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Permanent Crystal Bind Being Removed...[Discussion]

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  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    P67R9XWCLY wrote: »
    yet, another stupid change they made to the game

    no it wasn't a change to the game, it was like that. players just got used to it.

    well, say all you want, but if you can't manage time after all these time playing Tera, well you don't get to complain. I agree the 3 hours CCB is complete boohoo, but I believe it shouldn't have changed in the 1st place, Using CCB was part of playing the game and time management.
  • c0gc0g ✭✭
    edited December 2017
    I don't understand at the end of the day why we are changing this for the select few that NEEDED this changed immediately if we are being told by white knight counterpoint here that we should wait and have a fix made by BHS why the majority? Yea I know the other side of the coin "how do you know its majority," really it doesn't matter with this many people annoyed raging or just plain pissed at this change why did they feel it was necessary to change this? Last time I checked before this was changed I never once saw a thread raging or even asking for this change, but apparently, the few people that sent in tickets or sent personal messages are obviously more important to keep as customers and fix than the huge amount of people influenced negatively by this.

    Not to mention every single time I message a GM asking for a minor fix or change or suggesting a flat out better system this is never done even when I see lots of people asking for it, so why are they focusing on small [filtered] fixes that don't matter but flat out ignore other changes that would ACTUALLY IMPROVE THE GAME?


    So, just change it back give us perm CCBs again and those who need their precious 20 points can just "wait for a fix from BHS and hope it comes eventually," cause really those 20 points aren't even needed to hit new laurels.

    I'm not too sure about the white knight part, my thoughts are counterpoint does seem to muster his best to speak with as much reason he can while many of us including myself prefer to shoot first talk later (though that ain't bad btw, it just goes to show how strongly we feel and want the best for the game). The rest of the things you've said - I completely agree.

    Look at how they reacted to their own recent folly, especially one that appeared to be of (undue) advantage to a good number (but not all) players who were allowed to open the Elin Gunner Item Claim boxes with just any leveled toon - they were so quick to remedy the fault on their part, and not let yet more players take undue advantage of it, that they called for an URGENT MAINTENANCE and got it FIXED/CORRECTED ASAP so only levelled Elin gunners can rightly benefit from those boxes.

    Do we see ANY ACTUAL SENSE OF URGENCY on their part when it comes to things that TRULY MATTER TO PLAYERS? Maybe some of you can quote an instance or two, but do those account for their LARGELY LACKADAISICAL attitude towards what many if not most players ask for? Some of us wanted simple things like a daily vanguard counter for the 16 dailies we do (not all of us do, I concur), but for those who asked it, do you hear even a word that they would do anything about it? Well, I didn't hear $hlt. Even if this is up to BHS, let us know that you hear us, but nay... zilch. Yep, there are way more examples than this, but you guys get the general idea - WHERE AN ELEMENT EXISTS THAT WOULD UNDULY BENEFIT PLAYERS, THEY'RE QUICK TO ACT ON IT, BUT WHERE AN ELEMENT EXISTS THAT COMES AT A DISADVANTAGE TO PLAYERS, THEY DON'T LOOK LIKE THEY REALLY GIVE A RAT'S A$$ ABOUT MAKING GOOD FOR THE PLAYERS' BENEFIT. EITHER THAT, OR THEY TAKE AN INFINITELY LONG TIME TO ACT ON IT.

    Right now, a PERMANENT CCB is what manyyyyyyy players want, EME. Are you guys hearing it already? A SPECIFIC response on this please? And not something about telling us what isn't good for us is good for us. Tyvm.
  • Maybe we should set the bar higher for elite than a permanent crystal bind that's easily free in game. There are 18 pages of complaints about an elite perk that's free in game. I liked the perma ccb too, but if it was ccb or something more meaningful for my money, I'd gladly lose the perma ccb for brining the gem bag back.

    @Spacecats "Do we replace Gold Boost with CCBs on the Elite bar?"

    NO man, just NO. What is going on with the desire to remove stuff? If something is not worth it FIX IT to make it valuable don't remove it. If you have to remove something to replace it with something MORE VALUABLE then say so up front and in advance.

    But, just for schnitz n giggles, how about, make the gold boost viable/valuable, AND fix the perma ccb? What would that be like? Is that something you might be interested in? Does that tickle your fancy? You know, maybe on a Thursday, or a rainy weekend night right when the clouds break and the moon is just right? you know what i'm talkin about...
  • edited December 2017
    Meshak wrote: »
    NO man, just NO. What is going on with the desire to remove stuff? If something is not worth it FIX IT to make it valuable don't remove it. If you have to remove something to replace it with something MORE VALUABLE then say so up front and in advance.
    Just FWIW, at the time they were worried that they would have to remove an item from the bar to put the CCB there (because having the CCB on the bar was a better solution than having it be inside the daily consumable box). It turns out that wasn't an issue and they could simply add it to the bar, with no need to remove anything. That was the only reason for that question at the time.

