Considering gem craft

2

Comments

  • NorafinNorafin ✭✭
    Well then, I stand corrected.
  • Solheim wrote: »
    I fail to see an issue. Yes, going from rubies---->diamonds is a loss, but diamonds are a rare drop anyway, so...
    But ignoring diamonds for a little while, if you craft emeralds to enchant it's not much of a loss. I'll walk you through it.
    First, you do guardian legion/ghillieglade to acquire rubies and sapphires.
    Second, you sell some/all rubies to buy artisan crafting kits.
    Third, you craft the remainder to emeralds.

    Let's look at it another way.
    I need an emerald to enchant. If I buy an emerald from a player, I can expect to pay 1150-1250g. But if I just upgrade 5 sapphires to an emerald, I'm only paying ~110g for it.

    Yes, you could sell the 5 sapphires, but then you have to buy an emerald which will almost always be more expensive AND has no chance to crit.

    tldr: gem crafting seems fine.

    Emerald is fine considering the cost and market price. But EME has put too much diamond into game, so crafting diamond has been messed up.

    10 Emerald + 1000 kits takes more gold than the market price of diamond even if consideration of 5% crit chance. Same for Ruby and Sapphire. So basically other than Emerald, you will spend more gold to craft them than the market price.

    Plates have no other way to get them than crafting, so the value of those craft is still fine. But Devs have added lots of ways to get gems so they the value of gem craft is no longer worth, indeed crafteres will lose their gold if they craft ruby/sapphire/diamond.
    Crafting was fine until BHS added guardian and EME added too much event. Yes, event is very good for players, but since Devs decided to mess up the actual value of crafting, it is also fine to ask them to revamp it.
  • CatservantCatservant ✭✭✭✭
    Honestly, at least on CH, I haven't seen the drop in gem prices I was expecting with Guardian missions etc. In fact I think more people must be actively trying to gear as the price of plates both silver and gold has gone up, as has the price of emeralds.

    I've used more crafter's cures in the last week than I have since October when all this started.

    Not that I am counting on this lasting--this could be a temporary burst in gearing from the item XP events and the increased availability of diamonds (Thank YOU Master Additive!) that will peter out as people meet their goals. I'm just saying that my observations of the CURRENT state of crafting do not match.

    We may need more time yet to accurately assess what changes we would even want. Let's see how this plays out over the next month maybe.
  • LapomkoLapomko ✭✭✭
    edited March 11
    Gem crafting is not profitable because it's being controlled by tycoons with massive amount of alts that just craft them without buying crafters cure.
    They will undercut you like no tomorrow to keep you out of the game. This is part of the economy and whatever EME will do it will be the same. My friend on my server is rich [filtered] too and doing this too.
  • HLK76PFWXTHLK76PFWXT ✭✭✭
    edited March 11
    I am having an easier time with the guardian missions when it comes about either buying or crafting gems because the emeralds used to cost even 1350g up to 1400g and it was better if i would craft them through NPC materials so i was kinda doing that.. but right now i can do guardians and turn the rubies/sapphires from boxes into emeralds.. or i can buy the rubies/sapphires from the broker to craft emeralds ( this requires some luck ).. and even buy the emeralds from the broker at 1200g up to 1250g depending on the supply/demand.

    And the diamonds are not that high either so it is fine because it could have been worse ( imagine diamonds at 14k up to 15k ).

    Also, the recipe to craft Emerald costs only 10k where as the silver siglo or gold daric cost 50k .. so the Emerald crafting should not be at the same level when it comes about profit and that especially since crafting Emeralds carries almost no risk compared to gold talent going over time from 10g to 30g and silver talent from 30g to 50g ( interestingly enough.. silver siglo or gold daric make quite the profit anyway due to the high demand ).



