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The 3rd Party Thread

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Comments

  • Chriseh wrote: »
    I'm not trying to make an excuse for EME or dissuade you from your arguments because they are valid points, and ones I too would like to see implemented. Quite a few quality of life changes mentioned in this thread are ones the Player Council have already suggested.

    The sad and ugly truth is that EME can't do much other than forward feedback to BHS, since they're the ones who provide the patch builds and any patch fixes that are necessary along the way. Treeshark had even mentioned this point a few times. Don't quote me on how by the letter this is, I can only tell you what I know. With that said, this isn't knowledge that only the PC has access to.

    All this talk of EU, RU and KR, and how they're using 3rd party programs and their region isn't banning them. I admit, It's unfair. Even knowing what I wrote in my last post https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/comment/138980/#Comment_138980 and what I'm about to say, it doesn't do anything to minimise the unfairness of it all. It does however lend you some insight into why EME has reacted the way it has.

    You have to consider some things first; The developer of the proxy is from NA, and so are a lot of the well known scripters that we keep seeing referred to. That makes us origin A. The other regions are merely an aftershock. A knee [filtered] reaction to whatever happens here.

    I recently learned a quote "those with power granted by their authority fear those who are more powerful without need of such authority." Translation; EME is concerned of what could be next, given that these scripters are playing in grounds that have unlimited and endless potential for things to go wrong. It's ignorant to think it couldn't.

    What's worse is that the culture surrounding all of this use to be secret, now it's getting more boastful and resourceful as more people come on board. There are discussions about how the emporium exploit has been around since the introduction of it, yet this wasn't widely known by players of the game. At least not until recently, when someone decided to do it and boast their efforts in a place they felt safe enough to do so. The same goes for yesterdays incident with people accessing the GM panel.

    That there is a problem and should be a concern to everyone, whether you're a user of these programs or not. The grey area is getting greyer by the day, and with no limitations put on such a group, YOU should be concerned where this is headed.

    Games like Blizzard at least have their own interface to kill addons that break the ToS. We have no such thing. Once a script is made and out there, it's out there for good for anyone who gets their hands on it to use. DPS meter and packet injecting to help low ping were all helpful, but you can't overlook the potential for how wrong this can get and how quickly it's approaching that line. There's already quite a few questionable scripts.

    Question remains, what's next? And the answer to that is what's clearly sparked a response from EME, when they were otherwise for the most part silent on the topic.

    don't kid yourself chriseh, just because you stand for something different doesn't make you any less of white knight. you just white knight for another cause. at least this person is seeing both points, all you do is call people fagot all day and tell them how wrong they are for providing a reasonable and thought out perspective.
  • Funny thing is, ppl that was using dps meters, injectors for skill chaining and tweaks for better fps are afraid to even play the game, today i got on fwc, and i got leashed by a lancer, for 50m, sucks i cant record that cus tera cant handle a recording during pvp, but those players with huge "desync" are out there doing w/e with actual cheats and staying on the shadows, while the rest of the community is afraid to do anything. I dont understand why it's so hard to just give it a try and listen to what the community asks for once...
  • ZeRoHouR95 wrote: »
    Funny thing is, ppl that was using dps meters, injectors for skill chaining and tweaks for better fps are afraid to even play the game, today i got on fwc, and i got leashed by a lancer, for 50m, sucks i cant record that cus tera cant handle a recording during pvp, but those players with huge "desync" are out there doing w/e with actual cheats and staying on the shadows, while the rest of the community is afraid to do anything. I dont understand why it's so hard to just give it a try and listen to what the community asks for once...

    What's your ping?

