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Un-equalized gear in FWC

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Comments

  • ElinerdElinerd ✭✭
    What I say all the time, you can pay, but it doesn't mean you can win. The other day it was RM jackpot drop events, did RMH with this reaper, full +15 ambush, but rookie on clears. As expected, dies at least 20 times at lachelith, doesn't know in out, doesn't know tail swipe, doesn't know back slam, lasers, push back. [filtered] I don't think they knew ANY of the mechanics at all.

    Anyways, that is off topic.

    All for uneq FWC. Gears don't grow on trees, people worked hard for them, and they should at least be able to use it. Don't be fooled guys, equalize doesn't mean balanced.
    I didn't reply to that guy because he didn't really read what my initial post said, but I'll reply to you because there is a huge flaw in your thinking here. You're talking about PVE where there is a fairly high skill ceiling. You CAN pay to win in large scale PVP like FWC because as it stands un-equalization would allow many classes god mode against 99.9% of the other players who don't have gear. The skill ceiling is floored when unbalanced gear and classes are put into the mix.

    Gear gives you a distinct edge over others and with the way gear progression has been for years, it's simply not fair when there are many people who will buy their way into it. And far more people who will never be able to grind their way up. It is P2W despite if you gear up the legit way or not, and it's just not fair. And I'm not just crying about having to gear up or whatever I just like a healthy FWC population. I'm very sure ditching EQ would destroy the queue, but who even knows how it will pop next month anyway.
  • CuckCuck ✭✭
    What I say all the time, you can pay, but it doesn't mean you can win. The other day it was RM jackpot drop events, did RMH with this reaper, full +15 ambush, but rookie on clears. As expected, dies at least 20 times at lachelith, doesn't know in out, doesn't know tail swipe, doesn't know back slam, lasers, push back. [filtered] I don't think they knew ANY of the mechanics at all.

    Anyways, that is off topic.

    All for uneq FWC. Gears don't grow on trees, people worked hard for them, and they should at least be able to use it. Don't be fooled guys, equalize doesn't mean balanced.
    You're talking about PVE where there is a fairly high skill ceiling. You CAN pay to win in large scale PVP like FWC because as it stands un-equalization would allow many classes god mode against 99.9% of the other players who don't have gear. The skill ceiling is floored when unbalanced gear and classes are put into the mix.

    Gear gives you a distinct edge over others and with the way gear progression has been for years, it's simply not fair when there are many people who will buy their way into it. And far more people who will never EVER be able to grind their way up. It is P2W despite if you gear up the legit way or not, and it's just not fair. And I'm not just crying about having to gear up or whatever I just like a healthy FWC population. I'm very sure ditching EQ would destroy the queue, but who even knows how it will pop next month anyway.
  • edited May 2017
    [filtered] wrote: »
    I'm very sure ditching EQ would destroy the queue, but who even knows how it will pop next month anyway.
    Well, we know from past history that this isn't the case, because it was even more popular before when it was unequalized, and this was when there was +15 gear (and arguably even more gear-slanted than now). So there's at least no basis to say that this change alone would destroy the queue or be less popular, because we already have historical evidence to prove otherwise.

    That doesn't mean you don't have a fair argument in general, but there's a limit to how much weight it can carry when we already know what the alternative was actually like.

  • CuckCuck ✭✭
    Also I'm not saying I hate un-equalized PVP, I did thousands of FWC before vm2 came out and thought that was just great. But EQ is good for the current dead and poorly balanced game I've looked at this year.
  • CuckCuck ✭✭
    [filtered] wrote: »
    I'm very sure ditching EQ would destroy the queue, but who even knows how it will pop next month anyway.
    Well, we know from past history that this isn't the case, because it was even more popular before when it was unequalized, and this was when there was +15 gear (and arguably even more gear-slanted than now). So there's at least no basis to say that this change alone would destroy the queue or be less popular, because we already have historical evidence to prove otherwise.

    That doesn't mean you don't have a fair argument in general, but there's a limit to how much weight it can carry when we already know what the alternative was actually like.
    I can imagine this being folly evidence though as the game is presumably much older than it was when FWC went EQ last. I don't even know when that was though!
  • edited May 2017
    [filtered] wrote: »
    [filtered] wrote: »
    I'm very sure ditching EQ would destroy the queue, but who even knows how it will pop next month anyway.
    Well, we know from past history that this isn't the case, because it was even more popular before when it was unequalized, and this was when there was +15 gear (and arguably even more gear-slanted than now). So there's at least no basis to say that this change alone would destroy the queue or be less popular, because we already have historical evidence to prove otherwise.

