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The 3rd Party Thread

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Comments

  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bring this up, because it is a new page, we need to, it is our right to know how to build and see our performance, please think of an official DPS meter which is really needed, if you don't have the time, find a legit team that can help you and introduce it to us, this alone can make a whole lotta hardcore and casual happy and get them to enjoy their game more by knowing their performance.

    PS: Some classes with heavy ping-depended skills, ( I don't wanna get to details, I am not asking to allow for any 3rd party, and when players ask about this, they know that the performance and dps of a player with +200 ms ping is going to be different from a player -100 ms ping) are seen way less than before. Because the builds and the codes Tera have for those skills make it only viable for players with very low pings. Now there are many players that even main Reapers, Zerk, Slayers, Warrior with +250 ms ping, they are not easy class with high ping for a acceptable performance, but they do it, but now Archers, Ninja are pushed back hard, because of that.

    @Spacecats @Denommenator

    I am not bringing up the 3rd party programs discussion, TOS is clear, no discussion there but DPS meter, it should have been added by BHS, it is not and it is a shame, so please you consider this for us, this game is based on doing damage/taking damage/aggro/heal, if we don't know the numbers, what is the point? this will does more good than harm. You can add rules like posting players stats and naming players on public chats punishable. also about those heavy ping depended skills that are effecting dps heavily on some classes, this is not clearly an issue on Ktera, we know how low their ping is and how well Tera performs there with internet and systems they have. But on NA, this is an issue and effects players that are getting into Tera to play their favorite class. So please ask for a build and fix for these skills.

    Thanks.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    A built in tool to see personal DPS could be a good one, or they even could make score attack dungeons.

    The problem here gets when people forget that is a co-op game and not a Solo game then they try to push individual stats for every single dungeon (is ridiculous being with people on CW that spam their dps meters on chat to harass new players) and forget that some dungeons bosses has some mechs where you get the focus randomly (thanks by the way to get rid of these dungeons) and if a specific player get the focus every single time then his dps will get hurt but that doesn't matter for many people that only see the dps meters and forget about all things that happened in the boss fight.

    I am up for official personal dps and would hope for fair punishment for those who use a third party software that give them advantages over other players.
  • I'm not going to talk about current 3rd party programs because I don't see the point. Not like EME can actually give us any form of actual response anyway. However, if we were going to do away with all third party programs, I feel that the following needs to be introduced directly into the game:

    1. Performance tracker -- currently, DPS meters are being used by players to track in-game performance, including but not limited to DPS output, survivability, buffs and debuffs uptime. There needs to be some method to track performance of EVERYONE in the party and/or raid. This way, if a player doesn't pull their weight, the others in the party know and can make the decision to replace that player and/or give him feedback. This is especially important in endgame content where it's not viable to carry people through VSHM and HH. Of course having said that I don't approve of abusing players due to poor performance, but sometimes if you wanna get something done you gotta do what you gotta do.

    2. Skill chains need to be more fluid at high ping -- Currently, movement is simulated client-side so when we move our characters in-game it looks and feels fluid and smooth to the player. Similarly there needs to be some form of method to make skill chaining more fluid in-game so that players with anything more than 50ms ping can enjoy the game as it was intended. Many other games have some way of achieving this and I believe the playerbase, particularly in NA where there are many players out of NA (and NA is huge, would not surprise me if even people in NA have ping issues) would benefit if this is OFFICIALLY introduced into the game somehow.
  • Let die this post pls ...
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    I am up for official personal dps

    What's the point in that?
  • AcendiaAcendia ✭✭✭
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    I am up for official personal dps

    What's the point in that?

    Seeing your own DPS, being able to compare it with people willing to share theirs and no room for "harassing" others by pointing it out theirs.

    Not saying I support the idea, but it's a perfectly valid option.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    Acendia wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    I am up for official personal dps

    What's the point in that?

    Seeing your own DPS, being able to compare it with people willing to share theirs and no room for "harassing" others by pointing it out theirs.

    Not saying I support the idea, but it's a perfectly valid option.

    I agree, and also gives you a tool for measuring builds.
    There's stuff that you can see easily without, like the damage a single hit does, and how often the skill crits, but stuff regarding speed aren't that easy to measure.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    Acendia wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    I am up for official personal dps

    What's the point in that?

    Seeing your own DPS, being able to compare it with people willing to share theirs and no room for "harassing" others by pointing it out theirs.

    Not saying I support the idea, but it's a perfectly valid option.

    In order to compare it with the right people, you'd need to actually be in contact with them. Two baddies comparing dps serves no purpose. And if you think you won't be forced to share your dps in parties, you are delusional.
  • i came from gw2. in gw2 they fought for a long time whether to allow dps meters and everyone argued it would cause elitism. they made it so they can ban you for being a [filtered] but wouldnt do it just because you used a meter. you had to be toxic. toxicity levels didnt go up when meters were finally legalized. the devs gave clear guidelines what was and wasnt allowed and havnt had much of a problem since.
  • EndevaEndeva ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ceciella wrote: »
    Ginjitsu wrote: »
    Tewii wrote: »
    Spacecats wrote: »
    On the 3rd party program side of things, there are players using programs that flip things around so that they're actually doing way more DPS than anyone else who isn't using a 3rd party program.