    I have a super high ping and sometimes in FWC I get leashed from insanely far away (when I'm running away) but they aren't doing anything wrong, relative to them I am much closer because they see me where I was, not where I am.
  • Personally, and I don't know how many share my sentiment, but I'd like to see less bickering among ourselves and more interaction from at least one of the moderators, because I don't think I've seen anything from any moderator in about 20 pages of this thread, and I'm very interested in their thoughts on some of the more on-topic points made here. As for the rest, I think a lot of people are very passionate about the subject and need to sit back and think a little longer about what they're typing instead of attacking their fellow players because their opinions differ.
  • ChrisehChriseh ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    KentaGrace wrote: »
    Personally, and I don't know how many share my sentiment, but I'd like to see less bickering among ourselves and more interaction from at least one of the moderators, because I don't think I've seen anything from any moderator in about 20 pages of this thread, and I'm very interested in their thoughts on some of the more on-topic points made here. As for the rest, I think a lot of people are very passionate about the subject and need to sit back and think a little longer about what they're typing instead of attacking their fellow players because their opinions differ.

    A sentiment I can get behind. No EME staff are on during the weekend to reply, so if this thread does see a response it'll be on Monday. Re-linking this here: https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/comment/139403/#Comment_139403
  • YitharYithar ✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    WakFu wrote: »
    I love this thread, we thought it would be discussion between us and EME, but it's just us arguing with each other instead of with EME.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, Spacecats is an evil genius.

    >we thought it would be discussion between us and EME

    cmon now... You didn't ACTUALLY think that did you?

    IMO this thread is here to consolidate all the bickering about certain tools so moderators don't have to do all that work of locking multiple threads about the same topic and whatnot.

    https://tera-forums.enmasse.com/forums/general-discussion/topics/Player-Feedback-is-crucial?page=5#post-1402942

    Also, I'm pretty sure they don't work on weekends.
  • Everyone who uses DPS Meter needs a warning to quit. DPS Meter should not be allowed because it inject/hook itself into Tera. It is a hack. Everyone here complaining about 3rd party programs, but it's not beginners who are using those 3rd party programs, it's the cheaters in Battleground, in Dungeons, the Elitist. Those who abuse the program to get faster animations, faster cool down. Their excuse is, "My Ping," to make it fair. It's not fair at all. Their faster reactions, time, is more faster than those who have 0ping, and it won't ever be on equal ground.

    You can complain all day, at the end of the day you're hacking the game and getting advantages where you shouldn't. DPS Meter is no different because it is an injector/hook into Tera and anyone who is using such program to modify Tera should be banned. This discussion shouldn't even be had at all. The problem is the clarifications on En Masse. En Masse needs to clarify more clearer what they're going after instead of this broad view outlook that is fear mongering the community.
  • Chriseh wrote: »
    A sentiment I can get behind. No EME staff are on during the weekend to reply, so if this thread does see a response it'll be on Monday. Re-linking this here: https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/comment/139403/#Comment_139403

    And the response will be: closing this thread because it's filled with players attacking each other blah blah your favorite CM Danicia oh wait. Making this thread entirely pointless from the start, but hey most people here still have a few hours to keep fighting and people like me can enjoy their popcorn everybody wins right?
  • got tired of reading all the posts about halfway threw but heres my 2cents on this whole 3rd party thing

