The 3rd Party Thread

MuerteDan · April 2017

There is a lot of good information in this thread and I actually enjoyed reading it all and I don't think I could add anymore to what has been said already. What is a bit nerve wracking is the level of people white knighting anything constructive that seem to have their heads so far up EME's [filtered] they can't tell where they end and eme begins. Then there is the people who try and turn this thread into their own little crying game those need to go too.

Honestly this whole debacle has cost EME a lot of good players that were playing from EU and had a life on NA servers. More than half my guild was EU players and they are all leaving to head back to Gameforge where you can run dps meters and other things without issue. It's a truly sad day for Tera and EME.

ElinLove · April 2017

ZeRoHouR95 wrote: »

[...]
but it would be nice to have a little more of support for what we are trying to make like something fair instead of calling us "cheaters" nobody wants free runs on dungeons or gold or w/e, just a proper game optimization and skill prediction, nothing else! Let's focus on the main subject again, leave white knighting away, and get into this like we should of from the beginning, wise words from you LesbianVi!

This thread has crashed and burned violently since the start. There's many people who are in favor of the 3rd party program usage control and that also agrees with the fact that the reason it came into use to begin with, should be fixed, but not just let it go rampant (like me).
Then there's those that just blast the thread with "You bunch of cheaters go aways! Horray Enmasse ban everyone!" like they would get hired as official pushover or sheat like that.

Then the ones that are in favor or at least partially in favor of the 3rd party control are getting caught in the middle of these trolls and getting labeled white knights.

Same goes for who's against. People that defend that we're in need of something to fix the ever going ping tax problem and perfomance optimization problem, if not from enmasse or BHS then be it 3rd party, these are also getting caught between the trolls that think they are entitled to a game breaking "fix" for their issues, or downright hacking and exploiting.

Then the ones on this side of the talk are getting labeled as the cheaters.

The whole thread derailed. It crashed and burned. It's filled with trolls, name callings, "You're so stupid you shouldn't be born" comments getting tons of upvotes, showing how much of a brain capacity people who are/were there have.

It's gonna be a bit hard to get this thread back into it's rails. With some luck we may get some proper answers to our questions from the CM/GMs or even find solutions.

Deleted User · April 2017

So far i saw 3 players, dingo790, pomcha and idioticgenius, that couldnt of explain the problem with the mods the third party programs, everything so far, if enmasse could have a debate with those 3, defending both sides staying neutral but also explaining the advatages and everything, it would be so good, yet we have ppl as i said, that doesnt even play the game, like painwheel, coming here just to troll and whiteknight and stuff, i remember him tbaging and always being racist to brs on vo, yet now he's saying nobody should use macros and stuff, i hope eme can see this kind of things and not just go blunt and listen to them, i think we are being democratic here.

DBED · April 2017

The big problem of the glitchs of the DGs is due to bad programming. The simple correction for not using these means is simply to force the player to kill the bos or mobs, to summon the next boss, causing the player to kill all the bosses in the right order.

5H96Y49G6D · April 2017

Eating popcorn insert llamma I get the feeling the reason the responses to pro proxy users are so [filtered] stupid is because they refuse to learn what it is. That lack of knowledge is preventing actual discourse from occurring because one side does not understand the other. Evident even more so when player council members use a half [filtered] analogy or claims proxy does not benefit high ping users and uh the memes.

So I'll do my job to explain it in layman terms b/c honestly who wants to read an essay to explain such a simple topic:

Issue with packet injectors:

Capture a packet> edit/copy > inject it
______________________________________________________________________

You guess right its the editing part that EME has issues with cuz der u go those are the "hacks".
Now hopefully the responses for anti prox or 3rd party users will iunno be more thoughtful?

Remember tech gurus (not one but I am familiar with the concept) you must also do your part and speak in a language that they understand. Walls of text most never read, less is more, and honesty. You know damn well how manipulative injectors are and the ignorance as to what damage they could do is priceless. Open honest discourse means discussing the bad AND good equally.

If you care my position: Neutral got low well acceptable ping 30-60 usually in 40s yep I'm in Australia

Christin · April 2017

Over twenty pages full of questions, assumptions, opinions and arguments yet not a single reply to clarify anything from EME.

