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Question regarding Damage Meters.

12346

Comments

  • ObsObs ✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    clfarron4 wrote: »
    MistyTera wrote: »
    I feel you all. Really I'm telling that essential mana is enough to help you not think about DPS meter for yourself and get banned by using it.

    What part of "DPS meters and the data they produce are used by the writers of the Essential Mana guides to help them make informed decisions on what is optimal." did you miss?

    A prime example of this is Daniel's Lancer Guide. Intuition would say that Lancers should stack as much crit to get more crits to do more DPS, but his experience with Lancer on this patch says otherwise. How do you think Daniel came to that conclusion? And how do you think players could test this for themselves?

    But truth is new/begginer players should priorityze on agro and getting a little bit skilled on their rotations before building as a guide like he tells you to build.

    There is not a single road to follow to reach the same outcome and if you take the rougher patch if can backslash at you.

    That's why even he put "Daniel’s Advanced Min-Max Lancer Guide" on his tittle.

    It is a guide for those who reach a certain level of skill and looks to reach further improvements on the class.

    Skill level wouldn't really change gear/stat prioritization unless you're drastically playing the class differently. If a build/rotation does more DPS on average than another build/rotation, then it will likely help the new player improve their DPS and/or aggro.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    Obs wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    clfarron4 wrote: »
    MistyTera wrote: »
    I feel you all. Really I'm telling that essential mana is enough to help you not think about DPS meter for yourself and get banned by using it.

    What part of "DPS meters and the data they produce are used by the writers of the Essential Mana guides to help them make informed decisions on what is optimal." did you miss?

    A prime example of this is Daniel's Lancer Guide. Intuition would say that Lancers should stack as much crit to get more crits to do more DPS, but his experience with Lancer on this patch says otherwise. How do you think Daniel came to that conclusion? And how do you think players could test this for themselves?

    But truth is new/begginer players should priorityze on agro and getting a little bit skilled on their rotations before building as a guide like he tells you to build.

    There is not a single road to follow to reach the same outcome and if you take the rougher patch if can backslash at you.

    That's why even he put "Daniel’s Advanced Min-Max Lancer Guide" on his tittle.

    It is a guide for those who reach a certain level of skill and looks to reach further improvements on the class.

    Skill level wouldn't really change gear/stat prioritization unless you're drastically playing the class differently. If a build/rotation does more DPS on average than another build/rotation, then it will likely help the new player improve their DPS and/or aggro.

    It will not if trying to follow this guide lead him to fail horrible in runs and then being black listed a by certain players, something you alreayd are aware that happens.

    Also, this build for Lancer in this guide is for low ping lancers, it would work better for a new/begginer and even a high ping player with an agrro crystal instead of one pounding and for etchings using treatenigh tier 2 until he reaches a level where he can change little by little agro for damage/crit stats.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    AxeI wrote: »
    Some people have strayed so far from the main point that it doesn't even make sense to keep arguing.

    It was a side discussion about DPS meters since page 1. OP asked if it's allowable, and got an answer in page 1. The rest is "You're a complete idiot who deserves to get tortured to death for disagreeing with my almighty points!" from all sides, granted after ~5 proper comments with valid points on pro/against it.

    Heck most of it was if it was helpful or not
  • PartyblastPartyblast ✭✭✭✭
    MistyTera wrote: »
    So now you know why EME/BHS forbids the use of DPS meters.

    Except your wrong, BHS allows meter usage and are allowing other regions to implement their own to combat the exact stupidity you're spewing out in long painful to read posts. EmE pulls the whole "don't be a [filtered] and harass people with it" stance, even after the whole third-party fiasco. They even allow you to report people using it: just see that valk that got banned for doing 11m/s in KC, the meter was posted by SOMEONE NOT BANNED and it instigated the investigation, however the ban was not because they used meter.
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    The thread derailed so much lmao.

    But seriously using a DPS meter in any game (not just Tera) will be subject to different opinions by the community. Min-maxers LOVE DPS meters because they can confirm their testing. Casual players hate DPS meters because it tends to attack them because abusers tend to call them out for low dps.

    Every guide in Essential Mana is backed up by hundreds and thousands of runs logged by DPS meters to both verify that it is indeed the best way to play. It does NOT remove the need, it is in fact the complete opposite, where said meter is optimally the best way to tell if there are ways to actually do better than the status quo or if you are underperforming.