    If i would think about gem crafting then what i would like to see was more sapphires from the guardian boxes that could help us to craft emeralds easier since its more expensive starting from rubies than sapphires.


    p.s. all crafted items have 5% chance to crit from my experience
  • CatservantCatservant ✭✭✭✭
    Lapomko wrote: »
    Gem crafting is not profitable because it's being controlled by tycoons with massive amount of alts that just craft them without buying crafters cure.
    They will undercut you like no tomorrow to keep you out of the game. This is part of the economy and whatever EME will do it will be the same. My friend on my server is rich [filtered] too and doing this too.

    Just to get the correct information out there, it isn't 4000 pp per character. It's per server. So my gemcrafter, my armorcrafter and my weaponcrafter all share.

    Now because I have a stockpile of old elite consumable boxes I hadn't opened I have about 150 crafters cures saved up, and many long time Elite players are the same. So the effect is the same and probably what you meant--those of us who have those don't BUY crafters cures. But we do use them.

    The way your post was worded could have promoted a false impression of how this works. Felt something should be said for accuracy.
  • StevenAnthonyStevenAnthony ✭✭✭✭
    Catservant wrote: »
    Lapomko wrote: »
    Gem crafting is not profitable because it's being controlled by tycoons with massive amount of alts that just craft them without buying crafters cure.
    They will undercut you like no tomorrow to keep you out of the game. This is part of the economy and whatever EME will do it will be the same. My friend on my server is rich [filtered] too and doing this too.

    Just to get the correct information out there, it isn't 4000 pp per character. It's per server. So my gemcrafter, my armorcrafter and my weaponcrafter all share.

    Now because I have a stockpile of old elite consumable boxes I hadn't opened I have about 150 crafters cures saved up, and many long time Elite players are the same. So the effect is the same and probably what you meant--those of us who have those don't BUY crafters cures. But we do use them.

    The way your post was worded could have promoted a false impression of how this works. Felt something should be said for accuracy.

    him talk about multy- acounts
  • CatservantCatservant ✭✭✭✭
    Catservant wrote: »
    Lapomko wrote: »
    Gem crafting is not profitable because it's being controlled by tycoons with massive amount of alts that just craft them without buying crafters cure.
    They will undercut you like no tomorrow to keep you out of the game. This is part of the economy and whatever EME will do it will be the same. My friend on my server is rich [filtered] too and doing this too.

    Just to get the correct information out there, it isn't 4000 pp per character. It's per server. So my gemcrafter, my armorcrafter and my weaponcrafter all share.

    Now because I have a stockpile of old elite consumable boxes I hadn't opened I have about 150 crafters cures saved up, and many long time Elite players are the same. So the effect is the same and probably what you meant--those of us who have those don't BUY crafters cures. But we do use them.

    The way your post was worded could have promoted a false impression of how this works. Felt something should be said for accuracy.

    him talk about multy- acounts

    I thought of that after I posted--literally anyone can do it. I believe you are going back on your word to EME (Don't we agree to have only one account per person? i can't recall) but other wise if you want to create multiple accounts and mail yourself the results of crafting, I suppose you can.

    Because it isn't the cost of the production points that drives the profitability of the market but the cost of the crafting kits.

    And again, I don't know how it is on other servers, but on CH I have been selling things for above the "make from scratch" breakeven point for the firs time since October. So from my perspective this seems a really weird time to START this topic, but whatever.

    And also again, the way I read the quoted post seemed easy to misread and could have spread misinformation, so I wanted to set the record straight.
  • allofspaceandtimeallofspaceandtime ✭✭✭✭✭
    Catservant wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    Lapomko wrote: »
    Gem crafting is not profitable because it's being controlled by tycoons with massive amount of alts that just craft them without buying crafters cure.
    They will undercut you like no tomorrow to keep you out of the game. This is part of the economy and whatever EME will do it will be the same. My friend on my server is rich [filtered] too and doing this too.

    Just to get the correct information out there, it isn't 4000 pp per character. It's per server. So my gemcrafter, my armorcrafter and my weaponcrafter all share.