    (And making the gold boost more useful is obviously a good idea, but yet another that relies on BHS to do.)
  • When we're asking for the Permanent CCB effect, perhaps it's not so much about getting a missing feature back than it is about getting an indication that EME genuinely bothers to hear us out. If EME gets what majority players are saying here and return us the Perm CCB, it would mean a lot to indicate they are listening to what we say and acting on them. Right now, it's an uphill task for them to show that they bother.

    Btw, EME, if you do hear what we say and act on those little things we ask, it is not a sign of weakness or bowing to pressure in any way, but just a simple sign that you care.
  • If the achievement is a problem why you dont ask BHS to get rid of it?
  • LesbianViLesbianVi ✭✭✭✭✭
    JasonLucas wrote: »
    If the achievement is a problem why you dont ask BHS to get rid of it?

    If BHS was doing things right we wouldn't be talking about CCB now, there is a reason forums is more active than game, nothing to do there lol
  • c0g wrote: »
    It is clear EME will not make any further changes unless perhaps we pile them with NEW FEEDBACK. Let's not deviate from the subject any further. If any of you want the Perm CCB back bad enough for the foreseeable future, submit your ticket already, don't let other ideas sidetrack you.

    Here's mine:

    HVLX4Vz.jpg

    And here's the same in text form (for those too lazy to write a new ticket all over again and just wish to copy and paste):

    Dear Support

    As an Elite player, I am absolutely disappointed that you guys have decided to remove the Permanent CCB feature from the Elite bar just so "To unblock elite status players from gaining the “Imperfect Crystals” and “Ideal Crystals” achievements", that I understand is a "100% direct result of player feedback" previously, as Spacecats has explained.

    The reason why we asked for the Permanent CCB feature for Elite status is precisely so we do not have to constantly mind or worry if the CCB effect has been activated while we are in combat. Despite numerous players sounding this out in the forums (https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/19588/permanent-crystal-bind-being-removed-discussion/p1), EME has FAILED TO UNDERSTAND what elite status players really want. It is not free CCB we are asking, NO and DO NOT mistake us for this, but a permanent feature just so elite players need not ever think about whether the CCB effect is on whenever they go into a fight.

    You guys have kindly gave us this feature for the past month, and we have been so appreciative of it, but only for it to be replaced by a temporary CCB effect that has to be activated every X hours. This is as good as not putting any CCB feature on the Elite bar at all. Players will still have to remind themselves to activate the CCB effect every so often, which defeats the entire purpose to begin with.

    In the same way you have so removed the Permanent CB effect which is a "100% direct result of player feedback", I will now submit my feedback to ask for a win-win solution for both types of elite users:

    PLEASE INTRODUCE A TOGGLE ON/OFF CCB FEATURE (as suggested here https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/comment/195300/#Comment_195300) IN THE ELITE BAR, AND ONE THAT DOESN'T CHANGE EVEN IF THE PLAYER LOGS OFF, UNTIL THE PLAYER DECIDES TO TOGGLE THE OPTION.

    This should not be a difficult feature to implement. It would surely satisfy elite players seeking the achievements concerned, as well as the larger elite player base who do not wish to ever mind if the CCB effect has been activated.

    Thank you.



    Oh btw, Support has replied as follows. At least it's not some defensive excuse they're giving. If feedback is what's needed, give it.

    4ASL5FU.jpg
  • why are elite CCBs only 3 hours ? and not 12 like the common ones.
    u gave us 24 three hour ccbs instead of just 6 twelve hour ones.
    gg.
  • TewiiTewii ✭✭✭
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    I guess im going back to being a Free to play and use the cheap cheap 12 hour CCB's... i mean... who needs Elite anyway when you have 10 lvl65's that can run all dungeons and farm all day!... am i right???

    Even in your intention to make a joke this is not so wrong about current state on Elite.

    Even with the perma CCB it lacks something that can be called worth, aside from the "no fees" to put your stuff on broker everything else has no real impact.

    You can get enought prime battle solutions for your characters and your won't run out of them.

    You can get enought ccb for you to not worry for generations about your crystals breaking.

    Free reset scrolls, they are really handy for those with few characters but for someone like you or several others this has almost no value at all.

    Crafter's cure potion is nice but you can do enought gold to buy one from broker in 5 minutes, so again this is not so valuable at all.

    Strong canephora and bravery, we already have ways to get them from game, you can run 4 star dungeons and use the scales to get more, you will need about 20 minutes to get enought scales to trade for 1 strong canephora and bravery, so again you dont have need of this at all.