    It has to be said that you're incorrect regarding this. The program I'm sure you know I'm speaking of doesn't alter damage values nor critrates, stats, etc etc...
    All it does is remove the delay inbetween the individual actions of the skill firing off for the client. Realistically, it brings those skills and those skills alone to work closer to how they should instead of being inherently broken.

    I did not know you were a developer from Bluehole, please do tell us why the delay was not removed in Tera instead of using a 3rd party tool?

    Or may be the delay was intentionally added to not overload the servers!

    I'm pretty sure EME and BHS are big boys who don't need you defending them, especially when your speculation is even less helpful than the original post. It's clear you're uneducated on the specifics of what you're taking about but don't let me stop you from shitting up every single thread involved while people just want honest straightforward answers about .ini tweaks, optimization and other things that are not the third party tools.

    I'm not defending, but dismissing my question and comment because somehow I'm not educated on the specifics is not constructive.

    Please do enlighten us mister smart guy, try to not [filtered] on this thread while you're at it.
  • EndevaEndeva ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ceciella wrote: »
    Ginjitsu wrote: »
    Tewii wrote: »
    Spacecats wrote: »
    On the 3rd party program side of things, there are players using programs that flip things around so that they're actually doing way more DPS than anyone else who isn't using a 3rd party program.

    It has to be said that you're incorrect regarding this. The program I'm sure you know I'm speaking of doesn't alter damage values nor critrates, stats, etc etc...
    All it does is remove the delay inbetween the individual actions of the skill firing off for the client. Realistically, it brings those skills and those skills alone to work closer to how they should instead of being inherently broken.

    I did not know you were a developer from Bluehole, please do tell us why the delay was not removed in Tera instead of using a 3rd party tool?

    Or may be the delay was intentionally added to not overload the servers!

    I'm pretty sure EME and BHS are big boys who don't need you defending them, especially when your speculation is even less helpful than the original post. It's clear you're uneducated on the specifics of what you're taking about but don't let me stop you from shitting up every single thread involved while people just want honest straightforward answers about .ini tweaks, optimization and other things that are not the third party tools.

    I'm not defending, but dismissing my question and comment because somehow I'm not educated on the specifics is not constructive. Please do enlighten us mister smart guy, try to not [filtered] on this thread while you're at it.
  • EndevaEndeva ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ceciella wrote: »
    Ginjitsu wrote: »
    Tewii wrote: »
    Spacecats wrote: »
    On the 3rd party program side of things, there are players using programs that flip things around so that they're actually doing way more DPS than anyone else who isn't using a 3rd party program.

    It has to be said that you're incorrect regarding this. The program I'm sure you know I'm speaking of doesn't alter damage values nor critrates, stats, etc etc...
    All it does is remove the delay inbetween the individual actions of the skill firing off for the client. Realistically, it brings those skills and those skills alone to work closer to how they should instead of being inherently broken.

    I did not know you were a developer from Bluehole, please do tell us why the delay was not removed in Tera instead of using a 3rd party tool?

    Or may be the delay was intentionally added to not overload the servers!

    I'm pretty sure EME and BHS are big boys who don't need you defending them, especially when your speculation is even less helpful than the original post. It's clear you're uneducated on the specifics of what you're taking about but don't let me stop you from shitting up every single thread involved while people just want honest straightforward answers about .ini tweaks, optimization and other things that are not the third party tools.

    I'm not defending, but dismissing my question and comment because somehow I'm not educated on the specifics is not constructive. Please do enlighten us mister smart guy, try to not [filtered] on this thread while you're at it.
  • EndevaEndeva ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ceciella wrote: »
    Ginjitsu wrote: »
    Tewii wrote: »
    Spacecats wrote: »
    On the 3rd party program side of things, there are players using programs that flip things around so that they're actually doing way more DPS than anyone else who isn't using a 3rd party program.

    It has to be said that you're incorrect regarding this. The program I'm sure you know I'm speaking of doesn't alter damage values nor critrates, stats, etc etc...
    All it does is remove the delay inbetween the individual actions of the skill firing off for the client. Realistically, it brings those skills and those skills alone to work closer to how they should instead of being inherently broken.

    I did not know you were a developer from Bluehole, please do tell us why the delay was not removed in Tera instead of using a 3rd party tool?

    Or may be the delay was intentionally added to not overload the servers!

    I'm pretty sure EME and BHS are big boys who don't need you defending them, especially when your speculation is even less helpful than the original post. It's clear you're uneducated on the specifics of what you're taking about but don't let me stop you from shitting up every single thread involved while people just want honest straightforward answers about .ini tweaks, optimization and other things that are not the third party tools.

    I'm not defending, but dismissing my question and comment because somehow I'm not educated on the specifics is not constructive. Please do enlighten us mister smart guy, try to not [filtered] on this thread while you're at it.
  • EndevaEndeva ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ceciella wrote: »
    @Ginjitsu

    Please take your time and read through the entire thread again.

