Permanent Crystal Bind Being Removed...[Discussion]

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  • jongbaejongbae ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    As an end game player, I hope you reconsider this change. I have Champion Laurel without those archivements, it’s 20 points come on. OR AT LEAST if you are giving crystalbinds on elite boxes, give Complete Crystalbinds (12 hours) not 6 hours. It will become an extra slot of more stuff in your inventory that could be avoided. BE [filtered] SMART EME FOR ONCE JESUS
  • MargaretheMargarethe ✭✭✭✭
    @iLucky

    https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/11983/please-make-ccb-a-passive-elite-buff/p1

    *Chuckle*
    When did I say I do not value it?
    Only believe it unfair if you're hunting achievements.

    Agree removing the perk isn't the best option.
    Would recommend a toggle option or moving both achievements to the Special tab.

    (Previous post was removed due to editing.)
  • edited December 2017
    Hey all. After reading through everything posted, it looks like you all have a pretty good idea WHY the change is being made. Here's a copy-paste from the patch notes for context:
    To unblock elite status players from gaining the “Imperfect Crystals” and “Ideal Crystals” achievements, we have changed how we deliver Crystalbinding to those players:
    • We have removed Continuous Crystalbind from elite status player accounts.
    • We have added four Complete Veteran Crystalbinds (6 hours) to the daily Elite Consumable Box so players can decide if they want to run with or without Complete Crystalbinds.

    The TERA team agrees this isn't the ultimate solution, but we hated the idea that a feature/effect we added was actually blocking people from game content. That's literally one of the worst things we can do, even if it's really minor game content like an achievement. When the perma-crystalbind effect was added, we failed to take those achievements into account and it actually resulted in quite a few Customer Support tickets even if the topic was only brought up in the forums by a few people.

    For those of you saying "just have CS unlock those achievements for players who want them" that's also not ideal. We never want to just create a problem that forever means more work for Customer Support. I'm looking at that team right now and they would absolutely TP my desk if that happened.

    SO BASICALLY... the TERA team will keep working on the crystalbind situation. Please consider this a temporary fix for the achievement problem with a better solution coming in the next couple maintenance windows.

    The end goal is to give Elite players all the crystalbind they could ever want or need in a way that isn't tradeable to other players (because that would be OP). A special Elite-only toggle in the options would be pretty sweet but would need more time to have development work done on Bluehole's end. Delivering CCBs in a different way is a more realistic short-term solution though we recognize you guys aren't totally satisfied with getting 4x 6-hour CCBs because of multiple characters/servers.

    Do we replace Gold Boost with CCBs on the Elite bar? If so, do we then move Gold Boost to the consumable box? Gold Boost wasn't a big deal for a while, but in the current gear progression system would that solution be a bummer for people that are thirsty for more gold? Would it put a damper on those leveling brand new accounts? We'd like to hear your thoughts!
  • How many types of crystalbinds do we have already though. Aren't you just blocking up our inventory space. That's also obnoxious. There's no consistency in the type of crystalbinds we get.
  • Make the “solution” not 6 hours but 12. And CCBs that you can stack. EZ GAME
  • counterpointcounterpoint ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Do we replace Gold Boost with CCBs on the Elite bar? If so, do we then move Gold Boost to the consumable box? Gold Boost wasn't a big deal for a while, but in the current gear progression system would that solution be a bummer for people that are thirsty for more gold? Would it put a damper on those leveling brand new accounts? We'd like to hear your thoughts!

    Re: the gold boost, the big problem with is it is that it didn't really evolve with the times when BHS changed the game to mostly go from monsters/bosses dropping gold to Vanguard Requests granting gold upon completion (below the daily cap). Ever since that change (intended to combat K-TERA's botting problem), people have felt that the gold boost was "useless" -- in fairness, it's not entirely useless, but represents a fraction of the gold you earn in game. If we want to continue to have a relevant gold boost, it would be more useful to have a gold boost on vanguard rewards -- but if you do that, probably 2x is OP. Either way, you'd need to go back to Bluehole and talk to them about it. If they could change the gold boost to be an "always-on" status that applied a passive boost to gold earned via any means (but at a smaller rate), I think people would be much more happy with it. The concern would by trying to find the right rate that balances Elite vs. F2P.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Hey all. After reading through everything posted, it looks like you all have a pretty good idea WHY the change is being made. Here's a copy-paste from the patch notes for context:
    To unblock elite status players from gaining the “Imperfect Crystals” and “Ideal Crystals” achievements, we have changed how we deliver Crystalbinding to those players:
    • We have removed Continuous Crystalbind from elite status player accounts.
    • We have added four Complete Veteran Crystalbinds (6 hours) to the daily Elite Consumable Box so players can decide if they want to run with or without Complete Crystalbinds.

