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Comments
This system is a lot easier unlike previous because each tiers of gear represents the dungeon tier and progression very well.
Low tier gear goes to Low tier dungeons (Lv 65 with 2 stars, so excluding progression dungeons)
Mid tier gear goes to Mid tier dungeons (3 stars)
High tier gear goes to High tier dungeons (4 stars)
Top tier gear goes to High tier and Top tier dungeon (4 and 5 stars and Harrowhold)
Each dungeon's tier represent the corresponding reward for the respective gearing (with exception of High tier dungeon rewarding common top tier materials because the game simply lacks top tier dungeons to spread them).
If it takes 2 weeks for me to casually gear into High tier everything (Superior version of Quick Carve and Empowered Brooches are High tiers as well), I think it's pretty fair for any players to catch up. This is because if you put up gear proficiency to maximize RNG to 100% for mid tier gear (but 60% for mid tier accessories), it's piece of cake to enter High tier contents. Just make tons more gold from high tier, then you'll be able to progress faster, because Emeralds and Diamonds drop a lot more often in High tier dungeons compared to Mid tier.
The amount of gold you gain from just playing few rounds of dungeon is enough to get you going to next step everytime, unlike the current system where you'll be stumped when you can't get the gear to masterwork, have correct rolls, or enchanting it to +12. All the "possible gold wasted on the cancerous RNG system of masterworking and rerolling" are basically now part of your enchantment costs. So this is only a loss for those who spent almost nothing to do entire process to meet the standard gearing requirement.
So if you're thinking that Top tier +6 should be obtainable from casual play, that's like saying everyone should have Oblit +15 right now.
You will never get Top tier +7 or higher if you do not invest your time in this game at all-- they removed the crucial enchantment material, Wondrous Holy Water, from Ghiliglade after few weeks, so I'm not sure if NA would have such drop on the initial patch.
There are only a handful of ways to get Wondrous Holy Water:
1. RK-9 Hangar Hard mode (Extreme mode activated) : guaranteed drops like 2 or something, but this is best method because it can be farmed easily
2. Harrowhold Phase 4 : guaranteed drops + chests have chance to drop + everyone gets 1
3. Rally BAMs : Top 3 ranking raids got 1~4 but RNG
4, BG vanguard reward box : I've only seen 1 or 2 reports of drop. Not sure if they're even true.
BHS even noted several times before that VMs are not for everyone and they were meant to be for players who invest their time and resources to give them sense of achievement. Top tier is no different because they went on the same intention. However, they saw the tiny flaw in the old progression where people easily neglected players who had Misery over VM player, simply because normally VMs would be +15 and are bound to out perform Misery +12. So to prevent such disparity in Low/Mid tier dungeons, they made adjustments this way, and it's pretty healthy based on my experiences in KTERA. I had full mid tier gear +0 on Lancer, barely at item level requirement and I was invited to party in LFG. They don't care anymore with enchantment status because the Low/ Mid tier dungeons are easy enough to carry one or two unskilled player.
This isn't as expensive as the current system that is full of RNG-- again, it's only a loss if you somehow get super RNG getting everything 100% of the time with little or no cost. I have terrible RNG as it took me 100k to gear my priest in full Misery. I could have gotten high tier gear which has VM stats equivalent with that much gold.
If you truly want to make gold, I'll tell you the biggest tip: spam Low/ Mid tier dungeons with statics with all of your characters. The amount of materials you get is highly time efficient, and you can sell gold/silver crystals (or craft them into plates for even greater profit). But think about it, that's quite a dedication even for casual players-- BHS's intention remains: gearing will reflect on your investment of time and resources.
Sure, you can liberate +7 gear and people can buy with gold. Just that they're at 1.5M on broker.
You can find cheaper BoE Top tier +0 at 500k, but if you don't perform very well with it, it's very obvious that you didn't earn it, simply because the total cost to get Top tier +0 is really about 500k in gold at minimum.
I haven't had a chance to look it over all that much. How is the new system towards PvPers in terms of gearing?
Not much diferent as it is now it seems.
If you want to gear faster you would need to run PvE content but if you don't mind being left behind several months then keep doing only PvP content as it is now.