    You want to be spoonfed and absolutely refuse to read and watch the videos that have been posted like the person who posted the insane difference in rapid fire given just a little bit of additional ping between the player and the server. If you just read the thread you can educate yourself on the issues and form an opinion from accurate facts. There are many arguments in this thread that explain things better than I can, and there's a certain player who has voiced their complaints as a banned developer and the post was subsequently locked and removed without a response.

    Rapid Fire, Burst Fire, Burning Breath, and other skills are intended to be used at low ping because of the way they function and the fact that it is a Korean developer making a game for a Korean audience. Something like a player regularly having 80-120 ping isn't thought of because the game is simply designed for a different audience due to the physical size of their nation and incredible internet connection. When issues like this arise it is because the expectations and reality differ. The skills SHOULD function in a certain way, but they absolutely do not. This has been a known issue for many years.

    However the issue is so much bigger than that in regards to third party things. DPS meters are used by a majority of the endgame community to improve themselves - not harass other players (although that does undeniably happen because there are always going to be [filtered] people in any community). Many top streamers up until this announcement streamed with a DPS meter on. Should they have been banned? Is it an unfair advantage that someone who's colorblind could theoretically see things properly given a third party program since there are absolutely no options for this ingame? What about someone else who gets motion sickness gets a significantly better experience from altering the FOV? Even something as simple as the removing the censorship EME has built into the game for certain costumes is something that they have said can technically be seen as a bannable offense if they know it is going on. Like if someone streams with any of these things could it reasonably result in a ban?

    It's almost unbelievable how many people think even simple optimization fixes are cheating and should result in a ban. If you think that this is trying to justify cheating or that many, many people that are concerned in this thread are simply filthy cheaters who don't want to play the game and just get a reward then please take the time and read through all of the opinions posted in this thread that word things better than I can.

    You're making assumptions on how a skill is intended to work, removing the delay will give a clear advantage against players that choose to not use any tools to overcome challenges brought on by circumstances.

    DPS meters aren't really needed and players did just fine without it for years, even class changes have been made do to player feedback before it was meters were introduced. The "Cheating and Third Party Tools in TERA" announcement was very clear, but people jumped to conclusions about third party part of the thread and completely forgot about the cheating in TERA part. Changing INI files to optimize Tera isn't really cheating, sure technically it can be considered cheating but making that argument is just as stupid as saying you'll be banned for using a third party software like Windows 10.
  • So far, the only OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT about what EME will do for any 3rd party program is here

    694c53045b.png
    - by Noesis
    7d6b45cee0.png
    - by Spacecats



    And during last 2-3 weeks, lots of players got banned for 3rd party program-related issue. However, Some people got permanently banned, but some others got banned for 2 weeks ~ 4 weeks(1 month). This seems like EME does not fulfill their official announcement. I kinda understand that Permanent ban for any kind of issue related to 3rd party program is quite harsh. But then, we need to (and deserve to) know the actual regulation for this issue. @Spacecats @CobaltDragon , please clarify this issue.

    In the meanwhile, I would like to categorize some issue that against ToS and listen other's opinion.

    # Possible issues that EME will take an action.

    1. Using a 3rd party program for general purpose.

    - I know that use of any 3rd party program gives any kind of advantage to player. However, some players really need it in order to play "normally". Also, some players prefer to use a 3rd party program/MOD in order to make their TERA more enjoyable. These kinds of 3rd party programs do not affect player's gameplay directly. So I would say it is "use of 3rd party program for general purpose". However, it is definitely against ToS so that there must be a punishment if EME find them.
    - Also, even for now, some people who used a 3rd party program for general purpose got banned, but not permanently. So I guess EME is a bit generous (compared to permanent ban) for this issue.

    2. Using a 3rd party program for exploit purpose.

    - There have been lots of issues about this in both PVP and PVE, something like one shot, getting through the gate, etc. And I guess EME permanently banned those players already. This kind of exploit directly affects player's gameplay and gives too much advantage than ordinary gameplay. So this issue should be considered to give top tier punishment.

    3. Modifying ini file.

    - As most people already knew, there is a plain text file for TERA settings. And by adding/editing those files, people can self-optimize their TERA and/or extent FOV. This does not affect directly player's gameplay so that it is also kind of "for general purpose". And some people argue that it is intended by TERA since it is just a plain text file.
    People are debating whether this is against ToS or not. So we need to be confirmed by GMs.

    4. People who are associated with exploiters.

    - There have been lots of people that did not exploit with a 3rd party program, but have been associated with the exploiters by being in the same party/raid. I heard that EME already took an action for them, but they changed their action (permanent to temporary ban). The associated people might be completely innocent, but there is still a chance to be aware of it before the exploiters starts exploiting. It is quite hard to figure out how innocent those people are, but the fact is they got some advantages by the exploiters so that it is quite reasonable to punish those associated people with minor punishment.



    Again, the only announcement about the regulations for 3rd party program and modifying TERA client is "permanent ban" which is very unclear.

    Spacecats also use a 3rd party program in order to stream his TERA on every Friday.

    This seems a joke, but actually it is not a joke according to EME's announcement. Therefore, EME should clarify about this issue and what "accordingly" means for the action they are going to take.
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