That alone seems to mean nothing is allowed and no matter what the excuse or reason, EME reserves the right to ban. I also wouldn't put much stock in anything from a GM prior to this.

Thanks for adding a thread in which you chose not to participate. It's interesting reading the assumptions posted by members trying to answer questions that EME decides not to address.

MuerteDan · April 2017

Christin wrote: »

Over twenty pages full of questions, assumptions, opinions and arguments yet not a single reply to clarify anything from EME.

That alone seems to mean nothing is allowed and no matter what the excuse or reason, EME reserves the right to ban. I also wouldn't put much stock in anything from a GM prior to this.

Thanks for adding a thread in which you chose not to participate. It's interesting reading the assumptions posted by members trying to answer questions that EME decides not to address.

It seems feast or famine with EME devs and CMs. They either over react and bring everything down or ignore it entirely with no thought or anything.

But to be honest this thread is just something to try and placate forum users. There was NEVER going to be further discussion, they are NEVER going to change their rules or terms. This 20 page is just a [filtered] sandbox for us to talk at each other while they sit in Seattle without a care for us.

LesbianVi · April 2017

Christin wrote: »

Over twenty pages full of questions, assumptions, opinions and arguments yet not a single reply to clarify anything from EME.

That alone seems to mean nothing is allowed and no matter what the excuse or reason, EME reserves the right to ban. I also wouldn't put much stock in anything from a GM prior to this.

Thanks for adding a thread in which you chose not to participate. It's interesting reading the assumptions posted by members trying to answer questions that EME decides not to address.

20 page, how many have points? Also I wouldn't bring it here too, we don't need reply, we need decisions and deed. I gave a suggestion, it is up to our hardcore and codex players to follow it. I think, this thread is done, they can close it. We can approach from a professional way to them from that group chosen from community and see what will happen.

3M7EJE6A4G · April 2017

dunno if any come up that if enmasse ask bluehole to make there own dps meter that link to ur own chat to show ur dps what u do in a chat window that u cant copy or show to others unless they sit in a mic or write urself what u did in dps in a party chat and telling each others that way u see ur own dps and rotation by yourself and u cant compare to others unless u write or printscreen or tell them about it.

example: u have a dps meter chat tab that shows ur dps total after each fight. (made up numbers)
chat tab 1: name 1: 104k
chat tab 2: name 2: 150k
the chat tab shows only there own dps not the others.

so if bluehole make there own version that way it is there legal dps meter inbuild into tera.

RedNeckTA · April 2017

Christin wrote: »

Over twenty pages full of questions, assumptions, opinions and arguments yet not a single reply to clarify anything from EME.

That alone seems to mean nothing is allowed and no matter what the excuse or reason, EME reserves the right to ban. I also wouldn't put much stock in anything from a GM prior to this.

Thanks for adding a thread in which you chose not to participate. It's interesting reading the assumptions posted by members trying to answer questions that EME decides not to address.

If thats the case Ban staff members for live streaming with a 3rd party program

TheCatalyst · April 2017

Might as well put my 2 cents while the 'discussion' is open.

When Spacecat open this thread, I'm glad for the intention of open communication. But then I realized, that communicating is not this community's strong point. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread, to the point of hilarity. But that's cool. You guys know that EME have their own tech team, right? Anyway..

S1engine.ini
Modifying game file and client is indeed against ToS. And its understandable why EME will not openly allow the adjustment made to the .ini file, because only god knows what you guys gonna do to it. But the .ini file also houses parameter for your hardware. Tweaking for optimization, such as the FOV, is not modifying the game file. Tweaking is not modifying. You can actually adjust the FOV in-game through option > video > max camera distance. But the default 100% value in there is set at 60. Some of us have elin-made hardware, so those default values just doesn't cut it. This kind of optimization tweaks are meant for our OWN hardware only. If EME gonna ban people for adjusting their FOV, then good luck with that. I have no issue with it. I just know that the tweaks doesn't interfere with the game, nor does it logs back to the server. So they won't know or even notice what custom settings we have for our own hardware.

