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How to counter Valkyrie in PvP?
I just wanted to know if anyone has some tips on how to counter Valkyrie in 1v1 or in group play. In 1v1 their slash-stagger speed and range appears to be superior to every other melee. In battlegrounds their incredibly fast dash + unlimited-target giga pull seems to CC and wipe teams before they get the chance to pass the choke and reach the middle of gridiron or FWC. Are there any unconventional strategies or tips in dealing with this?
I've tried to put down ninja smoke bombs on my teammates when they are pulled together but that's usually reactionary for after they have already been giga'd and assumes I'm not also CC'd. My other approach has been to put archer traps down where they will hopefully be dashing through and hope they get stunned so my team can actually reach mid. Of course, valks don't even have to be close to activate their giga on a target so chances are the team will get CC'd together regardless.
In 1v1 their Slash resets to first hit so quickly that they can spam staggers faster than you can iframe. Is there a way to deal with this besides using a ranged cc ability (which they could iframe themselves)??
I've tried to put down ninja smoke bombs on my teammates when they are pulled together but that's usually reactionary for after they have already been giga'd and assumes I'm not also CC'd. My other approach has been to put archer traps down where they will hopefully be dashing through and hope they get stunned so my team can actually reach mid. Of course, valks don't even have to be close to activate their giga on a target so chances are the team will get CC'd together regardless.
In 1v1 their Slash resets to first hit so quickly that they can spam staggers faster than you can iframe. Is there a way to deal with this besides using a ranged cc ability (which they could iframe themselves)??
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As a Ninja you'll typically be the first to die or last to die in group PvP. First to die because melee cloth. Last to die because Rallying Cry + Kaia's shield makes you useless the first 20 seconds of the fight and that's usually when the fight is already decided.
I typically always stand off to the side and wait to see which side lands the meaty Dark Herald or Chained Leash. If your teammates get the short end of the stick on the initial engagement, use your smoke to save them all. If your team lands the meaty Giga or DH, smoke your primary damage dealers to avoid a counter engagement or interruption.
Pay close attention to your enemy team in a group engagement. If for some unknown reason they don't have Kaia's Shield, you can try to snuff their engagement with your safe staggers such as thousand cuts or bladestorm.
If they do have Kaia's don't get in range of Dark Herald or Chained Leash. Also, don't jump straight in to smoke everyone when you see them grouped from DH. Always wait for Valk's Overhand Slash, that thing has a stupidly huge hitbox.
TL;DR Play the supportive role off the engagement in group PvP against Valk. Offensive Smoke or defensive smoke. Don't get pulled in by Dark Herald.
For 1v1s...
Also assuming you're Ninja. The main things to keep eyes on is Dark Herald and their Backstab. If they get you with either of the two, you're dead. I bring focus to these two skills because they're both 15m+ catching skills that are unreactable (almost unreactable to Valk's Backstab). You as a Ninja do not have access to a 15m+ skill that is unreactable that transitions into a kill.
If you don't have god ping, then you have to predict both of these two skills. If you see a Valk rune mark and dash towards you, be sure to iframe as they're most likely planning on using Dark Herald. However, be warned that a good Valk will dash towards you, watch as you iframes, then maybe you'll iframe again, then maybe you'll thousand cuts, then maybe you'll iframe some more, then maybe you'll smoke, then maybe you'll iframe some more, then... you see where this is going?
The Valk has to be bad enough to use Dark Herald as you're iframing to miss it because it is unreactable. However, you have enough iframes as a Ninja to hopefully have your opponent whiff it. As long as they have Dark Herald not on CD though, it's very risky to go for aggression.
Double Cut does have a longer reach than Valk's combo attack, but this is assuming the Valk will stand still for the second hit of Double Cut to connect. Which is stupid. The first hit of Double Cut has very nice horizontal range, but it's about the same as Valk's combo attack so... yeah.
Honestly OP, at the end of the day, it comes down to player skill, so when you see a Valk, try and see if you can get a good feel for how good they are. If you feel like you can beat them in a 1v1 because you're more skilled, **** them up. If you think they're a Vlk that is actually good, run the **** away. You're a Ninja, pick and choose your fights. Hell, Fire Avalanche out of there if you have to.
On paper though, a Ninja should never be able to beat a Valk in a 1v1.
But again, player skill is a thing. Just requires far less coming from a Valk.
Also you really shouldn't be getting caught in your own choke at mid anyway, your team is just as capable of running up to mid and getting to pyre instead of being at choke. If the enemies are getting to your team at the choke, your team is just bad and probably deserves to lose to valk pull/giga/ground pound cheese anyway to be honest.
As for counter valk [filtered], ragnarok is going to be an even bigger thing after unequalized fwc comes cause most people will have to rag point boost. Fortunately, valks can't dodge plague except by terrain, so healers should be aware of this and be on the lookout to plague/regress rag frequently. Sadly I rarely see heals do this even in unequalized where rag is hard to get, so expect valks to be a little stronger cause of this change.
