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Comments
And of course we are talking about post-Legion WoW, right?
GW2 is perfectly equalized, more than TERA, since not even level or anything makes a difference (in TERA, you have dyads/glyphs, which again not everyone has by default). If you could pick & choose your Dyads (without farming them) and all master glyphs etc then it would be equalized like GW2, since that's how GW2 works.
Do you know what is not equalized? If someone has, say, +5 critrate, while you have +3, with no other difference between you two. This isn't a matter of "choice", nobody chooses to have lower stats with no other gain. This is a matter of farm.
(note that WoW is not perfectly equalized, but it's more equalized than even TERA's equalized BGs, so it's good enough if TERA was even like that)
That is equalised... they just allow for different builds.
Let me give you a direct quote from legion patch notes
Equalised PvP Gear:
Gear has been normalised in PvP combat. Characters entering a Skirmish Arena, Battleground, Rated Arena, Rated Battleground, or Ashran now receive an aura called Principles of War.
Principles of War removes all stats gained from gear (Strength, Stamina, Haste, etc.), disables gear related bonuses (like trinket effects and set bonuses), and gives the character stats based on their specializations, and increases based on overall item level. The goal is to provide a much more finely tuned and balanced PvP experience.
You can literally PvP in gw2 from level 2, what are you even saying?
Or start making realistic suggestions.
Why not? Because you said so?
Which is entirely irrelevant since the whole reason people want equalised is because they can't or don't want to grind for months or p2w before they can compete. Therefore you end up with extremely unbalanced and gear carried matches more often than not.
Utter bullshiit.
Equalised solo queue revived it overnight, equalised team 3's in EU brought back a ton of old players to queue, equalised skyring slam competition and fraywind brought more teams to sign up than actually played it on a good day. Equalised CS has always been more popular than both fraywind and skyring, even when level 30s couldn't queue.
+15 on the other hand killed bgs overnight.
This game SOLELY lives off of players FARMING FOR GEAR. There's 0, nada, nothing else to do.
You make *every battleground* equalized, PvP dies. Look at our CURRENT situation.
The game has NOTHING else for players to do besides GRIND GEAR.
You can't compare TERA to other MMOs, they have side content, Tera DOES NOT.
you want to grow your playerbase and improve pvp?
heres the steps you got right
[*] Allow players to queue for multiple BGs at once.
[*] Bring back unequalized FWC.
[*] Implement a post-game honor system for players with great attitudes.
These 3 are necessary however
Adjust the point ratio in FWC to make pyres more important. - this will ruin the pvp intensive aspect of fwc which is why u guys removed it in the first place right?
CS is balanced right now
There arent enough healing classes for a reliable skyring... make this have a permanent jackpot and replace mondays with another bg (perhaps work on a larger map version for 4v4/5v5 until you do introduce another healer class(which i recommend to be like a melee dps shaman btw... or a blood magic healer that leeches health onto allies)
Furthermore i know you said this thread isnt really about rewards but fam... we all know the playerbase is falling and the lackluster reward system introduced saw a big hit to battleground activity... we dont need "better loot" we need a reliable structure or a higher minimum reward value... no potions, minimum 50 - 150 T11 feed, war keybadges may as well be purchasable by crafting merchants as their economy is at 10g/each and no longer useful in reward boxes... maybe add some goddess tears and instead of having people recieve bad or good, have good or really good as the rewards... people like rng in this game but not when 10 boxes give them a bit of feedstock and some potions... should never allow the posibility for players to play all day and make barely anything
the way i see it, people farm for gear so they can be competitive in unequalized battlegrounds. when you remove the farming, there are two options for the players
1) play with new equalized gear that isnt complete [filtered] just for fun / competition / whatever
2) quit
i am at least 60% sure that if we removed the need to grind for gear to pvp that more people would want to do it.
though just revamping the equalized gear wont do much by itself.
people doing battlegrounds / pvp in general want recognition. they want to be known for how good they are.
i think eme needs to bring back leaderboards for battlegrounds. leaderboards lead to competition for top ranks, which is beneficial to keep a competitive and healthy pvp community
Agreed, very important point. Such "rewards" are very healthy for a PvP scene (MI is fine as well, or cosmetic rewards)
Equalize; become equal to a specified level. Equal is exact.