    Do we replace Gold Boost with CCBs on the Elite bar? If so, do we then move Gold Boost to the consumable box? Gold Boost wasn't a big deal for a while, but in the current gear progression system would that solution be a bummer for people that are thirsty for more gold? Would it put a damper on those leveling brand new accounts? We'd like to hear your thoughts!

    The most profitable ways to get gold are not affected by the gold boost at all, so right now if you take low level characters into consideration you wont get that much from that perk and when you get to be a level 65 it becomes a perk that you won't ever use in the current state of the game.

    Removing it will be of not cosecuence at all but before removing something pls consider to add something that can be useful for both new and veteran players or low level and end-game characters.

    The perma ccb is a nice qol, is not that important but nice and if you could add it again in someway you can toggle on/off like some skills from classes then it would be ideal.
  • MargaretheMargarethe ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Replacing the current gold boost for a permanent CCB toggle option (similar to noctenium) at the elite bar would be nice, in my opinion.
    Spacecats wrote: »
    Do we replace Gold Boost with CCBs on the Elite bar? If so, do we then move Gold Boost to the consumable box? Gold Boost wasn't a big deal for a while, but in the current gear progression system would that solution be a bummer for people that are thirsty for more gold? Would it put a damper on those leveling brand new accounts? We'd like to hear your thoughts!

    Re: the gold boost, the big problem with is it is that it didn't really evolve with the times when BHS changed the game to mostly go from monsters/bosses dropping gold to Vanguard Requests granting gold upon completion (below the daily cap). Ever since that change (intended to combat K-TERA's botting problem), people have felt that the gold boost was "useless" -- in fairness, it's not entirely useless, but represents a fraction of the gold you earn in game. If we want to continue to have a relevant gold boost, it would be more useful to have a gold boost on vanguard rewards -- but if you do that, probably 2x is OP. Either way, you'd need to go back to Bluehole and talk to them about it. If they could change the gold boost to be an "always-on" status that applied a passive boost to gold earned via any means (but at a smaller rate), I think people would be much more happy with it. The concern would by trying to find the right rate that balances Elite vs. F2P.

    Like the idea.
    Adding a 5-10% gold boost to Vanguard Requests would more than make up for the looting gold boost loss.
    Would also make elite more rewarding.
  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    > @Spacecats said:
    > Hey all. After reading through everything posted, it looks like you all have a pretty good idea WHY the change is being made. Here's a copy-paste from the patch notes for context:
    > To unblock elite status players from gaining the “Imperfect Crystals” and “Ideal Crystals” achievements, we have changed how we deliver Crystalbinding to those players:
    >
    > * We have removed Continuous Crystalbind from elite status player accounts.
    > * We have added four Complete Veteran Crystalbinds (6 hours) to the daily Elite Consumable Box so players can decide if they want to run with or without Complete Crystalbinds.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > The TERA team agrees this isn't the ultimate solution, but we hated the idea that a feature/effect we added was actually blocking people from game content. That's literally one of the worst things we can do, even if it's really minor game content like an achievement. When the perma-crystalbind effect was added, we failed to take those achievements into account and it actually resulted in quite a few Customer Support tickets even if the topic was only brought up in the forums by a few people.
    >
    > For those of you saying "just have CS unlock those achievements for players who want them" that's also not ideal. We never want to just create a problem that forever means more work for Customer Support. I'm looking at that team right now and they would absolutely TP my desk if that happened.
    >
    > SO BASICALLY... the TERA team will keep working on the crystalbind situation. Please consider this a temporary fix for the achievement problem with a better solution coming in the next couple maintenance windows.
    >
    > The end goal is to give Elite players all the crystalbind they could ever want or need in a way that isn't tradeable to other players (because that would be OP). A special Elite-only toggle in the options would be pretty sweet but would need more time to have development work done on Bluehole's end. Delivering CCBs in a different way is a more realistic short-term solution though we recognize you guys aren't totally satisfied with getting 4x 6-hour CCBs because of multiple characters/servers.
    >
    > Do we replace Gold Boost with CCBs on the Elite bar? If so, do we then move Gold Boost to the consumable box? Gold Boost wasn't a big deal for a while, but in the current gear progression system would that solution be a bummer for people that are thirsty for more gold? Would it put a damper on those leveling brand new accounts? We'd like to hear your thoughts!

    The whole benefit of the change was that you don't have to remember to repop it. It's a pretty big inconvenience, especially if you end up losing one or several important crystals during a dungeon (I lost crystals when my elite ran out in a dungeon and I had to relog). CCBs are completely worthless. It's not about the gold.
  • pYRV00E.png
    So that is reg crystalbind (stackable), complete veteran ccb (1hour) - comes from weekly vanguard completion, veteran ccb (stackable type), complete veteran ccb, and complete ccb. 5 types already, now we'll have another with the 6 hour versions, yay...

