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Rumors of groups getting account suspensions over wbams?

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Comments

  • LegolamLegolam ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    safe-space servers and carebear players LOL, what a joke.

    What's next, banning people for "joining their iod channel"
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    There's a difference between rules and rules so vague, you can apply them to anything you don't like. If competitive play between teams is breaking the spirit of the game, then what exactly isn't breaking it? Oh, right, I forgot. The spirit of Tera is not about skill, it's about luck.
    I don't think you can really argue that kill-stealing was an intended "competitive game mechanic" on PvE servers, even though people may have tried to make it so. Kill-stealing has been against MMO etiquette for decades now. On a PvP server it's obviously different (since that competitive aspect is baked in to the gameplay), but PvE is just that: player-vs-environment. Player-vs-player is not intended in the open world, except when both sides initiate it.

    That said, if you consider it vague/obscure, I fully support having some sort of welcome message on all PvE servers that explains "No KS" just like the old days.

    Being against the etiquette =/= being against the rule. Stop acting like it's the same thing. The whole reason it's against the etiquette in the first place is because it has always been allowed and the only repercussions have always been social, player imposed penalties.

    You don't think "breaking the spirit of the game" is absurdly vague? But, hey, it's not like they haven't used this very rule to ban somebody for PKing on a PvP server so it's not like it can apply to anything... Oh, wait.

    Also, what constitutes KS? What if I saw the mob first but you hit it before me because you are ranged? What if I was pulling mobs but you put down an AoE? What if I was camping the mob but you just happened to come by as it spawned and hit it first? What if you outdps'd me and got the reward? What if I've been grinding on the spot for 1h and then you come by to kill some mobs also? In which of these cases do I get to say it was my own personal mob that you stole from me and deserve to be banned? And, yes, every single one of these things has been called "KS" by people. But, sure, not vague at all, totally on point, not at all open to interpretation.
  • Halrath wrote: »
    So current rumor mill is a group got banned because they reset a world boss another group was killing..Then killed it themselves..Got a three day ban for not sharing loot with the group that was there first..
    "Breaking the spirit of the game"


    Is this going to be a common thing? Because..hell..I do that to people on a daily basis..multiple times a day..

    If you do that on a PvP server, it's totally fine because that is intended. PvP away.

    If you do it on a PvE server, it's supremely uncool and will be punished. It's not like the group that tagged the critter can defend their kill.

    Is that what we're doing these days? Because it's "uncool" it makes it punishable?

    I think specific guilds selling harrowhold runs for marrow brooches is uncool. Ban them too.
  • TewiiTewii ✭✭✭
    Resetting a mob to un-tag is obviously not a good thing to do. It's abusing game mechanics to do something not intended ingame.

    It doesn't have to be a bug to be abuse.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    @Tewii i assume you reported every quil seller, every bone seller, every marrow brooch seller you ever met, right? Because that's also abusing game mechanics to do something not intended in game.
  • LegolamLegolam ✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    The logical answer is to remove the bams and remove all MMO components because player-to-player interactions is too triggering and promotes micro-aggresions.
  • TWMagimay wrote: »
    But, sure, not vague at all, totally on point, not at all open to interpretation.
    I don't have a problem with being open to interpretation -- don't do things to grief other players, and you won't get close to the line. And that's exactly what this was in this case -- griefing. KSing is against etiquette, but when people are doing it deliberately to grief other players, it was always enforceable in the past too.
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    But, hey, it's not like they haven't used this very rule to ban somebody for PKing on a PvP server so it's not like it can apply to anything... Oh, wait.
    Yes, after giving ample warnings to not grief newbies in Lumbertown. Again, the key point here not being "oh they were PKing on a PvP server" but they were going out of their way to grief newbies on new-class launch days despite many EME warnings not to do that (and, in some cases, clear evidence that they were aware of such warnings and did it anyway). Again, I don't see the big problem here.

