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Lancer Question

KaleeseeKaleesee
edited October 2017 in PvE Discussion
Which is better - AR/GS at pull or after 10 Stacks of HtL? Please elaborate some if you can on how to pro start to a fight with this class. Ty!

Comments

  • Something942Something942 ✭✭
    When you first start a boss fight you should pop enrage and AR/GS as soon as physically possible. Ideally you're popping enrage before the DPS have hit the boss, and you have AR/GS up before they can pop their big skills. Here's how I do it

    Brooch right before I go in -> charging lunge in and hit boss -> enrage -> arush -> gshout

    The additional attack speed at the start makes sure you can pop enrage and AR/GS fast, and hitting him with charging lunge makes sure you have aggro for those crucial first seconds. Knowing when to use enrage and AR/GS is the 2nd most important thing for lancer only behind holding aggro. When the boss bar is glowing red he's enraged, NEVER pop enrage during this it wastes it. Once the bar turns to normal, then you pop enrage then arush/gshout. There's a thing called double enraging too, bosses naturally enrage during the fight right? So you pop arush/gshout while they're normally enraged, then right when it's over you pop your enrage. Besides that, if the boss turns his back towards you backstep in him and go to the front. Otherwise DPS will go to the back then he'll turn to face you and they'll have to get in position again, wasting valuable backtime. If you do all this, you're good.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    Don't think 10 stacks of Hold the Line is what you're asking for, but instead it's 3 stacks of Debilitate. Haven't done any math myself but I much prefer to Debilitate 3 stacks before I use buffs/enrage, since 12% lowered endurance seems like a lot imo. This also ensures aggro is stable before you buff the party. I've played with DPS who severely outgear my lancer and if I enrage at the beginning even after charging lunge, aggro gets ripped away immediately. Then the boss starts turning etc., which is annoying.
  • CassandraTRCassandraTR ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    In a random party, does it matter? You're not going to wipe over it. Pop Gshout on all members, run in, debil, enrage, wallop/block/spring if needed, Arush (dps should be there by now,) brooch, debil, and go to town.

    In a parse/guild run, ideally you have already communicated this, or are using discord/skype/etc to maximize your burn phase.

    Some dungeons rarely let you build 10 stacks anyways. It's possible to lose it during the time from the mobs to lilith in LKHM, as well as in TRHM if even only a single person takes too long.
  • feazesherofeazeshero ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    I usually run in and hit debilitate + spring attack first, so this way the endurance debuff is up right away on the boss. It also gives me some damage into the aggro table. Next I will anticipate if boss will hit me or not. I will quickly block and return with shield counter + spring attack if he/she does. Then quickly enrage and guardian shout. After this, most likely the boss will hit me again. I block but not counter, instead I will A rush + brooch + beer. Then debilitate + spring attack, get the 2nd debuff stack and so on. By doing all this, usually I get all this done in about 3-4 seconds. Tbh, it depends on the boss so sometimes what you normally do. You may have to alter some things but for the most part that is how it is. I don't use the quickcarve brooch like most lancers do before hand since I have a personal issue with my keybinds, something that uh, I have to fix but never did.

    I've also seen some lancers where they like to pop guardian shout before running into the battle but it's like the party is not even in position yet, so this is a waste of at least 3-5 seconds of guardian shout on everyone. That is not good practice but it's also not wrong either. Just preferably best to wait and make sure all your people are in position and/or in range.

    Speaking of HTL, you get to build some of it at the start slowly. But trying to get full 10 stacks while in battle and then use your buffs is not a very good practice. The party will probably have popped their stuff already (like 10-15 seconds ago) and gone to waste. They would be probably be wondering where are the buffs hmm. They wouldn't appreciate that lol. So as a lancer you want to support your party first, your HTL and dps will come slowly at the start. The way I start the battle as I mentioned earlier, I usually can get about 2-4 stacks by the time I cast all the buffs. But in no way should you ever focus on getting 10 stack like that at the start, since you will get all 10 stacks real quick if you time things right as the battle progresses.

    Pro tip:

    If you do want to get full 10 stacks before the battle there is a way actually. Tell your party not to hit the boss yet and you can go in and build your stacks with blocks. As long as everyone including you don't hit the boss, it won't start the timer of the boss at all. This is the better method than having you run in alone, building the stacks and then resetting the boss. These kinds of things are I guess if you're into having the full 10 stacks from the start kind of stuff. I wouldn't recommend this if you're still learning or trying to improve as a lancer.

  • feazesherofeazeshero ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    Haloist wrote: »
    Don't think 10 stacks of Hold the Line is what you're asking for, but instead it's 3 stacks of Debilitate. Haven't done any math myself but I much prefer to Debilitate 3 stacks before I use buffs/enrage, since 12% lowered endurance seems like a lot imo. This also ensures aggro is stable before you buff the party. I've played with DPS who severely outgear my lancer and if I enrage at the beginning even after charging lunge, aggro gets ripped away immediately. Then the boss starts turning etc., which is annoying.

    Some people rip the aggro fast because they are too quick while the lancer is still trying to get everything up. If you're only using charging lunge to hit the boss, this skill does not hit for a lot of damage. Charging lunge should never be used as a skill. It should only be used for running/evading purposes. Instead you run in and it's better to sneak a shield barrage + spring attack or debilitate + spring attack, those will give you much more damage in the aggro table at the start. For the most part, if you can somehow fit in those skills in those 2-3 seconds, then you should be able to get up Enrage + GS + AR and keep aggro just fine.
  • KaleeseeKaleesee ✭✭
    Ty everyone for your reply's juicy stuff <3<3<3<3<3
  • BjondBjond ✭✭
    I usually terminate my charges with wallop -- both for the agro due to a bigger hit and for it's frontal in case the boss likes to respond quickly.

    However, I've been wondering myself about the enraging before or after 3x debilitate. My lancer isn't even on Frost, yet. Judging by agro flips from stormish deeps, my contribution is too low to worry about doing anything but buffing the party and providing the dps with their best shot at maximizing. When I do get flips, I start preshouting, too -- not quite on CD, but pretty nearly whenever it feels good to wedge one in -- and it seems to help a fair bit on keeping things steady.

    Sounds like the consensus is debilitate AFTER enrage and don't hold out for that 12%.
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