1v1 it really depends on what class you're playing, and most likely if your ping is bad, you are going to be at the mercy of the valk stagger locking you. However, it may be good for you to try spamming super armor moves or cc moves with hitboxes that come out very fast if you have them, sometimes they seem to work better at getting you out of stagger locks than just spamming iframe, or they can lead to starting your own combo instead of you just escaping and then having to set up a combo again, or if you use superarmor, you won't have wasted an iframe once you're out
Basically as a ninja do not let anything that staggers, or stuns, hit you. That's pretty general advice but ninjas have that capability due to their escape skills and iframes. Just play the class very quickly and don't let other melee classes catch you. Just keep in mind 1k Cuts voids Dark Herald, Decoy Bomb is a good counter to Overhead Slash(the stun), and that you can stagger them faster than they can stagger you. Also a good tip when fighting generic valks is to engage by immediately i-framing so you burn up their Backstab, sometimes I would just throw a smoke bomb and laugh as they lost the only engage they know. Although Backstab doesn't stagger anymore so ninjas won't have to worry about that anymore.
Also a general tip for FWC, and Gridiron especially, is to use Jagged Path and get to mid as soon as possible and throw a Bladestorm at the opposing team so they stay in the choke, then follow it up with additional staggers/kds/stuns and throw a smoke bomb to cover yourself and team. if you do it correctly it will set up your team for what I like to call a Giga Dunk. There's nothing more useful for team fights than 1-2 ninjas who know how and when to throw Bladestorms. Most of the biggest wipes I've experienced were due to ninjas doing that.
It's not the best in BGs though. That might be where his experiences lie.
For pvp valks 1v1:
Oh and not sure about other classes without block but basically block and bait their huge aoe stun after that combo them and don't let them get it off, also don't let your RE (lancer/dwar) get literally consumed by dark herald u gonna haft too backstep/iframe it which is great for a leash right after cuz they vulnerable during the animation if you iframe it right
You just said the best 1v1 class was Gunner earlier.
Elyiess isn't wrong by saying Brawler is the best 1v1 class in Tera and to stay on topic, especially after this recent Valk nerf.
I believe you're a Lancer main so I can see why your #1 and #2 gives you the most trouble.
Rising Fury and Double Cut are some of the best tools to play around block.
However, keep in mind that "best 1v1 class" is dependant on match-up against all classes and not just the class you play.
I agree that Gunner is very good in 1v1 though. The worst match-up in Tera 1v1 is most likely Gunner vs Berserker. It's stressful enough that the Berserker can never get a true KD combo on a Gunner (thanks recall and retaliate) but it's also stressful that they can't ever play at melee range unless they popped tenacity (at which the Gunner can easily peel away). Gunners also say **** you block so have fun as a Berserker.
Gunner is a class that has extremely good match-ups (ex: Berserker, Ninjas, Slayers etc...) but gets absolutely dumpstered on by classes with high damage and on command stuns that requires no stagger (thanks recall).
Classes like Reaper for example are great against Gunners.
Brawler is a class with literally no bad match up in particular.
I'd still say that Valks are still extremely high on this 1v1 chart if one is ever put together.
You can't ignore that their infinite potential is both easy and that it exists.
I used to duel Kwon 24/7, so its really easy to believe.
There's really no concrete data on an actual 1v1 tier list at the moment. It's mostly just opinions. Mine would be more of:
S Tier
- Brawler (No bad match ups in particular. Extremely tanky and doesn't lack on damage)
- Gunner (Untouchable by most melee classes and l0lrecall)
- D Stance Warrior (Great single target capabilities, tanky, and bursty)
A Tier
- Valkyrie (Easiest infinite in the game and next to no cooldowns on hard CC abilities)
- Lancer (Not too many bad match ups, tanky, and has great single target lockdown potential)
- Reaper (Tons of damage, tons of staggers, and tons of stuns.)
B Tier
- Archer (Strongest single target combo in the game. Can literally end a duel in one catch from 15m+)
- Ninja (Very safe with tons of iframe options. Great against blocking classes)
- Sorcerer (Technical and has the most CC and defensive options. A lot of mix ups)
C Tier
- A Stance Warrior (One combo backstab maybe? Depends on the the match up)
- Slayer (Good trading and super armor capabilities. However, forced to be the aggressor in most match ups with telegraphed tools)
- A Stance Berserker (Not enough info on current serkers)
- D Stance Berserker (Not enough info on current serkers)
> Lancer requires too much knowledge to play. I see lancers get eaten everyday and with resist on leash and barrage it makes it extremely punishing to even land skills now. Also easier to outplay a lancer because only form of engage is leash and barrage.
It's not that hard to engage with those when you have regular auto movement speed slow, lockdownblow slow with glyph and leash glyphed kinda counters that but I mean lancer is more of a support class, Not as heavy on damage like Brawler most of our kit is buffs and giger lesh