Normalize; bring or return to a normal condition or state. Which means it brings values to a standard which is usually within a given range, they aren't exact, or don't have to be exact rather.
WoW does not equalize, it normalizes they are two entirely different things. It brings stats up to a specific level. But it doesn't just do that. It also increases your Main and Secondary stats by a percentage per 1 ilvl. Artifact power also plays a role in increasing HP values. That's why you can have two mages that are the EXACT SAME talent build, but one will have 2.5million HP and the other will have 4million.
See above.
It isn't that far fetched of a suggestion. BHS already has all the tools they need to allow something like that to happen. Dual specialization on gear now, we can customize two different sets. There really isn't anything stopping them from adding a third that is instanced PVP only. We have also already had BloodRave gear that was Rating restricted. So again, tell me where this isn't realistic when all the ground work is in place. Not to mention the gear revamps are happening and its the perfect time for them to adjust the PvP gear for a more permanent fix.
Because it is obvious. When you have certain classes that are so far outside of the bounds of the gear that they can kill someone before they even finish a full combo. Because Healers get absolutely destroyed.
No. No it is not irrelevant. If it were than every single example of PvP balance in the history of gaming would be irrelevant. You always balance to the top end. You are getting really flimsy in your argument. The whole reason people want non-equalized is so that things are more competitive at the top end, not cater to people that don't want to put in the time or effort to be competitive. Because the people that won't grind for gear don't care about a competitive scene in the first place, if they aren't going to put in the effort. Which usually means they aren't going to put in the effort to learn their class properly, so those people wouldn't ever be competitive anyway.
One instance of it making things better for a bit doesn't mean its automatically a good thing when there are multiple instances of it reducing the PvP community.
Haha, who is spewing utter BS now.
I don't agree with this, at least at a personal experience where most people I have know and wants to do PvP content don't care and are annoyed to farm/grind their gear doing PvE content (because BGs right now wont make you get your gear in ages) and better quit the game because it doesn't offer the PvP experiences they are looking.
And what is more you can have full BiS +15 with best rolls and you could be an ignorant of your class on PvP because is a whole diferent story how you must play at PvE than PvP and even more diferent in BGs.
If a person that looks for a fair match in PvP content knows all they have to grind to be able to be in the top you say all would be balanced then is obvious how pvpers are being lost by the time in this game.
However if a PvPer would know that he can get that top gear, jewellery, etchings, brooches, inners in a given way without rng they would make the effort for it but to be tied to do PvE to get faster what they need to reach that balance is rather the worst way to say something is balanced.
Either way BHS should make all BGs equalized in top gear and let the players choose their own rerollable stats or revamp the equalized gear to a certain point that can give a similar experience that you have with your PvE gear.
Or even better, if people here really care about balance and fairness in mathches then make uneq BGs in a way that don't allow people who dont have oblit +15 with tier 4 etchings, pvp resized jewellery, marrow, diadem brooch and new inners. Otherwise all the talk about balance and competitive scene is just castles in the sky.
People that looks for competitive scene hates every single bit of handycap a team can get just because the other players have more time to farm for their bonusses stats in gear.
So here's what Bliz say: The last bit is the most important for everyone who thinks eq is imbalanced. I don't know why so many people think that non-eq gear is what is "balanced" when it is almost impossible to balance in every game since it depends on player resources.
As for GW2, it is equalized, if you bother to Google and see for yourself (I mean the term used by players for it). Cause that's what it means, not what you think it does. (I don't think many people even use the term normalization anymore)
e.g.: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2yqkbz/is_all_gear_equal_in_spvp_and_wvw/
So stat differences with no farming is still equalized, depending on build. Picking & choosing stats is still "equalized". Farming them isn't though.
Yes really.
