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Improve VSHM
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What I mean is not to make everything more rewarding but make things accordingly to the kind of content, accordingly to the effort needed to do it, accordingly to the time you invest for you to get the best reward.
Is no wonder how many end-game players are upset about end-game content while mid tier and low tier content keep getting the best rewards on events EME holds. That is just like a slap in the face to them, even if their complains are not the best EME is the one making the mood becuase they are the ones making the casuals get the best rewards and the hard-core players are being keep in a corner.
I got what you mean, I give an example for it that I get it. When double drops happens I run CW, ABs more than other dungeons, why? They drop more craps that I need, because I don't need VM mats, not my kind of things, now someone that needs VM mats, goes to run VSH to get VM mats, and that is all he gets. People want a balance there, I get it, but as I said, we had too much crap, specially with mongo, and recent VM mats, that game needs a heavy break from any injection of enchanting mats/ vm mats.
When we reached that balance again, that would be a time to adjust loots and stuff.
Have you ever done the math and figured out the monetary value of the mats?
The fact they are crafting IIIs doesn't mean they're profiting from it all of the time. I know someone who etches, and his money goes from great to abysmal depending on his RNG. Once again, not good game design.
Oh? So you're telling me now that the rng for rolling on items [a flat 1-100 in which you have a 20% chance of winning each material, or farming from events, or getting them from boxes] is less forgiving than +15ing it? Have you ever +15ed something or are you trolling?
~~
Let's use facts instead of anecdotal evidence - Currently a Weapon Box is 550k on MT.
30 Lakan Scales cost 45k.
100 Herpvein Powders cost 50k.
For a warrior weapon design, one of the most sought-after classes weapons, is 300k.
This comes to a cost of 395k, not including any of the other costs -
20 Badges, 20 Banners, and 15 Talismans. Assuming they are all equal, this is a total of 55 mats.
Seeing as we have 155k of ground to cover, this comes out around 2820 gold per VM mat.
Now that we've crafted our warrior weapon at the box market price of 550k, we have to enchant and roll it:
---
Assuming we're using Blessed Enigmatic Scrolls, with a success rate of 1 success after 30 rolls, we've used 30 Blessed [Cost of 50g each, 1.5k gold] and 30 Intricates [at 53g each, 1.6k gold] to masterwork our weapon. Yahoo!
But now we need to correctly roll it. Assuming that we already have one of the stat we need, and we roll it a grand total of 5 times per attempt to get what we need.
5 rolls of 16 Spellbind to reach 2 rolls out of 5.
5 rolls of 32 Spellbind to reach 3 rolls out of 5.
5 rolls of 64 Spellbind to reach 4 rolls out of 5.
And another final 5 rolls at 112 Spellbind per roll to reach 5/5 perfect rolls.
This will total out to exactly 1120 spellbind, which at current market prices are 24 gold each. That makes 26.9k.
To add to that, 17g per MES equaling 340g, and more intricates to use them with, at 1060 gold, for 1.4k. Yes I'm totaling all of this up.
Now we need to do regular 1-12 enchanting! Let's take a look. If we use the premium alkahest method, which pretty much everyone should do since it comes out to be cheaper on feedstock - we'll come to this:
Most VM weapons using this method come out to around a total of 600 feedstock used. If you're lucky. At 4 feedstock per attempt, that's 150 attempts.
600 feedstock is 16.2k.
..and at 150 attempts using the premium alk method, which is 2400 alk used [at 12g a piece, equaling 28.8k]
Now we're +12! Sweet! Halfway there.
--
Awakening and awakened enchanting:
Let's take a look at the current cost of enchanting equipment: Masterwork Alkahest is currently 8 gold a piece on MT. Tier 12 Feedstock is 27 gold a piece. You need 2000 Feedstock [54k gold for the lazy] and 1000 Masterwork Alkahest [8k gold for the lazy] to simply awaken your gear. That's a 64k cost.
