Give smart dyad niveot structure to pve store

GlitchyTrash · June 2016

Mobius1 wrote: »

Legerrarwen wrote: »

Starfall weapon is NOT better than Conflate weapon. Currently Starfall chest is better, but any smart person would get Conflate chest, because it becomes BiS once they move the PvP defense from boots to gloves. Conflate gloves are BiS unless you are a healer. The only item that won't be worth having is conflate boots, because Starfall will be better, after the update.

Actually you are wrong, Starfall weapon is still better than Conflate. In the damage test shown in this thread starfall did more white front damage than conflate, which is not even taking into account the back damage line on the starfall weapon. So there is an even larger margin of difference when hitting from behind since conflate has no rear damage line.

Mobius1 · June 2016

If you're getting more damage, it's because you probably have power etching on your starfall and not on your conflate and/or you are getting +power from set bonus from the starfall, and not the conflate.

The problem is with your test.

And regardless of the difference. both are extremely close. But +12 is so much easier to get than +15, there's no point in getting starfall (unless you already have it.).

Mobius1 · June 2016

No, I am saying +15!!!! Starfall is worse than Conflate. Deal with that

You could have also been using bad rolls on the conflate, or even attacking a mob for all I know.

sanj66 · June 2016

pooni wrote: »

Again, more talk from people who don't have conflate nor imperator talking as if they speak for the entire pvp community on which is better and which is worth the time.

And stop guessing and estimating, go get it yourself and test the numbers or find actual sources that did test it. And let me make it easier for you, I did the tests. Don't do this dumb [filtered] like "oh maybe because sf has 1 line of behind damage removed, it's worse, maybe, probably". No. Starfall already has 1 extra behind damage line even after the pvp from behind got removed. So yes SF12 does do more damage than conflate. Just look at your numbers that YOU chose to provide, so coincidentally the numbers I tested.

did you even read the post, it was FRONT white damage tested the same person tested back damage and endurance on all pieces, confalate wins except on chest piece, go check ocarnia or yosha's site that has the updates that some of these gear got in ktera that we will soon get vs the numbers that was put out. how can you get the same rolls on sf and confalate? confalate can roll pvp damage bottom lines sf cannot, so you did not take advantage of the advantages of confalate, that was the point of giving it pvp bottom roll lines.

for you to do the test properly this is what you have to do, unequip everything except your weapon and accessories as your sf can be getting a set bonus etc, then roll both weapons as optimal as they can be INDIVIDUALLY for pvp, that means rolling confalate for pvp rolls bottom line then test the damage, you cant roll both the same and do the test and then claim one is better when both have access to differing bottom line options that would output an optimal result for that specific weapon.

Yuri · June 2016

tfw everything is easier to get except for 1 thing for PvErs and they complain about it

Mobius1 · June 2016

You can call me stupid all you like. It doesn't mean you aren't anything but completely wrong.

Unless we're talking PvE damage here. But I'm not. You don't get Conflate because you want PvE damage.

GlitchyTrash · June 2016

There is no difference in the rolls you can get on conflate, starfall or vm7. The rerollable lines are all exactly the same. I'm not sure where you are getting that conflate has different rolls?

Yuri · June 2016

GlitchyTrash wrote: »

There is no difference in the rolls you can get on conflate, starfall or vm7. The rerollable lines are all exactly the same. I'm not sure where you are getting that conflate has different rolls?

Can't roll back dmg on lancer/ brawler starfall weaps, but you can roll it on VM7 weaps. Not sure about conflate.

GlitchyTrash · June 2016

Sadly lancer and brawler conflate weapons are super trash anyways since they only get 6% pvp damage and not 20% like normal dps classes.

WG7WWET5R3 · June 2016

Let me tell you something ppl. Vm 7 is endgame pvp and pve gear. Yes chest, Glove, and boots don't have pvp lines but they will get buffed which makes them better than starfall(starfall set r slightly better than vm7 atm except for weapon). Vm7 armor has dmg reduction from monsters. They r buffing it so that it has dmg reduction for both pvp and pve. And conflate armor is getting buffed. That 6% pvp dmg deduction line is gonna change to 12%. 6%pvp dmg reduction is gonna get removed from the boots. Lastly healer staff has 6% dmg reduction for pvp. Better survivability huh?

TheGreyWolf · June 2016

@Yuri as I mentioned in my first reply on here, I'm not complaining that pvpers get something nice. I spent enough time lurking around the old forums to see how angry you all were about not getting anything. Pvpers SHOULD get rewarded for their efforts, same as anyone else playing the game. I guess I'm just a little bit jealous about these smart dyads, because I personally have never ever seen one (nor am I aware of any non-pvp in-game way to get them, aside from the occasional lootbox jackpot event).