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> I haven't had a chance to look it over all that much. How is the new system towards PvPers in terms of gearing?
If i am remembering correctly, you are able to use new gear in FWC again should the item level be high enough otherwise for others it will be equalized
BGs drop all mats. But the problems is-- it drops all mats from the boxes, it's too RNG heavy. Meaning, if you have High tier gear, you will still get Low tier materials from those boxes. Of course, they can be dismantled into proof of change tokens, but it's very inefficient compared to PvE's method I mentioned earlier. In addition, running Ghilliglade as much as possible is highly profitable as well.
They should have made it so that it drops set amount of Proof of Change tokens instead so that it PvP players can freely choose all mats available for up to Top tier +6 enchantment, and proceed to rely on CU:V for Holy Water, as well as RNG drop from BG victory box or so. I'm not much of a PvP player to really understand how to balance that, but you get the idea:
In PvE, Proof of Change tokens are available in all vanguard reward, so they can freely farm those tokens for whatever materials they need (except gold/silver crystals), but PvP players must rely on solo contents for gold/silver crystals. There's not much progression method for PvP players in terms of variety and flexibility within PvP content.
To balance this out, BGs need to reward Proof of Change tokens very generously-- only Champion's Skyring [solo] reward 300 tokens...
compare that to PvE:
Top tier dungeon: 4500 tokens
High tier dungeon: 1350 tokens
Mid tier dungeon: 540 tokens
Low tier dungeon: 210 tokens
High tier IoD: 360 tokens
Mid tier IoD: 180 tokens
Low tier IoD: 120 tokens
Celestial Arena: 150 tokens
Castle Aranea: 210 tokens
Ace dungeon: 270 tokens
Pit of Petrax: 100 tokens
These Proof of Change tokens are only awared as additional award if you have vanguard badges left, and it's increased to 16 badges (we have 8 currently).
To gain proof tokens purely from PvP, that's assuming you can even run 16 Skyring solo = 4,800
let's assume you are going to get all mats needed to get to +6 Top tier: here are the total MINIMUM amount of each material + gold + gems you need to achive so:
257 Wood Piece = 30 tokens per = 7710 tokens
111 Low tier Archdevan potion = 30 tokens per = 3330 tokens
1314 gold crystal = about 30 gold each on broker = ~39,420 gold
100 Refined ore = 90 tokens per = 9000 tokens
9 Mid tier archdevan potion = 300 tokens per = 2700 tokens
1374 gold piece = about 120 gold each on broker = ~164,880 gold
145 liquid metal = 300 tokens per = 43500 tokens
118 dark device = 600 tokens per = 70800 tokens
12 High tier archdevan potion = 3000 tokens per = 36000 tokens
188 emerald = 1,000 + 200 gold on broker = 188,000 + 37,600 gold
523 gold plate = about 550 gold each on broker = ~287,650 gold
106 archdevan tool = 960 tokens per = 101,760 tokens
58 metallic structure = 1800 tokens per = 104,400 tokens
12 ashes = 3000 tokens per = 36,000 tokens
2 diamonds = 10,000 gold +2,000 on broker = 20,000 + 4,000 gold
116,871 gold
415,200 tokens
816,821 + 41,600 gold
That's assuming you gain materials purely from tokens and succeeding enchantment at 100%, but 415,200 tokens mean 1384 Skyring solo's. That's 86.5 days assuming you do skyring solo 16 times each day (0.5 day being 8 vanguard on 87th day) if you only do this on single character. That's insane, even looking at gold being 800k+ is quite a lot, and I don't know how much gold you can even get on this patch since there's no tradable materials awarded from PvP that I'm aware of aside from Gems...
tl;dr, I don't know how you can purely grind for gear PvP-wise. You have to run PvE content-- at least, solo stuff, to aid you in doing so.
If you have tons of mat right now to convert to tokens later on, that's fine, but it's still severely inefficient. Low tier and Mid tier stuff are so easy to farm, it's very inefficient to use tokens for enchanting Low/Mid tier. I highly suggest NOT using tokens unless you're enchanting High tier or Top tier (or for crystals).
