report; but some may not understand what they are doing and may return to being cool with you if you simply call them to attention, and they may not repeat it with the next girl that enters their clan, it's also a process of growing up.

A change won't happen for you if you yourself don't change.
It's not a big change, it's simply gaining the ability to speak up your mind to fend for yourself and for those who will come after you.
Think like this your great grandmothers "manned up"/changed to give you the right to vote.

TWMagimay · May 2016

cuz wrote: »

I am just saying that considering the environment and the discussion on women's issues, it is not the right place to discuss men's issues.

The thing is, there is NO gender inequality in Tera(unless we are talking about new classes and costumes) which is why men got dragged into the discussion. Everybody gets disrespected, mistreated, insulted, harassed and women don't have it worse. If anything, men have it worse because nobody jumps to the defence of a guy(they are expected to be able to handle it) and nobody is told they should protect men and be nice to them. Girls are NEVER targeted purely because of gender. I think deepthroat girl and the other stories proved that they DID something to provoke that treatment. Asking for girls to be left laone because [filtered] is not asking for equality, it's asking for special treatment. And I'm tired of being the party stopper because guys are afraid they might hurt my feels if they make a joke.

Kertain · May 2016

LOL I was reading @TWMagimay comment and something just went through my mind.

I can see the future already, BR asking for their own server and right alongside them, women asking for a female only server.

cuz · May 2016

@Kertain I agree with you. I think we both read each other's comments differently. I understand what you're saying though and yes it should be called out in order to make a difference. However from how OP of the quote worded it, it came across to me that women should just ignore comments and change who they are to be silent when they should be speaking up when disrespected like you said. It should be voiced.

@TWMagimay men did not get dragged into the conversation. Men forced themselves into the conversation. I know you saw the posts before it got edited because you tried arguing a different point with me on page 3 (which I had typed a reply to but fell asleep holding my phone before hitting post rip). So you are aware that starting on page 2 men began to push their way into the conversation saying things like it doesn't matter bc men face differences as well (and also other very rude comments which caused their posts to be deleted). But if you read through my snippet, you will understand why including men's POV in this post is unnecessary. Nowhere does it say that the issues men face are not important. Nowhere does it say they do not face discrimination or harassment as well. Feel free to read it over again and you will see that neither of those were brought up in any form. Hopefully the point will become clear that although men do face issues as well, it is not right to bring up men's issues on a post strictly regarding women's issues - which was the sole purpose of me including it.

allofspaceandtime · May 2016

I guess the girls that get raped gets raped because they provoked it somehow because they wore makeup and got cleaned up. I never have been anything but nice to everyone in tera in game and in forums. I don't ask for gold or gifts. just like in game, in the forums people assume tat its all our fault everytime, no matter what. that is what you are saying TW in not so many words. so im at fault for being mistreated because people knew I was a girl, even though all I ever did was speak nice to people, and never flirted or gave the impression I want to be anything but friendly. now if I got the wrong impression from what you posted, I apologize and would like for you to be more clear.

Shinku89 · May 2016

@cuz I don't understand how you got me that way, this is not what i meant at all. My original post was along the lines of "why to take notice of comments of mere sheep, wherever if it's a woman or a man". Most of the time, such comments should be ignored. If you reply back, you're mainly feeding the trolls.

I can give you an example that many may understand - Game of Thrones. Lots of female hate. Dan (Khaleesi) is always bring humiliated throughout the whole series, just because she's a woman. Whenever she hears such comments, does she always reply back? No. She sometimes stays silent. Ignoring isn't always the sign of weakness. Ignoring is sometimes a sign of maturity. Why to try to change minds of primitive small minded creatures? why would it even bother her? They're pathetic. Just ignore, and move along.

From girl gamers...

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