    That doesn't mean you don't have a fair argument in general, but there's a limit to how much weight it can carry when we already know what the alternative was actually like.
    I can imagine this being folly evidence though as the game is presumably much older than it was when FWC went EQ last. I don't even know when that was though!

    The change to equalized happened in October 2016 in the Spellbound update. Here is one of the many forum threads from when it happened:
    https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/8062/fraywind-is-now-equalized/p1

    The overwhelming response on the forum at the time was to revert the change (and that's why the staff are still pursuing it to this day).
  • CuckCuck ✭✭
    Guess Conflate was some good stuff then. Well, we'll see what happens.
  • MiskuChanMiskuChan ✭✭✭
    [filtered] wrote: »
    Also I'm not saying I hate un-equalized PVP, I did thousands of FWC before vm2 came out and thought that was just great. But EQ is good for the current dead and poorly balanced game I've looked at this year.

    LOL this is the most succinct way it can be said, literally how dead do you want this game to become before they stop repeating past mistakes.
  • saltedcaramelsaltedcaramel ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    I would do FWC again if it got unequalized. Current equalized gear favors burst classes far too much. Healing in equalized gear gets really interesting as well; try it it you haven't already.

    Yes I understand that FWC is the most rewarding bg. Let those players who have worked hard to get geared have a place to use their gear. Let those who've worked hard be rewarded for it. And for those that aren't in VM, Conflate isn't bad...

    If people are worried about quality of games (aka premades snowballing matches), my suggestion would be to make fwc premade-only (make it such that you have to queue in pt of at least 2). That way I think FWC would be more interesting (better than a fully geared premade roflstomping 15 newbies).
  • Healing in equalized gear gets really interesting as well; try it it you haven't already.
    Ha... Haha... Ha.
    As a priest, please put me out of my misery.
    As an archer, who cares about focusing healers with equalized gear, they can barely do [filtered] anyway.

    I kid, but when Focus Heal heals for roughly 10k it sure feels like the only heals worth a damn are Healing Immersion, Healing Circle, and glyphed Kaia's Shield. Healing in equalized gear is awful.
    I'm all in favor of making Fraywind unequalized again and the same with Skyring, though largely because the stats on equalized gear is pants on head [filtered]. No decreased stun duration on earrings ? What were they thinking ? And a healer weapon that's equivalent to a damn level 40 weapon when HP pools are well over 100k ?
  • TewiiTewii ✭✭✭
    edited May 2017
    ^ To be fair, 10k heal on focus heal is an off estimate. The conflict weapons have http://teradatabase.net/us/item/97075/ similar healing stats when compared to http://teradatabase.net/us/item/88157/ Guile Equipment

    If you're healing for 10k you should make it your priority to cleanse debilitate, combative strike, glyphed burning breath or whipsaw before healing. Even with those debuffs I don't think you heal for as low as 10k.

    Main problem with healer gear comes from defense, not it's healing capabilities.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    The "It was a lot more popular back when it was non-EQ" is a hard to agree/disagree argument. You gotta take many things into consideration, and just bringing it down to the gear being EQ or not is too simple a consideration. It's like ignoring air resistance and trying to explain a parachute.

    One thing we need to keep in mind: when was it that it was more popular? "when it was non EQ hurr durr"! yeah, there was like before I entered, when it was Lv 60 and no +15 gear, PvP gear sets were a different system, heck not everyone was even +12 back when I entered the game and reached cap.
    "it was more popular on non-EQ with +15 already" Keep in mind there was a semi-EQ time too: they've introduced the ability to queue with a lower than certain ilvl gear, and get the EQ there. Also keep in mind that when +15 launched it just WASN'T common. I remember rarely seeing red wings on player's backs. It just wasn't like it is now that even a lazy bu-m like me plans on doing a VM. So it's not like you would simply find yourself in a team that you'll be floormat easily.
    There was also the introduction of PVPVE sets, with actually good PVP capacity, so anyone gearing up for PVE could have a taste at PVP too. You didn't just start totally useless at it, VM was balanced compared to non +15 players and so on.

    There's many factors to consider on the balancing and simply keeping players interested on it, that you take into consideration. You could use Dreadnaught set on FWC with right crystals and be good there. Heck I went to 1st in rank once with that gear.