    The job of GMs is to interpret the rules and take actions that encourage fairplay and reduce griefing/harrassment/trolling/etc. I don't think they've always done enough in that regard, and that can give the impression of it being unfair. But as a statement of policy and principle, I think things like KSing should be forbidden on PvE servers, and enforced accordingly particularly when it crosses the line into griefing. Obviously you can't prevent accidents like two people hitting at the same time, but that isn't malicious or deliberate either -- one of the two parties just stops and moves on. But things like the case explained here are clearly trying to screw the other party out of their kill.

    Just because you can't write some sort of ironclad rule-set that covers every possible permutation of the scenario doesn't mean the principle should not exist or be enforced.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    But, sure, not vague at all, totally on point, not at all open to interpretation.
    I don't have a problem with being open to interpretation -- don't do things to grief other players, and you won't get close to the line. And that's exactly what this was in this case -- griefing. KSing is against etiquette, but when people are doing it deliberately to grief other players, it was always enforceable in the past too.
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    But, hey, it's not like they haven't used this very rule to ban somebody for PKing on a PvP server so it's not like it can apply to anything... Oh, wait.
    Yes, after giving ample warnings to not grief newbies in Lumbertown. Again, the key point here not being "oh they were PKing on a PvP server" but they were going out of their way to grief newbies on new-class launch days despite many EME warnings not to do that (and, in some cases, clear evidence that they were aware of such warnings and did it anyway). Again, I don't see the big problem here.

    The job of GMs is to interpret the rules and take actions that encourage fairplay and reduce griefing/harrassment/trolling/etc. I don't think they've always done enough in that regard, and that can give the impression of it being unfair. But as a statement of policy and principle, I think things like KSing should be forbidden on PvE servers, and enforced accordingly particularly when it crosses the line into griefing. Obviously you can't prevent accidents like two people hitting at the same time, but that isn't malicious or deliberate either -- one of the two parties just stops and moves on. But things like the case explained here are clearly trying to screw the other party out of their kill.

    Just because you can't write some sort of ironclad rule-set that covers every possible permutation of the scenario doesn't mean the principle should not exist or be enforced.

    You know what, you convinced me. let me go make a char on a PvE server and report people who just wanna do their quest. I'm sure you'll be perfectly happy to see a bunch of new players get banned because, ya know, I was grinding there and they KS'd me for their silly little quests, those unethical beeps.
  • edited October 2017
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    But, sure, not vague at all, totally on point, not at all open to interpretation.
    I don't have a problem with being open to interpretation -- don't do things to grief other players, and you won't get close to the line. And that's exactly what this was in this case -- griefing. KSing is against etiquette, but when people are doing it deliberately to grief other players, it was always enforceable in the past too.
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    But, hey, it's not like they haven't used this very rule to ban somebody for PKing on a PvP server so it's not like it can apply to anything... Oh, wait.
    Yes, after giving ample warnings to not grief newbies in Lumbertown. Again, the key point here not being "oh they were PKing on a PvP server" but they were going out of their way to grief newbies on new-class launch days despite many EME warnings not to do that (and, in some cases, clear evidence that they were aware of such warnings and did it anyway). Again, I don't see the big problem here.

    The job of GMs is to interpret the rules and take actions that encourage fairplay and reduce griefing/harrassment/trolling/etc. I don't think they've always done enough in that regard, and that can give the impression of it being unfair. But as a statement of policy and principle, I think things like KSing should be forbidden on PvE servers, and enforced accordingly particularly when it crosses the line into griefing. Obviously you can't prevent accidents like two people hitting at the same time, but that isn't malicious or deliberate either -- one of the two parties just stops and moves on. But things like the case explained here are clearly trying to screw the other party out of their kill.

    Just because you can't write some sort of ironclad rule-set that covers every possible permutation of the scenario doesn't mean the principle should not exist or be enforced.

    You know what, you convinced me. let me go make a char on a PvE server and report people who just wanna do their quest. I'm sure you'll be perfectly happy to see a bunch of new players get banned because, ya know, I was grinding there and they KS'd me for their silly little quests, those unethical beeps.

    You're not proving any point with this absurd example. The principle is "the spirit of the game." You can't arbitrarily claim an area of the world map where people are doing quests and say all the monsters are yours because you say so, and neither will EME consider that kill-stealing just because you argue it is. This is exactly why they have the ability to interpret rules and not just stick to some literal dictionary-like definition like a rule-enforcing machine.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2017
    This is exactly why they have the ability to interpret rules and not just stick to some literal dictionary-like definition like a rule-enforcing machine.