    Travel journal and Village atlas are not needed, maybe if Travel journal could add more then 5 places (maybe 15) in it could be worth to get, travel journal because rather useless with the vanguard window.

    Gold hunter boost is an outdated perk that doesn't help that much and is not worth elite costs.

    Elite Gift Box usually gives you items that you don't need but you have a chance to get a pet, strongbox key and other stuff. This could be worth elite if you don't have a pet, otherwise is not that apealing.

    Flying mount, you get one free at level 65 and you can get an Iron Dragon Free just playing the game, most people I know got their dragon in a couple of months.

    Exp boost. Not a great perk when you can level up a character in less than 14 hours in an account without elite and level 0 on emporium.

    So far the only thing I see worth is the no fee to use broker for you to sell stuff because you will save a good amount of gold this way.

    The perma ccb is only a minor qol that adds no value at all to Elite, its just added to a list of perks that are not needed and give you nothing worth the money you spend on it.

    Once again because you don't understand.

    Just because you look at the value of something and deem it to be, for you, worthless, doesn't mean it's worthless for other people.

    Be considerate.
  • TWMagimayTWMagimay ✭✭✭✭✭
    You (like many others) already decided that there could not conceivably be any possible good reason except for stupidity or utter incompetence anyway. Trying to explain the issues from their point of view to have an actual discussion about it (which is all I've been trying to do) is meaningless.

    That's because your explanation is basically "stupidity", just with more words. We understand the "good reason", we just think it's a stupid reason. Based on what you've said so far:
    1. "We lived without it for 5 years, it's no biggie" : And those avid achievement hunters lived without that achievement for 5 years as well. Unless they also happen to have all other achievements done on their elin gunner, they don't actually have an issue.
    2. "They don't want people to be cut off from content" : What about all those legacy achievements that weren't deleted? For a completionist(which is what somebody wanting that achievement is), the mere existence of the looong list of achievements that can't be obtained is no different from these two and these two don't even show up on the list so it's even less of an OCD trigger.
    3. "They couldn't just tell people to cancel their elite, that's bad business" : Silence is golden. They didn't have to say -anything- at all. If they really wanted to be nice, they could've said that if players chose to discontinue their special discount elite in order to get these very important achievements, they'd reinstate said special discount once the achievements were obtained(which, according to another post in this topic is something they do).
    4. "They can't give tradeable ones because that'd be OP" : That's the point where you lost the argument, in case you are wondering. The moment those words came out of Spacecat's keyboard, the genuine lack of understanding of the game became far too apparent for any cover-up to work.

    Your(and their) arguments all boil down to "they did their best, guys" the same way you look at the giraffe-like painting of a horse a 3 year old drew and say "awww, it's so good, I know you did your best".
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tewii wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    I guess im going back to being a Free to play and use the cheap cheap 12 hour CCB's... i mean... who needs Elite anyway when you have 10 lvl65's that can run all dungeons and farm all day!... am i right???

    Even in your intention to make a joke this is not so wrong about current state on Elite.

    Even with the perma CCB it lacks something that can be called worth, aside from the "no fees" to put your stuff on broker everything else has no real impact.

    You can get enought prime battle solutions for your characters and your won't run out of them.

    You can get enought ccb for you to not worry for generations about your crystals breaking.

    Free reset scrolls, they are really handy for those with few characters but for someone like you or several others this has almost no value at all.

    Crafter's cure potion is nice but you can do enought gold to buy one from broker in 5 minutes, so again this is not so valuable at all.

    Strong canephora and bravery, we already have ways to get them from game, you can run 4 star dungeons and use the scales to get more, you will need about 20 minutes to get enought scales to trade for 1 strong canephora and bravery, so again you dont have need of this at all.

    Travel journal and Village atlas are not needed, maybe if Travel journal could add more then 5 places (maybe 15) in it could be worth to get, travel journal because rather useless with the vanguard window.

    Gold hunter boost is an outdated perk that doesn't help that much and is not worth elite costs.

    Elite Gift Box usually gives you items that you don't need but you have a chance to get a pet, strongbox key and other stuff. This could be worth elite if you don't have a pet, otherwise is not that apealing.

    Flying mount, you get one free at level 65 and you can get an Iron Dragon Free just playing the game, most people I know got their dragon in a couple of months.

    Exp boost. Not a great perk when you can level up a character in less than 14 hours in an account without elite and level 0 on emporium.

    So far the only thing I see worth is the no fee to use broker for you to sell stuff because you will save a good amount of gold this way.

    The perma ccb is only a minor qol that adds no value at all to Elite, its just added to a list of perks that are not needed and give you nothing worth the money you spend on it.

    Once again because you don't understand.