    I wouldn’t trust MistyTera’s statements about Meters being cheats because it actually does no modifications and does not alter the way you can play the game. Some dps are loaded with additional indicators for enrage and debuffs, but these are things you could have timed yourself anyway. And also the one post where said forumer said that Crit Factor is a recommended roll on tanks even when Essential Mana which they tried to point out said way too many times it is a garbage roll, but that is besides the point.

    The game is not at a point where you will be automatically shunned if you do low damage yet. There are still a handful of people who do not discriminate based on third party sites. Regardless, I do sincerely hope that more people actually spend extra time grooming new or learning players, even if it is just a little, because you need these people to keep the game going as well (of course on top of BHS/EME stopping their horrible decisions)
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Partyblast wrote: »
    MistyTera wrote: »
    So now you know why EME/BHS forbids the use of DPS meters.

    Except your wrong, BHS allows meter usage and are allowing other regions to implement their own to combat the exact stupidity you're spewing out in long painful to read posts. EmE pulls the whole "don't be a [filtered] and harass people with it" stance, even after the whole third-party fiasco. They even allow you to report people using it: just see that valk that got banned for doing 11m/s in KC, the meter was posted by SOMEONE NOT BANNED and it instigated the investigation, however the ban was not because they used meter.

    The publishers are the ones who take a stance about dps meters, not BHS.

    EME took a stance of not banning if it is not used for harrassment.

    Reports agains players who use meters will not result into a ban if that player didn't incur into something agraviating against players of the spirit of the game.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Equitas wrote: »
    I admittedly haven't read every comment here thoroughly, so I don't know exactly what Usagi's stance is or why people seem to hate them, but I do think they made a fair point about how DPS meters aren't the be all and end all of improvement. As I've said before:

    I am not against the use of dps meters, I am saying that the use of a dps meter by a new/begginer player without proper guidance can be a backslash or hinder their grow in the game, even telling a new player to go and read a guide is not a good option at all, because those guides were wrote by min-maxers using an specific gear, with specific circunstances (ping and high tier players araound). This is not optimal for a new player that is learning the game and for tanks are even worse because most of guides don't even mention agro crystals and tier 2 threatening etchings that are a good way to keep agro for them until they improve. Obviously some min-maxers in the game don't like this kind of point as they are not learning the game again so they forgot how diferent the experience for a player can be when they start from 0 (practice and theory). For them DPS meter will be only numbers that they will not understand why are like that.
  • PartyblastPartyblast ✭✭✭✭
    Margarethe wrote: »
    Unsure if this was mentioned before in this thread.
    However, EME will never be able to fully endorse the use of the DPS meter due to ToS.
    The desired reply of "It's fine, you can use it." from EME will never be achieved.

    They will whenever the meter BHS puts into the base game releases ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • DL7MMWLJ3WDL7MMWLJ3W ✭✭✭✭
    Well this thread has already concluded and most of us know which post to listen to while the rest are ignored and should be ignored for anything else said in the future of this forum.

    What do you think @seandynamite ? Thread gotten way too out of control cause that special someone keeps baiting people more and more.
  • CatservantCatservant ✭✭✭✭
    I will just add this: an archer, who shall remain nameless, who read guides and practiced rotations, thought she was doing well, until she consulted the "moon". The result of her mystical journey shocked her. It depressed her for a while, but in the end it has inspired her to try even harder. There is after all, so much better she can do.

    Some of us are worried about using anything not "official" to BHS. Not just for ethical reasons (they did ask us not to, after all, in the TOS) but because we can just see ourselves borking the game and having to fix it on our own since we can't admit we had anything nonstandard. The option of a totally sanctioned DPS meter sounds tremendously appealing.

    There is a stage in the game where you need the truth of your DPS made plain and unmistakable. Like a cold wet fish across the face, DPS meter readouts can give you that shock of truth.

    Or confirmation of your awesomeness if you are truly gifted, I suppose ;)

    After all, how can you efficiently improve if you don't know you are being carried by more powerful friends? I for one really hope BHS follows through and allows/supports a DPS meter as an official part of the game.
  • HuvHuv ✭✭✭
    How does anyone know that they can improve without using meter? Ignorance is bliss. Everyone will just get carried and think they r playing perfectly.
This discussion has been closed.