Yeah, I know the dyad structures aren't "essential" to pve. I can just run with normal niveots and a CCB and be fine. And we do have the occasional dyad structure from the crystal boxes (I use the term "occasional" very loosely here, very very RNG dependent). Problem with the "dumb" dyad structures is, you waste niveots to create a permanent (random) dyad that is 9 times out of 10, really really bad. Usually when I get bad results from RNG, I can at least sell the resulting pile of "herbaceous extrusions". Not so in the case of bad dyads. No no, I must again roll my dice with RNG, two more times, wasting yet more niveots and rare dyad structures to produce 2 more completely useless permanent dyads. Now that I have 3 utter crap dyads, I can now put them back into crystal fusion for a "chance" (and this is where the Almighty Skywhale laughs at thee, pathetic mortal, HA HA HA)... the CHANCE to get a better dyad structure.

Now maybe your luck is better than mine. But in my experience, it's like... 5% chance to get dyad structure from crystal box. 5% chance to actually get a decent dyad from said structure. RNG on top of RNG. So say you roll the dice X number of times and end up with 3 crappy dyads. Now you reroll those for a 5% chance to turn them into a decent dyad. I'm no math expert so I can't figure out the average value of a good dyad, though it goes something like this: average broker price of a crystal box times 20, multiplied by 3, then multiplied by 20 again (I assume, since it's like 5% of 5%, divided by 3, or something like that)... and of course that's only assuming the FIRST aspect of the crystal; not even taking into consideration the secondary effect. Say your smart dyads only have a 5% chance of giving you the desired secondary effect... I don't even want to know the odds of rolling a "perfect" pve dyad relying solely on crystal boxes (that would probably require several thousand crystal boxes, assuming "average" RNG)... I mean if you really think about it, a "perfect" pve dyad structure (absent smart dyads) is actually far more rare than a Quatrefoil Brooch; and worse still, they're completely untradeable, so it's not even something you can acquire through broker.

Perhaps my math is wrong, and if so feel free to correct me. Currently as a pve player, I'm just hoping we get another Sun event so that I can get more of those dumb dyad structures... and maybe if I sacrifice enough of them to the Great Skywhale, he may bless me with good rolls (all hail the Almighty Exalted One Who Flies Above Us)

sanj66 · June 2016

GlitchyTrash wrote: »

There is no difference in the rolls you can get on conflate, starfall or vm7. The rerollable lines are all exactly the same. I'm not sure where you are getting that conflate has different rolls?

you can roll pvp damage lines on confalate , you cannot roll pvp damage lines on starfall, imperator, slaughter etc, and for pooni flat damage is not the same as pvp damage lines in pvp fyi, this just goes to show your level of ignorance and misinformation, the source also does not show sf+12 is better than confalate.

GlitchyTrash · June 2016

Are you meaning the difference between starfalls 6% damage roll and conflates 6% PvP damage roll? Because 6% is still 6% in PvP even if it's PvP specific or damage in general. If starfalls flat damage roll didn't effect PvP then it would have been worse than tensus (which had PvP specific rolls) and we know it's better than tensus and always has been. So I'm not seeing how you came to the conclusion that starfall's isn't for PvP. Maybe go actually try PvP for once and see for yourself.

Mobius1 · June 2016

I implied no such thing.

But if the damage tests were done in PvE, then the conflate rolls obviously wouldn't help.

Honestly, it's simple math that Conflate weapon is better. Conflate weapon gets +20% PvP damage, and +6% damage, for +26% total. It has 17522 attack modifier. Starfall gets +6% damage, +6% PvP damage, and +14 PvP attack. It has 16852.

Now, we don't know exactly how much +PvP attack increases damage, but it would be somewhere along the lines of +7-10% PvP damage. So let's give it the benefit of the doubt and say 10%. That means Starfall gets +22% damage total.

I won't compare rerollable stats, because both are the same if rolled for max PvP damage.

So in the end, Conflate has 670 higher attack modifier, and +4% more PvP damage. Any test that shows conflate doing less damage from front than Starfall, is doing something to skew the results.

All it takes is having a Starfall belt on, giving the +8 power bonus, to skew the results. Or any other number of variables, such as Conflate missing best damage rolls, or whatever else.

Mobius1 · June 2016

Again, call me stupid, dumb, or whatever other insult you like. It doesn't change the fact that you pulled some test out of your [filtered] and expect us to accept it as fact.

I gave solid factual numbers that everyone has access to - not some test I'm supposed to take someone's word on.

Usually people that have to resort to insults on the forums, are the ones with little fact to base their arguments on. I'd put you in that boat. All you been doing is calling people stupid and idiots, etc., that disagree with you. But I assure you, I am anything BUT stupid.

I've been crunching numbers in MMOs, since probably before you were born, or perhaps when you were still in diapers. I don't claim to be infallible or have all the answers. But please don't insult my intelligence, or knowledge.

Give smart dyad niveot structure to pve store

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