Why dont we have the talent systerm?

135

Comments

  • TaldekTaldek ✭✭
    edited January 2018

    Even with the grinding now, there's an eventual easing/reset of the process that makes it possible to catch up, and that's essential to all vertical progression MMOs. This is why I can't understand how BHS thought it was a good idea to develop the talent system in the first place. I don't think we should want the system as is, but just keep pushing for the resulting balance changes to be delivered in another way (glyphs, buffs, etc.).

    With the change to the gearing system its not so much a reset anymore. Their plan moving forward is just to continue adding tiers of gear and dungeons. Just added the new set in korea upgrading from stormcry that only goes to +0 currently but itll go up eventually. They will just keep adding steps to the ladder instead of reseting to 3 gear sets per season.

    As for alternatives to talents, the best option would be turning the big talents into passives. There is still a difference because of all the talents as a whole but the gap is much, much smaller. Problem is the only reason they did it for slayer is because their bread and butter was much further down the road compared to other classes with talents. The fact that we get it as a result is just by chance. Easier to push for the system as a whole considering its in every regions client already, 99% translated and all.
  • edited January 2018
    Taldek wrote: »

    Even with the grinding now, there's an eventual easing/reset of the process that makes it possible to catch up, and that's essential to all vertical progression MMOs. This is why I can't understand how BHS thought it was a good idea to develop the talent system in the first place. I don't think we should want the system as is, but just keep pushing for the resulting balance changes to be delivered in another way (glyphs, buffs, etc.).

    With the change to the gearing system its not so much a reset anymore. Their plan moving forward is just to continue adding tiers of gear and dungeons. Just added the new set in korea upgrading from stormcry that only goes to +0 currently but itll go up eventually. They will just keep adding steps to the ladder instead of reseting to 3 gear sets per season.

    But they will also, eventually, ease the earlier steps as well. (They already started doing this in K-TERA by increasing the supply of gold, etc.) That way people catching up won't have a progressively taller ladder to climb. All they've really done is make it so that there's always a linear upgrade path, which some other vertical progression MMOs also do. So it's not really all that different in practice, just in the method.
  • ElinLove wrote: »
    hey, yo, that "telling BHS" is what...

    HAS BEEN IGNORED FOR ALL THOSE YEARS.

    I don't know if you're new here or if you just well, forgot this part but our voices here being heard is as unlikely as you shouting all the way to South Korea, in English, and them listening to you and taking that opinion into count.

    No that's the point, anything we say isn't going to get any traction if enmasse doesn't bring it up. We all know how out of touch our representatives are with the community base.
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    Satchin wrote: »
    ElinLove wrote: »
    hey, yo, that "telling BHS" is what...

    HAS BEEN IGNORED FOR ALL THOSE YEARS.

    I don't know if you're new here or if you just well, forgot this part but our voices here being heard is as unlikely as you shouting all the way to South Korea, in English, and them listening to you and taking that opinion into count.

    No that's the point, anything we say isn't going to get any traction if enmasse doesn't bring it up. We all know how out of touch our representatives are with the community base.

    It doesn't matter if EME brings it up, anything that doesn't align with what BHS wants will simply be ignored/discarded. Example being the dragon mounts. EME's sole purpose is selling the game and forwarding feedback. The rest is up to BHS, and they have the right to ignore feedback as it is their product.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    Satchin wrote: »
    ElinLove wrote: »
    hey, yo, that "telling BHS" is what...

    HAS BEEN IGNORED FOR ALL THOSE YEARS.

    I don't know if you're new here or if you just well, forgot this part but our voices here being heard is as unlikely as you shouting all the way to South Korea, in English, and them listening to you and taking that opinion into count.

    No that's the point, anything we say isn't going to get any traction if enmasse doesn't bring it up. We all know how out of touch our representatives are with the community base.

    I likely worded it very badly: I mean that: BHS has been ignoring the feedback all along.
    They're just THAT stubborn. Heck they've done PUBG with the SAME problems as TERA, how stubborn can you be to do the same mistake twice? Answer: so stubborn that you ignore a huge market entirely. That's us by the way.

    I cannot believe that En Masse has been neglecting the forwarding of our concerns for so long (tho I can agree they've been terrible lately), if it was their own choice to not ask for it, they would have told us already with all the frills that it's not good for our region because of this and that.
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    I highly doubt that EME has a problem activating talents on their own, it is just that BHS didn't give the greenlight and left it disabled.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    ElinLove wrote: »
    Satchin wrote: »
    ElinLove wrote: »
    hey, yo, that "telling BHS" is what...

    HAS BEEN IGNORED FOR ALL THOSE YEARS.

