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what if eme did this

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Comments

  • AEFH9EGJMAAEFH9EGJMA ✭✭
    counterpoint wrote: »
    AEFH9EGJMA wrote: »
    counterpoint wrote: »
    What I said was that EME is not in a position to guarantee forward compatibility with BHS's game. BHS is the only one who can do that, because they're the only ones who really know the TERA netcode from the inside (and what's actually coming going forward). And if BHS does it, they can just program the things into the game itself so it's pointless...

    Why do you think the proxy devs (complete outsiders with no access to source code) can update the program to be compatible 5 minutes after a major patch?? And don't give me the "if BHS does it", they haven't done anything to fix the game in years.

    ...but that's not ensuring forward compatibility ("making sure [it] will not conflict with any future patches"), now is it? Unless you're really suggesting "every time EME receives a patch from BHS, they will modify the code of the tool themselves so that it will continue to work with the latest game code from BHS." (Suffice it to say, they will never, ever do that.)

    I think the conversation you want to have with/against me and the conversation in this thread are completely different.
    This is why I'm telling you to get informed by reading the git. Updating the program to be compatible with the next patch takes 10 minutes even for an inexperienced coder. Stop imagining how it works, go learn how it actually works.
  • counterpointcounterpoint mod
    edited April 2017
    AEFH9EGJMA wrote: »
    counterpoint wrote: »
    AEFH9EGJMA wrote: »
    counterpoint wrote: »
    What I said was that EME is not in a position to guarantee forward compatibility with BHS's game. BHS is the only one who can do that, because they're the only ones who really know the TERA netcode from the inside (and what's actually coming going forward). And if BHS does it, they can just program the things into the game itself so it's pointless...

    Why do you think the proxy devs (complete outsiders with no access to source code) can update the program to be compatible 5 minutes after a major patch?? And don't give me the "if BHS does it", they haven't done anything to fix the game in years.

    ...but that's not ensuring forward compatibility ("making sure [it] will not conflict with any future patches"), now is it? Unless you're really suggesting "every time EME receives a patch from BHS, they will modify the code of the tool themselves so that it will continue to work with the latest game code from BHS." (Suffice it to say, they will never, ever do that.)

    I think the conversation you want to have with/against me and the conversation in this thread are completely different.
    This is why I'm telling you to get informed by reading the git. Updating the program to be compatible with the next patch takes 10 minutes even for an inexperienced coder. Stop imagining how it works, go learn how it actually works.

    But, again, that has absolutely nothing to do whatsoever with this thread. The "skillset" I was talking about was not simply knowing how Node.js works (EME has a whole web team that knows Node/Ruby/etc.), it was being in a position to know whether code will be forward-compatible with the game in future patches. That requires being on the inside, and that's not their role. That was the entire point of the comment.

    I am actually quite well aware of the code. Are we done playing this attempted "gotcha" game?
  • AEFH9EGJMAAEFH9EGJMA ✭✭
    edited April 2017
    counterpoint wrote: »
    I am actually quite well aware of the code. Are we done playing this attempted "gotcha" game?
    If you are well aware of the code then you'd also know that forward compatible is a matter of double clicking an EXE file... Which is why the said third party program and DPS meter gets updated within minutes of a new patch.

    I really don't think you know what you're talking about at all.
  • counterpointcounterpoint mod
    edited April 2017
    AEFH9EGJMA wrote: »
    counterpoint wrote: »
    I am actually quite well aware of the code. Are we done playing this attempted "gotcha" game?
    If you are well aware of the code then you'd also know that forward compatible is a matter of double clicking an EXE file... Which is why the said third party program and DPS meter gets updated within minutes of a new patch.

    I really don't think you know what you're talking about at all.
    No. That is not what "ensuring forward-compatibility" means at all, actually. (You're talking about maintaining compatibility by constantly patching it with each update.) It has absolutely nothing to do with the main point that EME would never do this. But okay, way to put me in my place... Cheers...
  • AEFH9EGJMAAEFH9EGJMA ✭✭
    counterpoint wrote: »
    AEFH9EGJMA wrote: »
    counterpoint wrote: »
    I am actually quite well aware of the code. Are we done playing this attempted "gotcha" game?
    If you are well aware of the code then you'd also know that forward compatible is a matter of double clicking an EXE file... Which is why the said third party program and DPS meter gets updated within minutes of a new patch.

    I really don't think you know what you're talking about at all.
    No. That is not what "ensuring forward-compatibility" means at all, actually. (You're talking about maintaining compatibility by constantly patching it with each update.) It has absolutely nothing to do with the main point that EME would never do this. But okay, way to put me in my place... Cheers...
    Yes because your concern is that BHS will completely rewrite the packet engine for a 10 year old game for no good reason. Stop digging yourself into deeper holes please and just admit your ignorance or that your point is completely irrelevant.
  • seraphinushseraphinush ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2017
    AEFH9EGJMA wrote: »
    counterpoint wrote: »
    AEFH9EGJMA wrote: »
    counterpoint wrote: »
    I am actually quite well aware of the code. Are we done playing this attempted "gotcha" game?
    If you are well aware of the code then you'd also know that forward compatible is a matter of double clicking an EXE file... Which is why the said third party program and DPS meter gets updated within minutes of a new patch.