    Now because I have a stockpile of old elite consumable boxes I hadn't opened I have about 150 crafters cures saved up, and many long time Elite players are the same. So the effect is the same and probably what you meant--those of us who have those don't BUY crafters cures. But we do use them.

    The way your post was worded could have promoted a false impression of how this works. Felt something should be said for accuracy.

    him talk about multy- acounts

    I thought of that after I posted--literally anyone can do it. I believe you are going back on your word to EME (Don't we agree to have only one account per person? i can't recall) but other wise if you want to create multiple accounts and mail yourself the results of crafting, I suppose you can.

    Because it isn't the cost of the production points that drives the profitability of the market but the cost of the crafting kits.

    And again, I don't know how it is on other servers, but on CH I have been selling things for above the "make from scratch" breakeven point for the firs time since October. So from my perspective this seems a really weird time to START this topic, but whatever.

    And also again, the way I read the quoted post seemed easy to misread and could have spread misinformation, so I wanted to set the record straight.

    the way it was told to me, you can have up to 5 accounts.
  • LapomkoLapomko ✭✭✭
    Catservant wrote: »
    Lapomko wrote: »
    Gem crafting is not profitable because it's being controlled by tycoons with massive amount of alts that just craft them without buying crafters cure.
    They will undercut you like no tomorrow to keep you out of the game. This is part of the economy and whatever EME will do it will be the same. My friend on my server is rich [filtered] too and doing this too.

    Just to get the correct information out there, it isn't 4000 pp per character. It's per server. So my gemcrafter, my armorcrafter and my weaponcrafter all share.

    Now because I have a stockpile of old elite consumable boxes I hadn't opened I have about 150 crafters cures saved up, and many long time Elite players are the same. So the effect is the same and probably what you meant--those of us who have those don't BUY crafters cures. But we do use them.

    The way your post was worded could have promoted a false impression of how this works. Felt something should be said for accuracy.

    Yep talking about multi-account alts not on the same account of course so they don't have buy crafters cure to get more PP eliminating the additional cost from crafting them.
  • LapomkoLapomko ✭✭✭
    edited March 11
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    Lapomko wrote: »
    Gem crafting is not profitable because it's being controlled by tycoons with massive amount of alts that just craft them without buying crafters cure.
    They will undercut you like no tomorrow to keep you out of the game. This is part of the economy and whatever EME will do it will be the same. My friend on my server is rich [filtered] too and doing this too.

    Just to get the correct information out there, it isn't 4000 pp per character. It's per server. So my gemcrafter, my armorcrafter and my weaponcrafter all share.

    Now because I have a stockpile of old elite consumable boxes I hadn't opened I have about 150 crafters cures saved up, and many long time Elite players are the same. So the effect is the same and probably what you meant--those of us who have those don't BUY crafters cures. But we do use them.

    The way your post was worded could have promoted a false impression of how this works. Felt something should be said for accuracy.

    him talk about multy- acounts

    I thought of that after I posted--literally anyone can do it. I believe you are going back on your word to EME (Don't we agree to have only one account per person? i can't recall) but other wise if you want to create multiple accounts and mail yourself the results of crafting, I suppose you can.

    Because it isn't the cost of the production points that drives the profitability of the market but the cost of the crafting kits.

    And again, I don't know how it is on other servers, but on CH I have been selling things for above the "make from scratch" breakeven point for the firs time since October. So from my perspective this seems a really weird time to START this topic, but whatever.

    And also again, the way I read the quoted post seemed easy to misread and could have spread misinformation, so I wanted to set the record straight.

    Multiaccount is one of the things more abused in Tera.

    I know people who have more than 10 accounts they made when Tera became f2p. The main purposes have been to be able to farm gold, later to abuse stream codes and now those are to farm jewel boxes.

    Multiaccount is not that profitable for crafting purposes.