    I don't know if you're new here or if you just well, forgot this part but our voices here being heard is as unlikely as you shouting all the way to South Korea, in English, and them listening to you and taking that opinion into count.

    No that's the point, anything we say isn't going to get any traction if enmasse doesn't bring it up. We all know how out of touch our representatives are with the community base.

    I likely worded it very badly: I mean that: BHS has been ignoring the feedback all along.
    They're just THAT stubborn. Heck they've done PUBG with the SAME problems as TERA, how stubborn can you be to do the same mistake twice? Answer: so stubborn that you ignore a huge market entirely. That's us by the way.

    I cannot believe that En Masse has been neglecting the forwarding of our concerns for so long (tho I can agree they've been terrible lately), if it was their own choice to not ask for it, they would have told us already with all the frills that it's not good for our region because of this and that.

    I bet A:IR will have the same issues as TERA and PUBG.
  • canikizucanikizu ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    You CAN'T simply activate whatever you want. That's not how programming works. Of course when BHS ship the game, they ship the talent system also because it's part of the software. There are no sane developers that remove part of their codes off and develop different versions of the same game for 2 different regions. That's a developer's nightmare. That is why we still have all the other features, such as Baldera, old IOD, old dungeons (DS, CW, FoK, etc you name it), Stamina, etc. Those features are still in the game, they are just hidden and deactivated and there's no way to turn them on without touching codes. So it's not a surprise that you can find Talent system in our package version.

    Talent system is only available in KTera, no matter how much whining we NA want. Other regions, such as EU, CH, TW, RU, JP don't have it either, and yet you don't see them whining as much. Sure we have classes that UP because they don't have talents, but even with talents, you will still have classes that underpower anyway, there're always classes that are weaker than other regardless.

    Also, Talent grinding isn't like gear xp grinding. It's more like Tera Reward+XP grinding. It's server-wide. You can't just finish your VG quests and get talent xp from there. You literally have to go out and kill bams, each bams give xp. So you have to afk/macro at IoD bams to farm daily. IIRC when the system just came out, somebody said if you want to get 150 level of talents from VG alone, you have to farm the same amount of VG quests it take to level up your Tera Reward from Tier 0 to Tier 8, which is extremely grindy.

    Let's face it, we don't want Talent system, we want some specific skills it gives, but please don't make it sound like we want that system. Even when we have those skills, there will be classes that underpowered and there will be still people whining about balances.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    canikizu wrote: »
    [...]
    Let's face it, we don't want Talent system, we want some specific skills it gives, but please don't make it sound like we want that system. Even when we have those skills, there will be classes that underpowered and there will be still people whining about balances.

    I'm with you on this one: all we actually want, is the balancing that talents give. Not the downsides/grind. We basically want the best of both world, and they love giving us the middle finger instead.
    canikizu wrote: »
    You CAN'T simply activate whatever you want. That's not how programming works. Of course when BHS ship the game, they ship the talent system also because it's part of the software. There are no sane developers that remove part of their codes off and develop different versions of the same game for 2 different regions. That's a developer's nightmare. That is why we still have all the other features, such as Baldera, old IOD, old dungeons (DS, CW, FoK, etc you name it), Stamina, etc. Those features are still in the game, they are just hidden and deactivated and there's no way to turn them on without touching codes. So it's not a surprise that you can find Talent system in our package version.
    [...]

    Granted, properly developed code can be worked in parts individually, and downright files deleted when not needed: the so called ravioli code. TERA is closer to spaghetti code or downright big ball of mud (yes, all of those are programming therms if you guys are curious). It's a ton of crap mixed up entangled and added up from other developers in whatever way it kinda worked with brute force. If it was properly coded in modules, we could just have one module that connects them all (or multiple) that when disabled talents, the file can be deleted as well, same with older dungeons and IOD, so we don't keep those friggen' 42.5GB. Boy I remember when it was 30...

    The activation of it tho is likely hard-coded off on our version and unfinished. If it was forced on it would likely not work anyway. There's no brute force coding EME could do in servers to add it, and likely BHS wouldn't allow anyway. The later, is one of the biggest issues with the game's direction in my view.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    canikizu wrote: »
    You CAN'T simply activate whatever you want. That's not how programming works. Of course when BHS ship the game, they ship the talent system also because it's part of the software. There are no sane developers that remove part of their codes off and develop different versions of the same game for 2 different regions. That's a developer's nightmare. That is why we still have all the other features, such as Baldera, old IOD, old dungeons (DS, CW, FoK, etc you name it), Stamina, etc. Those features are still in the game, they are just hidden and deactivated and there's no way to turn them on without touching codes. So it's not a surprise that you can find Talent system in our package version.