Except that 2.5% difference isn't top end. You have people fighting against new players with over a 150ilvl difference and 50+ points in their artifact weapon. Which the Artifact weapons themselves are a HUGE power gap. You are quoting something from nearly a year ago. Now look at it and the 20% difference is a real thing and it is a lot harder for players to close the gap than it was before since its literally gated behind top end raids, unlike before when it was just a points system and you could get them pretty quickly and be top geared in PvP after a few painful matches.
Also PvP is less active in Legion that it was in other expansions. It is less balanced as well which is a big problem in their PvP atm.
GW2 is equalized in SPvP, not WvW which is normalized. You are right GW2 SPvP is equalized. But it is a lot easier for GW2 to normalize and equalize because the literal entire game is built around it with an already very horizontal gear progression. It is similar to GW1 where the top end gear is barely better than starter level 20 or level 80 gear.
GW2 also allows for more control over your gear than TERA does. GW2 allows players to change out runes, which has a massive effect on making certain builds/classes viable in SPvP. IF GW2 did equalization like TERA did, they would be screaming for non-equalized or for more customization since entire classes in that game would be utter trash, similar to how it is in TERA right now.
If TERA did equalized gear similar to GW2 which is literally what I suggested, with allowing more customization over gear then we wouldn't be in such a huge debate over equalized vs non-equalized gear and which is better. As it stands now though TERA is better with non-equalized vs current equalized gear because of all the issues that have been brought up about equalized gear right now. Yes people with lesser gear will get stomped for awhile. But it is a minor issue in comparison to entire classes being trash in comparison to others with no recourse to make them better.
CSGO isn't an MMO. it's an FPS.
Bring back unequalized FWC.
These 2 need to be implemented, but I prefer random map rotation on a single queue tho so that people will never get bored because they could lose in some maps since they cannot choose the map rather than being eternal champion. lol
And it's good for your business as well in a point that they are required in some degree to grind stuffs in order to win in some unequalized maps.
Grind doing PvP content is not a bad thing but when you as a PvPer has to do PvE content to get the same stats as them for PvP unequalized BGs then is obvious there is not a competitive scene there because the system favors those with more time to gear regardless of real PvP skills.
As the game is right now if you dedicate yourself at PvP content without doing PvE content then you won't get BiS (HH hold it and is PvE content) that means the most you can try to farm is 2nd best gear at the moment and if you make numbers you could never get it at all becuase the rng rewards you get from battleground; you cant even craft pvp jewellery because you must get PvE jewellery first to be able to do that, you wont get inners, you wont get decent brooches or circlets, doing PvP content wont give you anything unless you grind your gear doing PvE so you can see how this is only apealing for PvEers and not PvPers.
Even dragons (FWC and CS has some elements where their pasive works) cant be obtained anymore throught BGs bacause people complained saying those were useless in jackpots and I am pretty sure those who complained are those who cares most for PvE content thatn PvP.
This is the list of materials available in battleground jackpots
Talisman of Lakan
Lakan's Scale
Lakan's Banner
Badge of Loyalty
Herpvein Powder
And the contents of the victory chests:
War Keybadge
Ominous Ore
Triumph Keybadge
Rejuvenation Potion
Key Accessory Design Box
Health Potion
Talisman of Lakan
Bravery Potion
Badge of Loyalty
Tier 11 Feedstock
Lakan's Scale
Lakan's Focus
Goddess's Gemstone
Dyad Niveot Structure
Superior Etching Box
Source: http://athmos.comastuff.com/TERA/Anniv/New_BG_Boxes.pdf
If you wat to improve the experience for players on existing BGs making them uneq you should first make them in a way that you can get directly from them BiS and all required materials to get your BiS, Etchings, Inners, Jewellery, Brooches, Diadems; otherwise it yould never be a fair competition between PvPers and PvEers.
Are you implying that just being a different genre makes it automatically worse in terms of gameplay fun, that it needs ridiculous rewards just to have players want to play? If that's the case, then might want to, you know, actually make TERA's PvP itself more fun than CS:GO. Sounds like a better solution.
I'd question your use of the label "PvPers" on them then.