Hackers in TERA

124

Comments

  • VunakVunak ✭✭
    EME doesn't have to make contact with hackers or developers. If they took a hardline stance and got their legal team involved and started issuing suits against these developers I would be extremely happy and they would win based on case law as there is already precedence for it.

    Remove all the toxic players that need these handicaps to be successful or the illusion of successful in game.
  • clfarron4 wrote: »

    This was in 2015, when Bathysmal Rise and Sky Cruiser Endeavor were the top dungeons.

    It's not memeslash, but it's a piercing projectile skill doing the exact same thing as memeslash.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this Arcane Pulse exploit no longer works thanks to a game update, right?
  • VindictingVindicting ✭✭✭
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Vindicting wrote: »
    The difference is I saw a lot of screenshot evidence from their side but you don't have any evidence for accusing them. If I recalled one of the devs even used megaphone to communicate with you in game and offered to solve the hack but you banned him.

    I get that it's hard to know who to believe. I guess I'm asking you to believe the ones that aren't causing all these problems for TERA players. They have more to prove as far as their good intentions go. For our part, we just want to make an awesome game that people enjoy. The more people enjoy the game, the more we all benefit. When people exploit and allow others to exploit... it only benefits the people making the exploits.

    Also, it is hard to prove a conversation didn't happen. The onus for us is to ban and stop hackers whenever possible, not ask them if they can help us stop them.
    It's hard to prove conversation didn't happen but it's easy to prove it did. Sorry if I'm being too sceptical but I'm basically asking you for some evidence since I saw a lot of screenshots posted by Meishu and others where they contacted you guys and you just ignored or dismissed them.

    I know some people are interested in the who's right who's wrong thing but personally I think most of us players just want a peaceful resolution. I know the proxy devs were at least initially very open to discussion but now they all sound jaded. For us players if you can help implement some of their works that aren't hacks then it would really improve our gameplay a lot.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    Spacecats wrote: »
    The very people writing scripts that you're angry about, who have been repeatedly banned, get regular player support. Some even pay money, supporting these hackers.

    Did you ever ask yourself why that is? Why do players sometimes stand behind these hackers and other times they rise up against them?
  • Spacecats wrote: »
    Now that you are openly answering, is there any official statement about why a bug from 2015 now know as Memeslash wasnt fix in your "security update"? This is game breaking, but wasnt even touched on the patch, which was mainly aimed at dpsmeters and proxy in general, even tho Memeslash can be done WITHOUT PROXY (omg, crazy ik). So even if u made proxy/dpsmeters obsolete, bug will still be there. Any info on that particular subject? @Spacecats

    If memeslash was made in 2015 it's news to me. The Valkyrie didn't even come out until this year. Granted it might be based off an existing hack, but then I'd question why people don't just use the original. You only see it with Valkyrie. Unless of course the original hack was made unusable by some kind of security fix.

    As for a fix, Bluehole is working to address it further. There was a hotfix, but definitely not the last hotfix to ever combat hacks. In fact Denommenator was on last Friday's Twitch stream. You should check out that conversation if you want to see an open answer to the situation:

    The bug has to do with proyectiles that go through bosses. As far as i know, ppl used it with the old Arcane Pulse (from pre rework sorc) and Zenobia’s Vortex from Priests. I believe proxy makes it easier to reproduce, but the bug has nothing to do with proxy, its a fault on the game code. I wish i could give u more info, but ive never written a code in my life (biotech student), but im sure that other ppl wouldnt mind explaining in dept how it worked.
    Just a clarification
    On the other way, one of the mistakes i feel you are making is asuming ppl are helping bc "they are evil hackers". They are doing they contribution, because they legit believe they are helping the comunity and Tera in general. And the funny thing is that, when ppl believe (either true or not) that they are doing the right thing, they wont back off.
  • Spacecats wrote: »
    Now that you are openly answering, is there any official statement about why a bug from 2015 now know as Memeslash wasnt fix in your "security update"? This is game breaking, but wasnt even touched on the patch, which was mainly aimed at dpsmeters and proxy in general, even tho Memeslash can be done WITHOUT PROXY (omg, crazy ik). So even if u made proxy/dpsmeters obsolete, bug will still be there. Any info on that particular subject? @Spacecats

    If memeslash was made in 2015 it's news to me. The Valkyrie didn't even come out until this year. Granted it might be based off an existing hack, but then I'd question why people don't just use the original. You only see it with Valkyrie. Unless of course the original hack was made unusable by some kind of security fix.