    I really don't think you know what you're talking about at all.
    No. That is not what "ensuring forward-compatibility" means at all, actually. (You're talking about maintaining compatibility by constantly patching it with each update.) It has absolutely nothing to do with the main point that EME would never do this. But okay, way to put me in my place... Cheers...
    Yes because your concern is that BHS will completely rewrite the packet engine for a 10 year old game for no good reason. Stop digging yourself into deeper holes please and just admit your ignorance or that your point is completely irrelevant.
    Though i do vouch for fixes and optimization (with which i believe the solutions are already out there), i have to agree with Counterpoint on this one. making those updates every future patch which may or may not create more bugs (which i believe the latter) is not going to happen, especially if it will jeopardize the relationship between the developer and the publisher. and it's a sort of different relationship than between the publisher and the community which enforces more rules than what's currently happening right now.

    I think the first thing EME could do is accept that certain changes in the file does help increase frame rate quite a bit (our job to make that work), and have EME convince BHS that this does work. now the changes are something that KTERA players are doing as well, so we could get more support for these changes on an international scale..

    Deadlocked.
  • allofspaceandtimeallofspaceandtime ✭✭✭✭✭
    hopefully it could be something eme could pass along to bhs without jeopardizing their relations with bhs. even if they fail to convince them, then the people that have been posting hateful things towards eme, to each other, could see it and either accept it and move forward or they can do whatever their alternative was they had in mind. i would like to have better game play , as long as it was something eme/bhs puts in themselves, but im not going to resort to using 3rd party programs and risk getting banned or getting some virus or whatever.
    i made this post in hopes that the others would read it and see that we don't have to resort to anger , threats, or accusations to get our point across. and i want to thank all the ones that did comment in here for you respectful comments. i was worried that it was going to get a little hairy there for a moment, but the 2 seemed to squash it and kept it toned down, and for that i thank you guys.
  • ElyannElyann ✭✭✭
    seraphinush wrote: »
    Wouldn't they have to get BHS' permission to do so?

    and the original programs developers permission....( which I don't think they'll get after they banned them )
    allofspaceandtime wrote: »
    what if the staff from eme could get together ( after reading the forums this weekend ) and maybe download the program from github or wherever they have it at, then go through the program and fix anything they feel needs fixing or tweaking, then run another test server like they did last month, to see if there is any difference in performance and such. then make sure it cant be used for malicious intent, and not conflict with any future patches, then implement it in the game. it would take maybe a few months or so to make sure. I think that would be a good idea. maybe we could pitch the idea to spacecats and he can pass it along to someone that has the power to do this.
    this whole mess is doing nothing but dividing the players and creating animosity towards ones with different views. instead of fighting each other and blaming spacecats or eme, why don't we come together as a community and push for this idea in a respectful way.
    all this name calling, posting hate filled comments and posts , and pointing fingers isn't going to accomplish anything except more division and closing of posts. I imagine by now spacecats, noeisis, and everyone else at eme has read these posts and pretty much stopped. they know why you want these programs and your reasons. I know many feel they needed to blow off some steam. that's unstandable. but if we continue to act that way, the posts will escalate into the hate and get closed down time after time. now its time to find a civil, respectful way of getting your ideas across.
    so I ask the player council members to read this and maybe get together with each other and then with whomever they talk to at eme and pitch this idea to them. it may work, it may not. but we will never know until we give it a try.
    thanks

    Also...they won't. They do not only need a lot of permissions but they don't even have (any or not many ) coders in their team, so they wouldn't be able to understand how said programs work.
  • ElyannElyann ✭✭✭
    counterpoint wrote: »
    AEFH9EGJMA wrote: »
    counterpoint wrote: »
    What I said was that EME is not in a position to guarantee forward compatibility with BHS's game. BHS is the only one who can do that, because they're the only ones who really know the TERA netcode from the inside (and what's actually coming going forward). And if BHS does it, they can just program the things into the game itself so it's pointless...

    Why do you think the proxy devs (complete outsiders with no access to source code) can update the program to be compatible 5 minutes after a major patch?? And don't give me the "if BHS does it", they haven't done anything to fix the game in years.

    ...but that's not ensuring forward compatibility ("making sure [it] will not conflict with any future patches"), now is it? Unless you're really suggesting "every time EME receives a patch from BHS, they will modify the code of the tool themselves so that it will continue to work with the latest game code from BHS." (Suffice it to say, they will never, ever do that.)

    I think the conversation you want to have with/against me and the conversation in this thread are completely different.

    excuse me Counterpoint but...
    That's exactly what these programs developers were doing. They were updating the programs every time, they kept doing it for years and they kept solving compatibility issues for 4-5 years. They are players and they were doing a "developers" job. If BHS or EME don't want to take the responsibilities that their professions imply.....then I have nothing else to discuss with you.
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