    Talent system is only available in KTera, no matter how much whining we NA want. Other regions, such as EU, CH, TW, RU, JP don't have it either, and yet you don't see them whining as much. Sure we have classes that UP because they don't have talents, but even with talents, you will still have classes that underpower anyway, there're always classes that are weaker than other regardless.

    Also, Talent grinding isn't like gear xp grinding. It's more like Tera Reward+XP grinding. It's server-wide. You can't just finish your VG quests and get talent xp from there. You literally have to go out and kill bams, each bams give xp. So you have to afk/macro at IoD bams to farm daily. IIRC when the system just came out, somebody said if you want to get 150 level of talents from VG alone, you have to farm the same amount of VG quests it take to level up your Tera Reward from Tier 0 to Tier 8, which is extremely grindy.

    Let's face it, we don't want Talent system, we want some specific skills it gives, but please don't make it sound like we want that system. Even when we have those skills, there will be classes that underpowered and there will be still people whining about balances.

    J-Tera is happy as long they get new Elin costumes.

    We are not them... well, I am also happy with new Elin costumes.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    canikizu wrote: »
    You CAN'T simply activate whatever you want. That's not how programming works. Of course when BHS ship the game, they ship the talent system also because it's part of the software. There are no sane developers that remove part of their codes off and develop different versions of the same game for 2 different regions. That's a developer's nightmare. That is why we still have all the other features, such as Baldera, old IOD, old dungeons (DS, CW, FoK, etc you name it), Stamina, etc. Those features are still in the game, they are just hidden and deactivated and there's no way to turn them on without touching codes. So it's not a surprise that you can find Talent system in our package version.

    Talent system is only available in KTera, no matter how much whining we NA want. Other regions, such as EU, CH, TW, RU, JP don't have it either, and yet you don't see them whining as much. Sure we have classes that UP because they don't have talents, but even with talents, you will still have classes that underpower anyway, there're always classes that are weaker than other regardless.

    Also, Talent grinding isn't like gear xp grinding. It's more like Tera Reward+XP grinding. It's server-wide. You can't just finish your VG quests and get talent xp from there. You literally have to go out and kill bams, each bams give xp. So you have to afk/macro at IoD bams to farm daily. IIRC when the system just came out, somebody said if you want to get 150 level of talents from VG alone, you have to farm the same amount of VG quests it take to level up your Tera Reward from Tier 0 to Tier 8, which is extremely grindy.

    Let's face it, we don't want Talent system, we want some specific skills it gives, but please don't make it sound like we want that system. Even when we have those skills, there will be classes that underpowered and there will be still people whining about balances.

    J-Tera is happy as long they get new Elin costumes.

    We are not them... well, I am also happy with new Elin costumes.

    ~timidly raises hand "me too"~

    Well can't really blame them for focusing on costumes, heck I want them every time I see a cute new one, in fact it was Elins that invited me over to this game and made me stay. If I had to put up with playing males or stereotypical "hot girl A" I would have quit long ago.

    The issue is not them putting out more costumes, but not putting out/fixing anything else
  • I wasn't ever suggesting EME just flip the switch or that they even could, i know Bluehole left part of its code out on purpose and it would need to come from them. I went out of my way to only yell at Bluehole because they are the gate keepers. Their excuses for not bringing it are weak and easily dismantled. The problem is they just dont care. My hope is that someone from EME would read any of this and possibly push for SOMETHING, be it the talents, passives, a poll on whats wanted, ANYTHING. Otherwise i woulda just typed this all into screamintothevoid.com/
  • Can we juat quit complaining about talents and accept that it's ktera only? It's the same as complaining about endgame, it's not going to get anyone anywhere, let's focus on what's in front of us and make the best of our current situation.
  • PagesPages ✭✭✭✭
    None of us want the "grind" from the talent system but we all do want the talents because they make classes better. Content is developed around talents. Content is harder for our region because we don't have talents, and classes in our region are weaker because they don't have talents--borderline unplayable (Ninja, Slayer).

    If other classes could get the "Slayer" treatment and get talents turned into passives, it would alleviate the issue.
    If every class could get the "Power" bonus from talents, it would alleviate the issue.
    If both healing classes could get the Crit Resist debuff from talents, it would alleviate the issue.

    These are things that we do not have because we do not have the talent system. All we want is for it to be removed from KTERA and for them to stop balancing around it, effectively making other regions play a debilitated version of TERA.
  • What EME could try to do is push for a server wide buff, like UHFTT, that gives us the base bonuses from talents (+23 power, +23 endurance) and perhaps an additional effect to account for the other talent buffs such as extra crit. factor, atk. speed, or cdr.
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