    Just because you look at the value of something and deem it to be, for you, worthless, doesn't mean it's worthless for other people.

    Be considerate.

    That is my opinion and I think you only want to look things from your own stand point because when you complain about something being worthless then no matter if that thing is worth for other people.

    Read again these kinds of post you made where you make a good aproach and compare it with other post you already done in the past to see the diference in them.

    In this case, about the perma ccb being removed reaction, it is really an over reaction in forums. If you bother for a perk that you need to activate every 12 hours because you can forget about its lenght and lost it on battle, there you have also the effect of the nostrum one that is even more important to lose in battle because it will impact the battle inmediatly after you lose its effect and not until you die again.

    I think you miss again what I am saying, I concur that the perma ccb is a nice perk but is not a perk with a value to make worth elite. I concur that elite is lacking of elements and removing a perk even if is a small perk make its worth less for many people. I concur that perma ccb is more important than 20 points from 2 achievements that only promotes something you should avoid in the game. I concur that EME made a desicion based on feedback from a probable minority in the game but we don't have elements to prove they are the minority.

    What I am pointing here is that many people are over reaction about this perk and instead of making suggestions about what could be better they only got in the "I will disregard others forums ideas and suggestions that don't apeal my interest to attack eme for their incompetence since only those who thinks like me are in the right and those who don't are only white knight and don't deserve space in this thread because their opinion is worthless".

    So you can decide for first time if you can "Be considerated" and acknowlegde diferent ideas about this issue.
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    The perma CCB was a small QoL, something that could be done with the everful nostrum. Removing it won't affect you at all since there are so easy to get, however removing that perk is not the way to solve things.

    As many have said 20 points for achievements are not worth to get rid of a QoL perk.
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    The perma ccb is a nice qol, is not that important but nice and if you could add it again in someway you can toggle on/off like some skills from classes then it would be ideal.
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    The perma ccb is not even a reason to buy elite.

    Is just a minor QoL that feeds our laziness, nothing more, nothing to make a fuzz over it but if they can give it back in a better way then it will be welcome.

    Those were part of my first 3 post in this thread, I am pretty sure that you didn't even bother to read them, you will see that I am not against the idea to bring it back and that I concur with those who are upset about its removal, but not about the reactions from others.

    If you really would care enought at this time you will see people from the old forums how anything that can bring a complain they don't even give an idea of a good solution, they only want to make a post insulting EME staff, being the old crew or the new, and if anyone tell them their opinion about the issue and is not the same as them they will be white knights, morons, stupids, idiots and the list go on.

    I wonder why you as a PC member dont step on to calm down those people but step on to confront some one you have a personal grundge, oh wait, of course you will prefer to step to confront the one you have a persoanl grundge because you don't have anything of value to say in the post because you already contradicted yourself

    Once again because you don't understand.

    Just because you look at the value of something and deem it to be, for you, worthless, doesn't mean it's worthless for other people.

    Be considerate.
    Tewii wrote: »
    Margarethe wrote: »
    The current system is hindering achievement hunters in case they're elite.
    This required to be removed or changed.
    .

    Or just don't renew your elite. Hello? Get up to speed, would you?
    Tewii wrote: »
    OK, guys? I'm not talking about the perm CCB being removed here (I, too, liked my perm CCB), I'm making fun of the "solution" used to get around that, because it's ridiculous.

    I completely agree that they shouldn't have removed the perm CCB just for that, for the record.

    Then if they care about the achievement that much, they should value the effort they went through to cancel their sub and do their achievement farm by using said solution more than the points themselves. Makes those ~20 worthless points~ that much more valuable!

    Ex
    Dee

    You already steped in this forum in the page 2 and 3 and you made a post calling worthless something that have worth for other people, so where are you putting on practice your words?
  • Naru2008Naru2008 ✭✭✭✭
    done... sent the ticket to as i agree with you!

    We dont need the achievement... we need the peace of mind Continuous CCB gives us... not having to wory whether we going to loose our crystals or not, thats what we want!

    I dont care about free CCB... 12 hour CCB is a dime a dozen from IOD BAM's... I have so many of them its not even funny... what i care about is having peace of mind not having to wory about whether im going to loose my crystals or not!

    As we have discussed previously... you dont even need those 20 points to achieve Champion Laurel... so why have that achievement in the first place... just remove it and be done with it!

    Regards, Z

    DO NOT send in support tickets and waste GMs times and increase legitimate user's times for issues to give feedback simply because you are upset.
  • Naru2008 wrote: »
    DO NOT send in support tickets and waste GMs times and increase legitimate user's times for issues to give feedback simply because you are upset.

    Then perhaps you know of a more direct way of contacting the right people that does not involve submitting a support ticket? I sure don't. Ticket submitted.
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