    i play in oklahoma usa and when it comes to ping and pinglaggs/spikes this game rly does take the cake my old apt before i moved had such a [filtered] connection to the same internet i use now that my ping was anywhere from 70-150ms most days trying to pvp for me was a never happen and doing dungeons over my gears carry rate was impossiable but i was willing to try anything then so i tried some 3rd party vpns etc. and they not only reduced my ping up to 50-75% but also allowed me to pvp since ive moved ive not had the need for vpns etc. becuz my ping is decent maybe not 0-15ms but normally around the 30-50ms range so thats my take on ping if your going to take away the software devd for us to help us be able to play the game along side other competetive players your going to have to figure out your own way of reducing ping EVERYWHERE also when i fixed my ping i decided to try pvp/pve again not just log in for events then not play for months so for dungeons i started using a dps meter it not only helped me learn my class better by allowing me to see which skills followed by which will maximize my dps but it also allowed me when healing to help better other players in runs for when i was using it (which i havent in a long time but eh i jsut started playing again with valk release i had to quit shortly after the ninja release becuz i lost internet) but as a healer i could not only monitor where my dps where etc. but i was able to watch their skill rotations and also see what the dps they were getting was i once had a reaper in KCNM who for the first two bosses was my bottom dps (basically right above me) and they were from another server (im party) so i couldnt see rolls etc only gear picture and crystals but after second boss they asked me how i was posting the dps for them and i explained it was a meter to watch dps and they asked how they could be on top of that ladder so i asked them some questions on their gear etc. then asked how they had skill rolls etc/glyphs and was able to help them IN DUNGEON get some better crit rates (which they had no meters no vpns etc. tht i knew of) and by knowing they were low dpsing them asking for help me giving it after 3rd boss they had took 2nd place in dps so ive never seen a malicious way to use dps meters now that being said i understand that some ppl are elitists who dont want lowbies etc. in their runs good for you dont IM ive said it before and ill say it again if your a top player who thinks your a god who only wants to play with other gods then do that lfg on your server and get you a group with the same mindframe the majority of players r not eliteists and should not be treated as such im a very experienced gamer you hand me any game ill have it mastered before to long as long as im not having to carry a bunch of ppl that dont rly game no im not an eliteist i dont prefere to play at the top because i find more friends in the lower end players because they r open to help/advice most of the time half this game at endgame lvl 65 is based on understanding your class and knowing which skills to hit and when to counter the mechanics given to us to make the game more challenging so as the game progresses and gets more challenging the fixes for ping and other issues need to be dealt with if 3rd party software is not the answer then give us one i dont know anything about injectors or how they work tho seeing them delete delays that the game is naturally supposed to delete itself when your ping is GOOD then id say at that resemblence they could be useful but im sure as with any other software they could be manipulated for mods,cheats,exploits and the such no game is perfect tho we wish it was tera has a vast community who ive seen ask for help multiple times to be given nothing but were working on it responses BHS built this game for koreans in korea so all whove said it caters to them and their country size i totally agree they need to either A. fix the code to allow for bigger communitys of players or B. allow eme to do that for their own client and yes i know BHS codes this game but i used to play ultima online from ea games and there are SOOOOO many private servers of that game its ridiculous and if eme wants tera to be the same way they need communication with their community in ultima there were cheats you could use one being easyuo (and no it has nothing to do with tera at all) it was a macro code building tool to allow you to do things with you characters while being afk (train/spam/etc.) it could do everything from spam skills to allow you to train them to make your character follow a specifically designed path to harvest in game materials while you were away on EAS main server this was illegal as 3rd party software is here afk macroing was a bannable offense tho their ban system was a great deal more lenient then EMES first offense was a week 2nd was 1-3 months and 3rd was perma ban and that game was alot more complicated to an exten when building your character becuz it took SOOOO long to get skill gains sometimes that you could play for a week and still not get skills to max lvls tera is much easier in lvling system but mechanics r more up to date and complicated so for anyone with lagg there needs to be a sure fire FIX

    @Spacecats i love everything you do for us here in the tera community and i know your not the main one pulling strings theres a system but people rly need clarification on what can get you bann hammered


    and since this whole uprising ive not changed a single way i play becuz i dont cheat or mod or exploit anything but im just one person and the problem here isnt just one person AKA the devs who made the tools the community uses its the ppl who misuse the tools and those are who i see should be dealt with all games invoke a certain statistic against cheating no one appreciates working hard for something while someone else finds a cheat etc. and gets it in one day so if your a cheater and cant play games without cheating then just quit nobody likes trolls but thus we will always have them so eme needs to be on the rdy for cheaters etc. but dont drop ban hammers where they rnt needed all you do is cause an uproar and [filtered] like this is time consuming and keeps eme from being able to do their job and try to find ways to FIX anything
  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    W7GNYAP55A wrote: »
    Everyone who uses DPS Meter needs a warning to quit. DPS Meter should not be allowed because it inject/hook itself into Tera. It is a hack. Everyone here complaining about 3rd party programs, but it's not beginners who are using those 3rd party programs, it's the cheaters in Battleground, in Dungeons, the Elitist. Those who abuse the program to get faster animations, faster cool down. Their excuse is, "My Ping," to make it fair. It's not fair at all. Their faster reactions, time, is more faster than those who have 0ping, and it won't ever be on equal ground.