Oh, not to mention that BG's proficiency XP is not very rewarding in terms of time efficiency. They need multiply those current values by 2.5~3x or so to make it somewhat worth it for the time spent, so PvP players are at great disadvantage from only doing PvP content to actually gear-- they must invest in PvE as well to make that gearing process faster.
So, then again will be in a new patch were PvPers won't be able to be on equalgrounds (gear wise) against PvEers when playing BGs unless a PvPer grind mostly PvE content?
For those who focus in only one class and only one toon maybe is not that hard but for those who want to be on equal grounds in each of their alts when doing BGs that is an insane amount of time needed if one doesn't run Dungeons.
Since the lack of KS and Bell shops gearing and enchanting BiS throught pure PvP content is almost imposible to achieve.
It's not much of an issue for current PvP players because all they need to do is plan out what they need to buy and spend later on since they will have abundance of Remnants of change tokens which are cheaper to afford compared to Proofs. Ratios vary by material's tiers:
going with Remnants to Proofs ratio:
Low/Mid tier mat: 1:3
High tier mat: 1:6
Top tier mat : 1:12
so depending on which tier gear you'll be in, the mats needed will vary and etc...
But the overall issue here is that Time vs Profit efficiency does not make sense at all for BG's compared to PvE stuff, on top of the fact that their stupid reward boxes drop random materials or gems. the variety is simply "too big".
However, one way they can fix this is definitely reintroduction of BG specific currency such as BC/KS credit shop. However, BHS said that they had something else in mind, which is why those credit shops were scrapped. The issue is that this is way overdue as it has been closed for 3 patches, and the BG boxes are not very rewarding-- at least, not on my eyes.
To balance this out, there needs to be a better way for PvP players to gain their materials in more reliable way that is NOT from tokens or RNG boxes hoping for things you really need.
BHS did good job in removing the majority of RNG in gear progression, and adding harsh RNG is understandable at High tier and above-- but to neglect PvP focused players this way, I don't understand how they see this as "balanced". Even CU:V is a joke, and if they think CU:V is somekind of End-game PvP content, everyone would not be amused at all.
What they really need to make use of for PvP content, in my opinion, is openworld GvG system, not instance based like BG or CU:V. Several things need to be returned: Guild shops could be revamped in a way so that players can use Guild Contribution points to purchase items, as well as return of something similar to BC/KS credit shop so that players can purchase what they need themselves.
If they wanted players to become more social within guild, they could have made it so that people will want to earn guild contribution points. And one thing about that was they made it scale with how gold distribution was set by guild master-- but this can be manipulated anyways so there's not much of a point. Contribution points could have been an extra currency so that people can actually do something with it.
but that's just my opinion based on how I see it. Who knows, maybe BG is actually quite rewarding unlike my expectations, but i doubt it's any better than PvE method of grinding.
If PvP player can enlighten me with things, I'd gladly read them.
Yeah! I think BGs for PvPers should be like Dungeons for PvE, a way meant for PvPers to gear properly to do real GvG battles, but as you stated current PvP content even in KTera practically forces PvPers to run more PvE content if they aim to gear faster and properly for their own PvP activities.
And making it worse people could get you kicked from parties if you are not geared properly for PvE content, because of DPS means.
I mean, I saw an LFG kick a player from the group just becuase he was not full misery, even if that player (a dps class) had weapon, gloves, boots at +12, godsboon jewellery, yellow inners, superior brooch and proper rolls on gear to run PvE content (he also had T2 etchings), the leader from that raid said that if he wanted to run AIHM he should aim to get full misery first... I was like "Are you serious?".
With that ways of elitist behaviour towards players running PvE content PvPers have it even worse than them because if they get in to dungeons with PvP rolls you know what is goind to happen right away.
This is something that should be taken seriously as PvPers in this game are a good amount of the player and I don't think they spend less (directly or indirectly) than PvEers.
So it's the same as right now. Unrewarding for the time spent. I figured as much.
Thank you for the information.
Looks like its same mats you use for Rings/Earring/Neck/Belt
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1oNFyLfTcBLTAODN0WAeIcWpzhoKQY1d-9bgW40SedAs/edit#gid=505067801 < page down and check there yourself