The success rate has been reportedly stated to be around 60 to 80 attempts per VM weapon. Slightly less if you have the P2W bonus as I have. My personal success rate has been around 50 or so, but I have P2W bonus of tier 9 which the grand majority of the player base does NOT have.
So let's round out the number to be a nice 70, right inbetween the averages that I tend to see. 70 attempts of 200 Feedstock and 100 mwa, which when paired together is 6.2k per attempt, we come out to a grand total of 434k gold spent just on awakening.
!!!!
Now, let's add etching into the equation. A warrior's preferred weapon etching is Energetic which sells at 54k on MT at this point in time. We'll use that as our price point for either a III or a IV etching.
Finally, we need to liberate it in order to sell it in the first place. 38k gold.
~~
Let's add them all together!
550k total for Creating our weapon, or using a Deathwrack Weapon Box. This is assuming mats have a monetary value that you covet so.
3.1k gold for Masterworking.
28.6k gold for Correctly Rolling.
45k gold for Enchanting to +12.
64k gold for Awakening.
434k gold for +15ing.
54k gold to Etch it.
38k gold to Liberate it.
This brings us to a grand total of!!!!!
1,216,700 gold
The last two Vex & Bedevil weapons that were sold on MT sold at the price point of 900k gold. Their current listed price is 850k. They very rarely go for market price, as people will negotiate you on it.
That means you're 316k gold worse off if you crafted to sell it under average conditions.
Now let's assume mats have ZERO monetary value and the only cost is the time spent to farm it - assuming you'd use this time for nothing else other than idling.
The warrior weapon design is 300k. A VM box is 250k higher than that. Even if you collected every single mat yourself - even the tradeable ones - you would still be around 67k worse off, assuming it sells at higher than market price.
These are all costs deriving from Mount Tyrannas, and this is all assuming average or even good luck. I and many others have had far worse when it comes to every facet of crafting and feeding a +15 weapon.
ElinUsagi please stop spreading misinformation.
You can check all of these prices currently on MT, they are factual and correct as of this post.
*As an addendum: This does not include 3%ing your equipment, which would make the costs even higher.
It's also hilarious how you're comparing the more forgiving 2.8k "cost" of losing a mat in a roll, to the 6.2k cost that comes from a single attempt at awakened enchanting.
~~
Also, to your other point - in the few months of VSHM, I've not seen a single sell run. This is on MT.
Then please do tell all your fellow TERA players in this thread and in every other thread. Because so far all I've seen from you is anecdotal evidence based on personal opinion, far from any kind of truths, while not actually saying how to get gold from HM dungeons.
I have crafted several VM in the past and the most expensive for me to enchant was Imperator, nearly 2 million gold worth on mats.
However what most people is angry on their HM dungeons is becuase they have a car and step the accel to the bottom and cry becuase they used to much fuel to get the their destiny.
You spend most of those consumables becuase you want your moongourd or your dps metter shows to others how fast you are and how much damage you pull out on those dungeons, that is just personal preference and greed to show others and not a sign that the dungeon is not rewarding or worth.
sounds like afk pro weapon
Yes I have and even in this patch I have helped more than 5 people to +15 and there is another one who is asking me to help him and told him to wait me one week to get the things he is going to need.
And you really like to make numbers on mats that were already handed for EME to players like candy, I haven't drained all those mats to this point and have enchanted more than 6 of VM pieces to +15 since those events and even have helped others giving them mats to enchant till +15.
And I once had a cat who could open everything except cans.
Even if I were to spend exactly 0 on consumables(even though you are totally wrong about the reasons), I'd still end up with a loss as I could've actually gained more by doing, well, pretty much anything else. In f2p MMOs, time is a currency as well. If we were to apply Tewii's math to an hourly gain, you'd see just how absurdly miserable the rewards are. But, hey, it's all about what you feel is true, facts and math can be freely ignored, right?