    You can complain all day, at the end of the day you're hacking the game and getting advantages where you shouldn't. DPS Meter is no different because it is an injector/hook into Tera and anyone who is using such program to modify Tera should be banned. This discussion shouldn't even be had at all. The problem is the clarifications on En Masse. En Masse needs to clarify more clearer what they're going after instead of this broad view outlook that is fear mongering the community.

    Meter just reads what is sent between your computer and the server. It just takes the numbers and adds them up in an easy to read format.

    Injector doesn't change anything about your skills. Doesn't change cooldowns, animations, buff duration, reaction time. It just emulates you having 15 ping instead of over 100+. It doesn't even do it perfectly as your timing for iframes and blocks is still X ping. Some of the programs like auto-block cancel are basically cheats though. I won't excuse those. But for the most part, it just makes it feel like you have low ping.

    Please educate yourself before speaking about the matter.
  • Guessing this is less about what 3rd party programs actually do and more about meeting cross play requirements with consoles?
  • Izaloth wrote: »
    Guessing this is less about what 3rd party programs actually do and more about meeting cross play requirements with consoles?

    Gold lol

    @HondaLover TL;DR why this thread got so many Walls.....
  • edited May 2017
    Hello everyone,

    Sorry if i say anything wrong. Let me apologise first if i misunderstood the programs or anything.

    Just want to keep this post back on track a little. I personally feel that certain 3rd party softwares which emulate a lower ping should be allowed. As mentioned in @Idi0ticGenius analogy, walking is like a basic right. Aka being able to use skills at their intended performance where rapid fire or burst fire is actually rapid/burst. With the use of the program, Players are not able to fire all 7 hits of RF 0.1 milliseconds. Players at high ping are just able to emulate what low ping players can do with the same skill - firing off RF in the same 0.8 seconds(if not more) or so instead of 2seconds. No, this does not give higher ping players an advantage over low ping ones. It generally evens the playing field as many others have tried to mention. This playing field we are talking about is a good 20-40% in terms of dps. Between two lower ping players one who uses it and one who does not, I really haven't done the math but i don't think it will make much of a difference that forces a lower ping player to want to use it as much.

    With regards to @Yamazuki's analogy, I do not consider this aspect(and only this aspect, not the auto blocking etc) of the program 'juicing'. I do not empathise with your analogy because Juicing pushes you to do more than what you are able to do. For example if i am slow in reaction by nature, I am still gonna miss that iframe timing or block timing. If i inject myself with some adrenaline to improve my reflexes then yes your analogy would hold. Its like i am 50 years old and I can't react as fast as an 18 year old playing this game.

    If i were to understand what you are trying to use as an analogy in reference to what @Idi0ticGenius is trying to say is that you think that people are trying to use an electric wheelchair to go further, faster and easier than what normal people walking can do but it is not the case.

    Right now we are not talking about competitive edge or any of that sort of dps race. We just want to be able to do the same thing as what lower ping players can do. We just want to get to the destination be it by prosthetic limbs, a wheel chair or clutches. We can crawl there to get to the same place as well, it is no doubt possible but why can't the rest of us be given this same oppotunity?

    Personally, I wanna test these programs out because RF is now the most core skill on archer. Yes, high ping builds exist, but a skill that has a low animation lock, high dps( with guaranteed crit). It was no longer about dishing out raw numbers.

    This thread lacks clarity on which programs are discussed and are hence causing so much mayhem even within the programs itself there are useful and harmful scripts. I hope this does not count as a call out as i was merely referencing these players who are trying to help.
  • CeciellaCeciella ✭✭
    edited April 2017
    I'm going to piggyback to the post before mine and reiterate something that I said earlier with images. The counterargument that this is just "how the game is meant to be played at high ping" doesn't account for that the game was absolutely not intended to be played with another audience besides their own in mind. The geographic differences in size between the US alone and South Korea are massive in terms of both connection speed and physical landmass which is probably best demonstrated below.

    9UTqaSs.jpg

    That's an actual size map of how large their nation is when imposed over the state of California. Now try to imagine that compared to the rest of the United States alone.

    Please also keep in mind that South Korea also has the fastest average connection in the world.
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