DPS meter
In other game, I would say that DPS meter is a non-malicious third party software. But I can't say the same with Tera version. I have always wondered, why does Tera version of DPS meter have a function to post the log into the chat window? It supposed to be just an overlay. Its original purpose was to collect received data which comes for your combat chat log, calculate those numbers, and display it in a neat easy-to-read form. Its not meant to interact with the game any other way. But the posting of those DPS meter to your in-game chat window shows that these third-party software apparently have an automated function. An auto/macro script. Someone obviously was experimenting with it, no wonder among those 'harmless mod' that you guys listed include auto-clicker programs.

Packet Injector
I'm not gonna elaborate on how an injector works, because people have opinions, and injector is not about opinions. First of all, injector does not improve your ping. If you have 200ms ping, then you'll have 200ms ping. You either improve your hardware, reroute your connection, or increase server bandwidth. If it can reduce ping, then why your ISP didn't used it then? Why VPN/GPN such as WTFast didn't use it? The answer is because packet injector is detrimental to the network infrastructure. Anyone who knows how network infrastructure works will know that increased injected packet means reduced ratio of received packet. In other word, lag in the server. So you guys have been complaining about lag these past several months, I was completely flabbergasted when some of you openly and blatantly admitted that you have been using packet injector. What the heck, man? So all this time, you guys have been partly contributing to the problem. No wonder that EME had improved their server infrastructure, rerouted connections to their data center, and the problem still persist. Because you guys have been packet injectin' all this time!!

Well, that's all for my 2 cents.
Respect the spirit of the game, you guys.
:pleased:

Deleted User · April 2017

TheCatalyst wrote: »

Might as well put my 2 cents while the 'discussion' is open.

When Spacecat open this thread, I'm glad for the intention of open communication. But then I realized, that communicating is not this community's strong point. There is a lot of misinformation in this thread, to the point of hilarity. But that's cool. You guys know that EME have their own tech team, right? Anyway..

S1engine.ini
Modifying game file and client is indeed against ToS. And its understandable why EME will not openly allow the adjustment made to the .ini file, because only god knows what you guys gonna do to it. But the .ini file also houses parameter for your hardware. Tweaking for optimization, such as the FOV, is not modifying the game file. Tweaking is not modifying. You can actually adjust the FOV in-game through option > video > max camera distance. But the default 100% value in there is set at 60. Some of us have elin-made hardware, so those default values just doesn't cut it. This kind of optimization tweaks are meant for our OWN hardware only. If EME gonna ban people for adjusting their FOV, then good luck with that. I have no issue with it. I just know that the tweaks doesn't interfere with the game, nor does it logs back to the server. So they won't know or even notice what custom settings we have for our own hardware.

DPS meter
In other game, I would say that DPS meter is a non-malicious third party software. But I can't say the same with Tera version. I have always wondered, why does Tera version of DPS meter have a function to post the log into the chat window? It supposed to be just an overlay. Its original purpose was to collect received data which comes for your combat chat log, calculate those numbers, and display it in a neat easy-to-read form. Its not meant to interact with the game any other way. But the posting of those DPS meter to your in-game chat window shows that these third-party software apparently have an automated function. An auto/macro script. Someone obviously was experimenting with it, no wonder among those 'harmless mod' that you guys listed include auto-clicker programs.

Packet Injector
I'm not gonna elaborate on how an injector works, because people have opinions, and injector is not about opinions. First of all, injector does not improve your ping. If you have 200ms ping, then you'll have 200ms ping. You either improve your hardware, reroute your connection, or increase server bandwidth. If it can reduce ping, then why your ISP didn't used it then? Why VPN/GPN such as WTFast didn't use it? The answer is because packet injector is detrimental to the network infrastructure. Anyone who knows how network infrastructure works will know that increased injected packet means reduced ratio of received packet. In other word, lag in the server. So you guys have been complaining about lag these past several months, I was completely flabbergasted when some of you openly and blatantly admitted that you have been using packet injector. What the heck, man? So all this time, you guys have been partly contributing to the problem. No wonder that EME had improved their server infrastructure, rerouted connections to their data center, and the problem still persist. Because you guys have been packet injectin' all this time!!