    As for a fix, Bluehole is working to address it further. There was a hotfix, but definitely not the last hotfix to ever combat hacks. In fact Denommenator was on last Friday's Twitch stream. You should check out that conversation if you want to see an open answer to the situation:

    The bug has to do with proyectiles that go through bosses. As far as i know, ppl used it with the old Arcane Pulse (from pre rework sorc) and Zenobia’s Vortex from Priests. I believe proxy makes it easier to reproduce, but the bug has nothing to do with proxy, its a fault on the game code. I wish i could give u more info, but ive never written a code in my life (biotech student), but im sure that other ppl wouldnt mind explaining in dept how it worked.
    Just a clarification
    On the other way, one of the mistakes i feel you are making is asuming ppl are helping bc "they are evil hackers". They are doing they contribution, because they legit believe they are helping the comunity and Tera in general. And the funny thing is that, when ppl believe (either true or not) that they are doing the right thing, they wont back off.

    Edit: late reply :c
  • clfarron4clfarron4 ✭✭✭
    edited August 29
    Spacecats wrote: »
    clfarron4 wrote: »

    This was in 2015, when Bathysmal Rise and Sky Cruiser Endeavor were the top dungeons.

    It's not memeslash, but it's a piercing projectile skill doing the exact same thing as memeslash.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this Arcane Pulse exploit no longer works thanks to a game update, right?

    It was probably fixed at the time, or not long after.

    However, since it is a piercing projectile skill, all someone would need to do today is modify the code that makes memeslash work by changing the skill affected to Arcane Pulse.

    The reason that people use Dream Slash over Arcane in this particular exploit is that it enables much more utility of the Valkyrie skill set than Arcane does for Sorc when executing the exploit.
  • VindictingVindicting ✭✭✭
    Spacecats wrote: »
    clfarron4 wrote: »

    This was in 2015, when Bathysmal Rise and Sky Cruiser Endeavor were the top dungeons.

    It's not memeslash, but it's a piercing projectile skill doing the exact same thing as memeslash.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but this Arcane Pulse exploit no longer works thanks to a game update, right?
    From what I was told it never stopped working.
  • edited August 29
    Vindicting wrote: »
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Vindicting wrote: »
    The difference is I saw a lot of screenshot evidence from their side but you don't have any evidence for accusing them. If I recalled one of the devs even used megaphone to communicate with you in game and offered to solve the hack but you banned him.

    I get that it's hard to know who to believe. I guess I'm asking you to believe the ones that aren't causing all these problems for TERA players. They have more to prove as far as their good intentions go. For our part, we just want to make an awesome game that people enjoy. The more people enjoy the game, the more we all benefit. When people exploit and allow others to exploit... it only benefits the people making the exploits.

    Also, it is hard to prove a conversation didn't happen. The onus for us is to ban and stop hackers whenever possible, not ask them if they can help us stop them.
    It's hard to prove conversation didn't happen but it's easy to prove it did. Sorry if I'm being too sceptical but I'm basically asking you for some evidence since I saw a lot of screenshots posted by Meishu and others where they contacted you guys and you just ignored or dismissed them.

    I know some people are interested in the who's right who's wrong thing but personally I think most of us players just want a peaceful resolution. I know the proxy devs were at least initially very open to discussion but now they all sound jaded. For us players if you can help implement some of their works that aren't hacks then it would really improve our gameplay a lot.

    I think you're being skeptical in the wrong direction. I don't have any screenshots to show you. If you want I can go make a fake Discord account with Meishu's name and then... um... not have any conversations whatsoever with it. ;D

    I've seen screenshots of entire discussions between people in random chat channels calling themselves Spacecats, Tonka, Noesis, Denommenator, and a dozen other people. If you want to PM me the screenshots you're talking about, that's fine and I can tell you what I think in private. Other than that I don't see how this conversation can continue in any way and it's kind of derailing the thread.
  • VindictingVindicting ✭✭✭
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Vindicting wrote: »
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Vindicting wrote: »
    The difference is I saw a lot of screenshot evidence from their side but you don't have any evidence for accusing them. If I recalled one of the devs even used megaphone to communicate with you in game and offered to solve the hack but you banned him.

    I get that it's hard to know who to believe. I guess I'm asking you to believe the ones that aren't causing all these problems for TERA players. They have more to prove as far as their good intentions go. For our part, we just want to make an awesome game that people enjoy. The more people enjoy the game, the more we all benefit. When people exploit and allow others to exploit... it only benefits the people making the exploits.

    Also, it is hard to prove a conversation didn't happen. The onus for us is to ban and stop hackers whenever possible, not ask them if they can help us stop them.
    It's hard to prove conversation didn't happen but it's easy to prove it did. Sorry if I'm being too sceptical but I'm basically asking you for some evidence since I saw a lot of screenshots posted by Meishu and others where they contacted you guys and you just ignored or dismissed them.

    I know some people are interested in the who's right who's wrong thing but personally I think most of us players just want a peaceful resolution. I know the proxy devs were at least initially very open to discussion but now they all sound jaded. For us players if you can help implement some of their works that aren't hacks then it would really improve our gameplay a lot.