>Tells me I'm making up numbers
>Tells me VM has a monetary value
>Ignores the mathematically driven monetary value I've given them by comparing crafting to the instant gain from something on the market
>Ignores literally everything else in my post.
Just stop. Your discussions are simply harmful to the community at large.
- You are denying how EME gifted many players lots of enchanting mats in the last year so you shouldn't have problems to enchanthing to +15 but only gathering the mats.
- Yes VM has monetary values and because of that it is on broker and some people crafting and selling specific class gear to sell since several weeks ago.
- I spent 150k gold on mats to enchant to +15 a weapon 2 weeks ago, then I could use that as a base.
- Not ingnoring but why should I reapeat the above more times than needed?
So far your discussion about HM dungeons being worth of not is about how much consumables you spent on that dungeon, consumables that most of the times people only use to make more dps or make a faster run to show off in the moongourd or discord with your metters.
Weren't you the one talking about the monetary value of stuff? Regardless of what events were there, enchant mats have their monetary value that cna be checked in the TB.
But there were several events recent that gave VM mats so you shouldn't have problems crafting it yourself thus there is no monetary value to speka of, right?
The small difference between "I" and "on average".
because watching you trip over your own feet is fun.
Like...where is that? Apart form your imagination, obviously.
Then you show proof of how much an average is, you can't, the only thing you can do is talk about personal experience and from friends tell you.
Otherwise I will wait for you to give that average stats that you brag so much.
I didn't deny that anywhere. That doesn't change their monetary value. If mats are more plentiful, there's less reason for people to buy VM boxes, and as such the price adjusts. I did the math up above to equalize the market value of both the tradeable and untradeable goods to reach a value that makes sense given the price of VM boxes in the market.
You're just choosing to ignore it.
So... do you agree with me or not that it has monetary values? Regardless of whatever events that occur.
And yes, I'm glad we both get that people are selling them, but you're still choosing to ignore the calculations I did above to prove that crafting to sell is not profitable in the slightest.
I used averages from my multiple years of playing this game and being present for a fair few people's enchanting adventures, my own averages with 3% advantage, averages from inspecting people's gear for the +1-12 enchanting via feedstock on their gear. There's a little guesswork as we don't know the actual rates for enchanting, but we can get very close to the rates by looking at averages - ones that I have shown in my post above.
Yet you are choosing to ignore what I've said above, instead replying with the ad hominem once again of "Oh but I'm saying that this is happening, so this is what's happening."
Personally, I'm a healer main. Mystic. The only consumables I do use are noct every now and then and my elite bar's nostrum. There is a tiny gold cost for me entering the dungeon.
So why is it not worthwhile? Because I can do things which take far less effort for far greater monetary reward, and on characters far less geared than what VSHM requires.
You also seem to assume everyone is busting their butt over a high cost of consumables but even without them, VSHM feels incredibly lackluster in the output you get from the dungeon.
Yes, this most likely the case since the threads about how unrewarding was because how people spent many consumables on that dungeon and not about how much monetary value in return they could get in short and long return. Most of the complains are about not having a short return of their invesments.
That's why I personally agree to somethings you have said on another threads but I don't agree that VSHM is not rewarding at all, if you look at it most people here treat it as if that dungeon is only loses when is it not, that is what I am not agreeing.
Sadly many people that complains also are more for the dps metter show of or the moongourd becuase some guild ask for them to show proof in that way that they are capable. That's why I said when you step the accel to the bottom is obvious you will get to the destination spending more gas than you could even if you didn't have the hurry to do it in the first place.
If we would complain about that then one person could complain how much nocs, strong pots and other consumables they waste on IoD (that's absurd but I already saw many people using them there) and then they come here complaining becuase they can't get more gold in return vs the cost of the consumables they used.
Is not about what you spent to be the best score in the run but what you really need to spend on that dungeon to make it worth, and so every other dungeon.
1. You already assumed I don't have proof.
2. Show me where I bragged about averages. Until then, you can go back to the delusional corner and sit down.