Well, that's all for my 2 cents.
Respect the spirit of the game, you guys.
:pleased:

The packet injector program it's not more than some months old, mb with generosity a year old for what i read on this threads what the devs of the mod been saying, server lag's been a problem since ninja, and that was longway before the injector, so what is the problem then? i even remember server lags when brawler came out, gunner and reaper, for weeks until it normalized, the problem with the lags on the server is the amount of players on it, it's not constant and it's spiking, 1 day you have for example 400 players on one server, the next day you have 200, then the next day mb 500, and it's all the time like that, i belive that's what causing the server spikes, it's different than vm1 gears for example, population was constant and so the ping, i dont recall having ping problems back then.

AEFH9EGJMA · April 2017

TheCatalyst wrote: »

Packet Injector
I'm not gonna elaborate on how an injector works, because people have opinions, and injector is not about opinions. First of all, injector does not improve your ping. If you have 200ms ping, then you'll have 200ms ping. You either improve your hardware, reroute your connection, or increase server bandwidth. If it can reduce ping, then why your ISP didn't used it then? Why VPN/GPN such as WTFast didn't use it? The answer is because packet injector is detrimental to the network infrastructure. Anyone who knows how network infrastructure works will know that increased injected packet means reduced ratio of received packet. In other word, lag in the server. So you guys have been complaining about lag these past several months, I was completely flabbergasted when some of you openly and blatantly admitted that you have been using packet injector. What the heck, man? So all this time, you guys have been partly contributing to the problem. No wonder that EME had improved their server infrastructure, rerouted connections to their data center, and the problem still persist. Because you guys have been packet injectin' all this time!!

Well, that's all for my 2 cents.
Respect the spirit of the game, you guys.
:pleased:

This is why this forum will go nowhere. First you say "injector is not about opinions" then you go on and give a completely false explanation of how injectors work. If you want to contribute, stop being ignorant and go learn what it does, the code is open source on github. And this applies to 90-95% of the posts in here. Ignorance, ignorance, ignorance.

Also TERA uses TCP and not UDP, so you're even ignorant about basic network protocols, not just injection.

Seacok · April 2017

Just kill the game already and be done with it :^) Problem solved

Melyodis · April 2017

AEFH9EGJMA wrote: »

TheCatalyst wrote: »

Packet Injector
I'm not gonna elaborate on how an injector works, because people have opinions, and injector is not about opinions. First of all, injector does not improve your ping. If you have 200ms ping, then you'll have 200ms ping. You either improve your hardware, reroute your connection, or increase server bandwidth. If it can reduce ping, then why your ISP didn't used it then? Why VPN/GPN such as WTFast didn't use it? The answer is because packet injector is detrimental to the network infrastructure. Anyone who knows how network infrastructure works will know that increased injected packet means reduced ratio of received packet. In other word, lag in the server. So you guys have been complaining about lag these past several months, I was completely flabbergasted when some of you openly and blatantly admitted that you have been using packet injector. What the heck, man? So all this time, you guys have been partly contributing to the problem. No wonder that EME had improved their server infrastructure, rerouted connections to their data center, and the problem still persist. Because you guys have been packet injectin' all this time!!

Well, that's all for my 2 cents.
Respect the spirit of the game, you guys.
:pleased:

This is why this forum will go nowhere. First you say "injector is not about opinions" then you go on and give a completely false explanation of how injectors work. If you want to contribute, stop being ignorant and go learn what it does, the code is open source on github. And this applies to 90-95% of the posts in here. Ignorance, ignorance, ignorance.

Also TERA uses TCP and not UDP, so you're even ignorant about basic network protocols, not just injection.

it seems like you know better than anyone since 90-95% of the members that post here are ignorant so teach us what a Packet Injector does cause it seems like that's all people can do on this forum point out who is wrong. What I wonder is if ktera community complain like we do here hmm good question I wonder?

@AEFH9EGJMA COME ON TEACH US BABY.

The 3rd Party Thread

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