    We have to consider a lot before reverting back to non-EQ: How does the current gear perform? How it compares to top tier? No one wants to get just 2 shot and ress back in a BG. I wouldn't play again something like this frankly that I got no chance whatsoever. I can die a lot, be on the bottom of the rank on 1st~10th try, whatever. If i at least have a chance to do something. This is where gear balancing makes a huge difference, how common is +15 and how it compares to mid tier +12 for example. You can't consider only how the top class players feel, this game does focus a lot on starters too.
  • idk about half of the pve heroes posting but i had no issues with queuing in equalized gear even when fwc was unequalized. fwc's equalized gear actually did a surprisingly high amount of damage just while having paper for defense. most of my friends would run equalized gear premades and guess what? we would still stomp ppl regardless because at the end of the day the equalized gear wasn't actually that bad. also, at one point my main character had full conflate while starfall and imperator were way superior to the gear. even while "undergeared" i still managed to average 1400-1500 rating despite my lack of gear(i'm a zerker). gear will never mean anything, and one of the easiest kind of teams to steamroll are the teams that think otherwise and that they can get a free win with just having brawlers and reapers with gear. you can [filtered] on other pve heroes that have no experience sure but ur premade can never win against even an average equalized group of pvpers.
    this is a change that needs to be done and pve players/pvp players that are too bad/lazy to gear need to stick in cs or grid or open their mind
  • Elinerd wrote: »
    W7GNYAP55A wrote: »
    x2nsr8.png

    Anything with un-equalized gear in FWC! NO! Majority of us DO NOT want un-equalized gear, it will kill FWC again while all queue times will just be too long, and it'll be overrun by elitist. This is NOT the right direction, and please, just no!

    Where's your proof that a majority doesn't want it? Not to mention queues were fine before they made it equalized. Queues only died because it became equalized, rankings became irrelevant, and loot was [filtered]

    Queues have had their ups and downs but from what I've seen over the years, they've been the most dead when the game was un-EQ in the "glory days" of p2w. There's no consensus I'm aware of on whether a majority wants or doesn't want FWC to become EQ, but I promise you that anyone thinking it's a good idea would very quickly regret the change.

    Right now people complain about a lack of PVP crystals, how do you think everyone will feel when they have +15 fully etched PVP heroes pitted against complete PVE scrubs? At least right now there's a chance of the shitter teams winning if they get carried. There will be no chance to win against the new meta called "energetic brawlers" sustained by everlasting kaias with a tremendous gear advantage, disregarding the ever notable skill advantage that has always existed. Sure it would be more fun for tryhards if it was lit for a while, but eventually nobody would queue up since the vast majority of people would have a 100% chance of losing. Very quickly. Unable to do anything about it.

    I tend to solo queue so I don't want EQ at all. Fraywind isn't like what it was at first when solo queuers could carry matches with a smart cap game so nothing to me could justify the change to un-EQ with all the blatant balance issues that would come from it. Also the gear progression and class balance is just a joke compared to those old days.

    nothing you say matters since you just try to kick the inexperienced players from soloq regardless while not being a good player yourself.
  • xoBarbxoBarb ✭✭✭
    JKPYK5AK4K wrote: »
    Elinerd wrote: »
    W7GNYAP55A wrote: »
    x2nsr8.png

    Anything with un-equalized gear in FWC! NO! Majority of us DO NOT want un-equalized gear, it will kill FWC again while all queue times will just be too long, and it'll be overrun by elitist. This is NOT the right direction, and please, just no!

    Where's your proof that a majority doesn't want it? Not to mention queues were fine before they made it equalized. Queues only died because it became equalized, rankings became irrelevant, and loot was [filtered]

    Queues have had their ups and downs but from what I've seen over the years, they've been the most dead when the game was un-EQ in the "glory days" of p2w. There's no consensus I'm aware of on whether a majority wants or doesn't want FWC to become EQ, but I promise you that anyone thinking it's a good idea would very quickly regret the change.

    Right now people complain about a lack of PVP crystals, how do you think everyone will feel when they have +15 fully etched PVP heroes pitted against complete PVE scrubs? At least right now there's a chance of the shitter teams winning if they get carried. There will be no chance to win against the new meta called "energetic brawlers" sustained by everlasting kaias with a tremendous gear advantage, disregarding the ever notable skill advantage that has always existed. Sure it would be more fun for tryhards if it was lit for a while, but eventually nobody would queue up since the vast majority of people would have a 100% chance of losing. Very quickly. Unable to do anything about it.

    I tend to solo queue so I don't want EQ at all. Fraywind isn't like what it was at first when solo queuers could carry matches with a smart cap game so nothing to me could justify the change to un-EQ with all the blatant balance issues that would come from it. Also the gear progression and class balance is just a joke compared to those old days.

    nothing you say matters since you just try to kick the inexperienced players from soloq regardless while not being a good player yourself.

    did you quote the right person? I don't see anywhere in his post where it says, "I go out of my way to kick inexperienced players from solo q"
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