    I think you're being skeptical in the wrong direction. I don't have any screenshots to show you. If you want I can go make a fake Discord account with Meishu's name and then... um... not have any conversations whatsoever with it. ;D

    I've seen screenshots of entire discussions between people in random chat channels calling themselves Spacecats, Tonka, Noesis, Denommenator, and a dozen other people. If you want to PM me the screenshots you're talking about, that's fine and I can tell you what I think in private. Other than that I don't see how this conversation can continue in any way and it's kind of derailing the thread.
    OK let's not derail this thread and of course like you said evidence can be forged but one of the devs actually cited this as the reason why he did it directly on the EME official stream so the legitimacy of him contacting you can't be denied. As far as I'm aware he basically said you guys just banned him and there was no follow up.
  • On the other way, one of the mistakes i feel you are making is asuming ppl are helping bc "they are evil hackers". They are doing they contribution, because they legit believe they are helping the comunity and Tera in general. And the funny thing is that, when ppl believe (either true or not) that they are doing the right thing, they wont back off.

    Please don't misquote me. I don't think hackers are evil.

    I agree it's ironic that people who believe they're helping the game continue to harm it and allow others to harm it. It's also a bit sad to think about. You'd think getting every one of your accounts banned would send a pretty clear message that they should stop and go play another game, but until they do I'm afraid they'll continue to do malicious things and claim they're benevolent. For our part, we'll keep working with honest players and Bluehole, sharing what information we can, applying game updates as we get them, and banning hackers whenever possible.
  • mosku wrote: »
    @Spacecats Hello, i just wanted to ask a very simple question.

    How would you explain and what you would to tell to players playing from far away locations to the server, to anyone outside of the US or even inside that get normally 100ms all the time, 200ms up to 300ms or worse if they're out.

    Do you think it's fine they have to feel completely restrained because of their ping, having All, actions be delayed, each one of them just because of their ping, legit playes, wanting to have fun, do you as a another player, think this is fine?

    I can completely understand hacking but the state of the game in certain aspects is deplorable and not enjoyable at all, it's a matter of that, if you're a player yourself, you would understand how ping affects tera's gameplay and you would care for it, probably.

    Does EME, or even BHS, care for the player's experience they have on the game? I'm legit curious because this is no joke, and saying it is, it's just being completely blind and insensitive of the playerbase the game carries on. Please answer with honesty.

    I'm curious about this too
  • VindictingVindicting ✭✭✭
    edited August 29
    Spacecats wrote: »
    On the other way, one of the mistakes i feel you are making is asuming ppl are helping bc "they are evil hackers". They are doing they contribution, because they legit believe they are helping the comunity and Tera in general. And the funny thing is that, when ppl believe (either true or not) that they are doing the right thing, they wont back off.

    Please don't misquote me. I don't think hackers are evil.

    I agree it's ironic that people who believe they're helping the game continue to harm it and allow others to harm it. It's also a bit sad to think about. You'd think getting every one of your accounts banned would send a pretty clear message that they should stop and go play another game, but until they do I'm afraid they'll continue to do malicious things and claim they're benevolent. For our part, we'll keep working with honest players and Bluehole, sharing what information we can, applying game updates as we get them, and banning hackers whenever possible.
    In my job I don't work with MMOs but I do work with accounts and security systems online, one of the lessons I remember most clearly was when a management staff gave a lecture on the relationship between exploits, billing issues and bans. The gist of that lecture was that banning is often not useful because people can just make an account and do it again, especially when there's no barrier to making another account. They put up data showing that aggressive banning methods often resulted in more fraud.

    I think what I'm saying is even more true in MMOs. I used to read a lot of Riot's player behavior team articles about how to deal with hackers and why they don't do permabans unless it's for the most serious of offence. Basically if you ban people they will just come back and since they lost everything they will just hack to try get it all back, but if you talk to them or suspend with a clear reason, you're basically telling them stop or you'll lose everything.

    In fact, big and successful gaming companies like Blizzard, Riot and Jagex have long histories of hiring hackers into their security team. Government agencies and Antivirus companies do the same thing, because unsurprisingly hackers are the best anti-hackers.

    I think this really applies a lot here. One of my bosses used to say something along the lines of:
    You should never think of your clients as your enemies, but instead you should design your system to make them think of you as a friend.

    He was probably the most senior and most successful boss I ever worked under.
  • AngelineAngeline ✭✭✭
    clfarron4 wrote: »

    Erm. Hello? https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/comment/173344/#Comment_173344

    I think you missed another type of post

    What?
  • PixelatorPixelator ✭✭✭✭
    *Hint* https://nowloading.co/p/the-legal-battle-between-blizzard-and-bossland-over-bots-and-cheats/4240236 *Hint*

    You probably won't extract anything from the Phd student or the unemployed brony, but the supposed doctor is ripe for a shaking. (Especially considering he has made a pretty sizable profit from these scripts)
This discussion has been closed.