    Maybe not gems but I made fortune from crafting golden/silver plates. I can't tell about other servers but on AV known as dead server plates are pretty expensive compared to other servers.
    on AV people buy alot of gems to transfer to their wealth with them to MT/TR so their demand is much higher maybe the economy there is flooded with people coming from low pop servers dumping them.
    Catservant wrote: »
    Catservant wrote: »
    Lapomko wrote: »
    Gem crafting is not profitable because it's being controlled by tycoons with massive amount of alts that just craft them without buying crafters cure.
    They will undercut you like no tomorrow to keep you out of the game. This is part of the economy and whatever EME will do it will be the same. My friend on my server is rich [filtered] too and doing this too.

    Just to get the correct information out there, it isn't 4000 pp per character. It's per server. So my gemcrafter, my armorcrafter and my weaponcrafter all share.

    Now because I have a stockpile of old elite consumable boxes I hadn't opened I have about 150 crafters cures saved up, and many long time Elite players are the same. So the effect is the same and probably what you meant--those of us who have those don't BUY crafters cures. But we do use them.

    The way your post was worded could have promoted a false impression of how this works. Felt something should be said for accuracy.

    him talk about multy- acounts

    I thought of that after I posted--literally anyone can do it. I believe you are going back on your word to EME (Don't we agree to have only one account per person? i can't recall) but other wise if you want to create multiple accounts and mail yourself the results of crafting, I suppose you can.

    Because it isn't the cost of the production points that drives the profitability of the market but the cost of the crafting kits.

    And again, I don't know how it is on other servers, but on CH I have been selling things for above the "make from scratch" breakeven point for the firs time since October. So from my perspective this seems a really weird time to START this topic, but whatever.

    And also again, the way I read the quoted post seemed easy to misread and could have spread misinformation, so I wanted to set the record straight.

    the way it was told to me, you can have up to 5 accounts.

    You can just use VPN. That's what EME suggest us to fix lag.
  • EllexemEllexem ✭✭✭
    JasonTERA wrote: »
    And I am really asking is..BHS/EME have added more gem drops. So it's time to consider the crafting. Because the fundamental of crafting is to get what you need for cheaper or to make gold by selling them.

    No, the fundamental of crafting is that you have the item available at your convenience. Not every item has to make a profit on its own, or even be cheaper than acquiring it through other means. It's entirely natural to have items that have alternative sources for them. The crafted version can be the fallback option, they don't have to be the primary (or cheapest) source.

    From the point of view of crafting Emeralds, cheaper Sapphires are just a net positive, because the cost to craft Sapphires acts as the natural ceiling for what you'd be willing to pay for them. (Though you realistically should also be costing PP for that, since that is also part of why you'd be willing to buy them.)

    The whole setup, as it currently stands, both gives you choices as well as rewarding active gameplay acquisition of items. If crafting would be always cheaper, then why even engage the other parts of gameplay for this?

    So the market price for them is really about how cheap they have to be so that crafters want to buy them, which means that them being cheaper than the cost to make them is the natural equilibrium for them, if there are multiple sources. You aren't competing with them for market share, they compete with your own costs for making the higher ticket items, which are your actual market.

    Please note that this is mainly relevant as an observation for Rubies and Sapphires. The Diamond part is more of a problem, though I feel that at least part of this might be just your server. On the one I just had a character online, Diamonds would still be making a profit even at your first cost estimate.

    The only thing that you can really argue that this whole setup hits is those who want to try to act as material feeders, so be in direct competition with the drops as a source for the gems. To pretty much turn PP into gold by offering to take on that part for other crafters. While I can see how that could be an appeal to certain people, I don't feel that it's a role particularly worth protecting. (And it would also be utterly obliterated by turning crafted gems untradeable.)
    Well, if they add no-trade version of crafting gem with reduced cost, it will help for people who craft them for themselves. The problem is there are many ways to get gems in game - crafting, dungeon, event, guardian, etc.

    If they simply revamp the gem crafting, the price of dropped one will again undercut the crafted one so that same issue will happen again. However, if they add no-trade version, they will not conflict with dropped one.