    Yeah, I guess it adds to the suspense of the game. Anything you do can get you banned because there is this vague rule a GM can freely interpret and you can never know if something is OK to do or not. Sounds just lovely, perfectly within the spirit of the game, I guess. I was gonna say I'm glad I don't party much or socialise with people but that might be interpreted as not being in the spirit of the game and....boom goes the banhammer.

    PS: That "absurd example" is actually a thing that happens in Tera. You'd probably be surprised by the amount of people who've accused me of KSing them when I was doing that quest right outside the trading post as they were grinding the mobs to level. Regular events are now absurd as we abolish dictionaries, I guess.
  • edited October 2017
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    This is exactly why they have the ability to interpret rules and not just stick to some literal dictionary-like definition like a rule-enforcing machine.

    Yeah, I guess it adds to the suspense of the game. Anything you do can get you banned because there is this vague rule a GM can freely interpret and you can never know if something is OK to do or not. Sounds just lovely, perfectly within the spirit of the game, I guess. I was gonna say I'm glad I don't party much or socialise with people but that might be interpreted as not being in the spirit of the game and....boom goes the banhammer.

    Are you going out of your way to deliberately grief someone in the game? Are you doing something that gives yourself an unintended and unfair advantage? If so, it's probably subject to GM enforcement!

    Reducing every argument to its absurd extreme serves no purpose. If you're just going to argue that kill-stealing should be allowed because there are other ways of dealing with it, then at least it's a defensible position, even if I don't personally agree. But this "we can't enforce principles because no one will ever possibly know when the banhammer might be coming for them next!" is silly.
  • LOL this is actually a joke this rule hasn't existed for 6 years and all of the sudden its a rule what about when people would troll people getting laurels or troll people doing ibams why weren't they banned now all of the sudden people are getting banned lmfao

    People were banned in vm2 for resetting dragons.

    I remember resetting so many ibams on ppl during vm2 during the PvE blocks no1 in guild ever got banned...
  • PVP servers is literally about fighting for PVE content in OW... so... of course they wouldn't punish for that.
  • TWMagimay wrote: »
    @Tewii i assume you reported every quil seller, every bone seller, every marrow brooch seller you ever met, right? Because that's also abusing game mechanics to do something not intended in game.

    No. They beat the mechanics technically with a handicap and didn't need the entirety of the deck given to them, they didn't abuse anything they merely cashed out on the fact they were superior to others in that instance in that particular moment, nothing was abused.
  • TWMagimay wrote: »
    This is exactly why they have the ability to interpret rules and not just stick to some literal dictionary-like definition like a rule-enforcing machine.

    Yeah, I guess it adds to the suspense of the game. Anything you do can get you banned because there is this vague rule a GM can freely interpret and you can never know if something is OK to do or not. Sounds just lovely, perfectly within the spirit of the game, I guess. I was gonna say I'm glad I don't party much or socialise with people but that might be interpreted as not being in the spirit of the game and....boom goes the banhammer.

    Are you going out of your way to deliberately grief someone in the game? Are you doing something that gives yourself an unintended and unfair advantage? If so, it's probably subject to GM enforcement!

    Reducing every argument to its absurd extreme serves no purpose. If you're just going to argue that kill-stealing should be allowed because there are other ways of dealing with it, then at least it's a defensible position, even if I don't personally agree. But this "we can't enforce principles because no one will ever possibly know when the banhammer might be coming for them next!" is silly.

    counterpoint, TWMagimay is obviously a troll, there is no way someone in their right mind would make senseless arguments like these. He lives in a world of black and white where a plain quest mob is equal to a world boss in the scenarios of steal killing. He could argue that any type of steal killing should be treated with equal punishment. F that, there's a reason why a person who steals a penny will be treated differently from a person who steals a million dollars. Authority figures no matter how flawed they may seem at times still have common sense to tell them what type of steal killing is punishable and what is not. "Vague rule" my [filtered], it's effin common sense.
This discussion has been closed.