    Also Spacecats I really hope you know the gold booster only affects DROPPED gold, and 65 content does not drop gold, and has not for multiple patch cycles. If we're talking about levelling, quests gives more gold than dropped, even when it's doubled, and the elite questers gold boost which is built in (unaffected by the clickable gold boost) along with elite double exp already affects that.
    You suggesting it as a solution to people that are hungry for gold is ??? I don't think you'll ever get more than maybe 70g dropped using the gold boost You'd have to be in the level range of the pre-65 dungeon, and have people afk-ing at the start of the dungeon so you would have the full loot buff, but not split gold with them. Enchanting guardian even at the early enchantment levels costs like 3-4x that, so it's just not worth the effort.
  • I have never felt more regret than now for buying something even when I didn't get anything out of lootboxes. Bought 1.33 years of elite during black friday. Looks like we all get a <lump of coal> for Christmas now. :(
  • jongbaejongbae ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I mean now you bring that up. Just change the Gold Boost scroll in the elite bar for a CCB one? Stackable up to 2 times maybe and no need to redeem it from the elite box (eliminating the option of having a 6th CCB slot in our inventory and bank. I don’t know. I just don’t want that in my elite box. I rather just don’t have CCB from elite at all then.

    With that you can make the gold boost just like someone said above “5% - 10% more gold from vanguard”.
  • KarmaTheAlligatorKarmaTheAlligator ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    LesbianVi wrote: »
    Man now open your Elite Consumable Boxes, half of your inventory goes full lols The heck :neutral:

    That's why I'm just stacking my boxes until something good comes out of them.
    Spacecats wrote: »
    The end goal is to give Elite players all the crystalbind they could ever want or need in a way that isn't tradeable to other players

    Spacecats, dood, I have about 400 CCBs chilling in my bank thanks to how easily you can get them from IoD, and that's by playing very little every day. Pretty sure most people (not just Elite) already have all the crystalbind they could ever want or need.
  • Make ccb buff to stack so you can extend it for days of gameplay without having to worry about it expiring ~.~
  • Spacecats wrote: »
    Hey all. After reading through everything posted, it looks like you all have a pretty good idea WHY the change is being made. Here's a copy-paste from the patch notes for context:
    To unblock elite status players from gaining the “Imperfect Crystals” and “Ideal Crystals” achievements, we have changed how we deliver Crystalbinding to those players:
    • We have removed Continuous Crystalbind from elite status player accounts.
    • We have added four Complete Veteran Crystalbinds (6 hours) to the daily Elite Consumable Box so players can decide if they want to run with or without Complete Crystalbinds.

    The TERA team agrees this isn't the ultimate solution, but we hated the idea that a feature/effect we added was actually blocking people from game content. That's literally one of the worst things we can do, even if it's really minor game content like an achievement. When the perma-crystalbind effect was added, we failed to take those achievements into account and it actually resulted in quite a few Customer Support tickets even if the topic was only brought up in the forums by a few people.

    For those of you saying "just have CS unlock those achievements for players who want them" that's also not ideal. We never want to just create a problem that forever means more work for Customer Support. I'm looking at that team right now and they would absolutely TP my desk if that happened.

    SO BASICALLY... the TERA team will keep working on the crystalbind situation. Please consider this a temporary fix for the achievement problem with a better solution coming in the next couple maintenance windows.

    The end goal is to give Elite players all the crystalbind they could ever want or need in a way that isn't tradeable to other players (because that would be OP). A special Elite-only toggle in the options would be pretty sweet but would need more time to have development work done on Bluehole's end. Delivering CCBs in a different way is a more realistic short-term solution though we recognize you guys aren't totally satisfied with getting 4x 6-hour CCBs because of multiple characters/servers.

    Do we replace Gold Boost with CCBs on the Elite bar? If so, do we then move Gold Boost to the consumable box? Gold Boost wasn't a big deal for a while, but in the current gear progression system would that solution be a bummer for people that are thirsty for more gold? Would it put a damper on those leveling brand new accounts? We'd like to hear your thoughts!

    A toggle on the bar sounds good.

    Part of what's so appealing about Cont CCB is never having to THINK about CCB. And also not having to look at the indicator. I am however willing to give those two things up if it becomes as easy as the battle solution.

    Side note: the real insult here is that the veteran CCB stops with a crystal break. Meaning it needs to be reapplied EVERY TIME YOU DIE, just in case. This is what's so terrible. We go from never having to think about it to something that has to be reapplied mid-fight every time you res.

    Hunter's gold boost? Where can you even use it? BAMs? No. Dungeons? No. Doesn't affect turn-ins. What drops gold anywhere, except during leveling? SO...tens of gold, and only in dungeons. You get potentially far more from the always-on Questor's gold boost while leveling.

    I also suggest you send mail to every character in the game notifying everyone. Or there are going to be a lot of clueless people who logged in and started playing after the patch, and....well.
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