    'Cannot trade' items can still be sold to vendors. Unless they also get the 'No sales value' or a reduced vendor value compared to the dropped version, it doesn't matter If you can give them to other players or not; as long as they have a vendor value, they will continue to have an absolute minimum material cost of that. If they did not, then you're just introducing ways to bot money, which TERA has a long history of trying to eliminate all sources of.

    If the items stay entirely 'Cannot Trade' at all levels, Ruby to Diamond, then you are entirely just crafting for yourself and your alts. There is now no longer any profit, since you have nothing to sell. The only thing you have is reduced costs, with no ability to get any value added to things from your crafting skill. You'd still need to earn the money to craft things from other activities. You also lose out on the benefit of turning any gem drops into feed material for making better ones, because that would a) be throwing away money, and b) likely would require a duplication of the recipes to even be possible.

    If you produce the fully tradable item (Emerald or Diamond) at some stage, then you are back to its vendor value providing the lower limit for what it can have cost you to make, because otherwise the vendor is printing money for you. Which we do not want to keep the game as healthy as possible.

    This minimum cost will not price in PP, so that would be an extra expense on top of that. That is a very thin margin market to want to move in. And it likely would require both an untradeable and a tradable Emerald to be able to both keep the option of being able to make a Diamond at 10k gold in cost as well as not just having a flat PP fee for turning 10 Emeralds into 1 Diamond (something I very much doubt we'd ever see from EME/BHS).

    Which leaves us with my other suggestion, of tradable gems that have a crafted tag (to clearly differentiate them) and either no vendor value or a reduced vendor value. This would effectively remove the dropped gems as a viable source of material, because they are now always more expensive for the crafter to pick, over their own efforts. Profits are still an option, since you can sell them to others.

    But this last option kills the dropped gems as a market good, they are only worth selling to a vendor and using the profits for buying the cheaper crafted versions. So they'd just be back to being cash drops. At which point, we might as well drop this whole gems part and just introduce a talent analogue. Let's say you get Crystalline Structures from Guardian Mission and other drops meant to make enchanting easier. Each structure is worth 1 point. They can drop in multiples. (Say the typical Guardian Box gives you 2-8, with outlier drops of 10 and a very, very rare 100.) They stack. You need 10 to make a Reinforced Structure (Emerald), 100 to make a Purified (Diamond). Accumulate them as you wish. Their sales value to a vendor can be in line with what Talents sell for. Maybe allow you to dismantle existing gems to get more structures.

    At which point we are pretty much like the Darics, Plates and Siglos.
  • I believe the fundamental of crafting is to make profit or to get items cheaper. I 100% agree with that "Not All" are worth to craft, but diamond is the top tier crafting one for alchemists. EME added many direct sources of diamond and they [filtered] up the diamond craft. I honestly do not think they have ever thought about crafting when they add the sources of diamond.

    Also, I honestly do not understand why you said

    LXM6H9H4JH wrote: »
    No, the fundamental of crafting is that you have the item available at your convenience. Not every item has to make a profit on its own, or even be cheaper than acquiring it through other means. It's entirely natural to have items that have alternative sources for them. The crafted version can be the fallback option, they don't have to be the primary (or cheapest) source.

    "At your convenience"... Well, people can purchase diamond at their convenient time (most likely whenever they want) since EME has put lots of gems into game so that it is not even hard to find a seller.


    I would like to ask

    1) Is diamond craft fine?

    2) Are you willing to craft diamond instead of selling emerald and then buying diamond?

    3) What is the point of crafting diamond(the top tier alchemy craft) when you even lose gold compared to purchasing it from broker?
  • For me is more than profitable, last RK event i got 15 master craft additive wich gave me 15 more diamonds, so 15 * 12k = 180k ez money, and like others already said here you can farm sapphires and rubys from guardian and GG make emeralds and sell ez money too and the 5% crit rate isn't accurated, cause you can get like 2 crits crafting 10 emeralds, like i did sometimes
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