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65 levels of learning nothing

I know this "community" the TERA playerbase used to complain about how it took too long to level (it didn't), and sometimes they still do (it certainly doesn't now), but the current "easy mode" leveling system and constant bonus experience events are dangerous. You might be tired of the "learning your class" cliché, but there's a lot of truth behind it. People are allowed to breeze through to level 65 having learned nothing about what crystals to equip, what gear perks to set, and what rotations to use. Sometimes they'll show up in level 65 dungeons with zero crystals equipped whatsoever. I encountered a case like this earlier this week with a Priest I was matched with via IM. His response, when I told him he was missing crystals, was "I don't need crystals." Here is a snippet from the rest of the conversation:

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He was insecure, got offended I pointed out his lack of proper equipment, and started throwing around buzzwords/phrases like "dyads", and about how he runs harder content like RMHM on another character, while trying to slam my equipment and being totally incorrect in the process. I'm guessing he saw what's trendy on MT and decided to parrot that in an effort to make it look like he knew what he was talking about. He chose pride [over] constructive criticism and an opportunity to improve. The unfortunate part is that this game, and its players, enable that mentality by allowing people like that to continue to progress. This is why people like me feel the way we do about the experience rewards in this game, and why there doesn't need to be 2/4/6x xp boosts every time a new class or patch is released.
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Comments

  • DL7MMWLJ3WDL7MMWLJ3W ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    And what's the point of this exactly? We've had easy leveling for the longest time so you are couple of years late to be addressing this.

    Besides, even if you don't spoonfed these kinds of people while they are leveling, they will still continue to make mistakes regardless. Wrong rolls, spacebaring chain-links, wrong crystal, never stand behind boss, etc.

    I mean...

    If it bothers you that much to be playing with new players who don't make the right choices, then why are you torturing yourself playing with those kinds of people. It truly makes me wonder why bother with it. Let them be iggorant, there's nothing you can do about it. They might quit in a few days anyways.

    If new players really want to learn, they will study up and learn from their mistakes. New players who don't give a damn, just let them be losers.
  • DvsvDvsv ✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    I never learned anything about my class rotation when i was leveling and that was true since the old island of the dawn..
    Maybe cuz i was lacking essential skill and glyphs from lv 65 content?
    Leveling was always just a boring time sink and just a nuisance to make alts...
    And that's exactly why i think the 439 ilvl requirement is just stupid for awakening, ppl will not "get good" before they awaken, they'll just waste time with obsolete and useless rotations.

    Maybe you should just ignore noob content and join an end-game guild to run only HM content??
  • Why were you wasting time trying to reason with this person? Especially since they are from a IM? They arn't gunna listen and you should of known that the moment they tried to validate themselves on their "irrelevant" main. This is practically why you dont IM unless you really want to "yolo" this behavior should sadly be expected.
  • Nothing new here. People have been hitting endgame without any real knowledge of their class / the game since the P2P era, this has nothing to do with the changes to leveling.
  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    For a moment I thought you were talking about me because I made an alt priest and on the day I hit 65 I did rg and kc in twist gear completely "naked" without crystals since I was too lazy to pick some crystals up from my alts. And apparently dougal doesn't hand you hardies right away anymore, you need to do trn or something? Was weird.

    Anyway, a guy noticed that and informed me I have none equipped so I told him the truth and he was like "riiiiight", didn't believe me lmao.
    Maybe that priest really was an experienced player in a similar situation to mine because you don't really need crystals in low tiers as a healer and if you just got your gear and stuff and want to get the dougal questline over with fast then this stuff happens.

    I mean since he knew what dyads were and stuff, maybe he really just couldn't be bothered with crystals that are honestly absolutely irrelevant in easy content for a healer.
  • HaloistHaloist ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Well to be fair, ilvl 412 dungeons don't require crystals on healers if they know what they're doing, and since you didn't state what you IMSed for, it's not fair for anyone to start taking sides on the matter.

    Assuming it was an ilvl 412 dungeon, then what I wanna ask is: was the healer doing a bad job? Or are you just using his/her lack of crystals for the sake of your argument that the game teaches nothing when leveling so fast. Cuz if I were to base it off of your screenshot, it proves nothing about his lack of knowledge. On the contrary, the fact that he knows that dyads exist kinda proves that he/she isn't just some random newbie who had only started playing this game for a week, so I don't see any point in you using that healer as an example.

    Regardless, as much as I despise trash players who don't bother learning the game, there really isn't a way to force them to learn unless the [filtered] game makes them, which neither of us have control over.
    I've been in your shoes before, and have absolutely hated players who IMSed into mid tier dungeons with inappropriate crystals (think DFNM when DFHM was considered a high tier dungeon), but as the others have commented, there's nothing you can do about it unless they genuinely gave a [filtered].
    If i were to use myself as an example, after leveling about 3 toons to 65, whenever I wanted to try a new class, I would look up guides to see what skills to focus on before even touching that class. Why did I do that? Because I actually wanted to be able to play those classes well. That's it.

    To sum it all up, the root of the problem lies in the mentality of the players, and not how fast leveling is nowadays. "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". Even if you somehow convinced EME/BHS to slow down the pace of leveling to "lead the trash players to water", there's just no way to "make them drink" unless they want to. So my advice is to either just live with it if you intend to continue using IMS, or just stay out of IMS completely.

    Edit: To add on, I would definitely not want EME/BHS to slow down the pace of leveling. It's already annoying af to have to solo BAMs to level up cuz it's hard enough to find dungeon runs at lower levels. I don't see any reason to punish capable players who want to advance to endgame dungeons faster just cuz bad eggs exist.
  • I remember when I hit level 60 back in like 2013 or something. I thought I was a god with my mystic, only to find out I sucked.
    I happened to get in to the mind set of "I don't wanna be useless!" so I learned what I could. You just have to hope that players like this get in to that mindset... sometimes it may take a long time.

    Seeing the spacebar chain link thing >.< I will admit, I made spacebar chains for my reaper because Im a lazy [filtered] with that class.
    I cant spacebar my Mystic though, other wise it would screw my rotation.
  • In what game, let alone this one, has the leveling experience ever prepared you for end game, or how to gear or play your character at end game? I can't say there aren't any, but I haven't played them yet. In fact, this is a frequent complaint of almost every game I have played that has an end game.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    While old Tera dungeons were harder and leveling was longer, the pre max level mentality and post max level mentality has always been different, even back when Akasha's Hideout and Ebon Tower (level 57 stuff) were end game. Do also remember that these kinds of games are populated by casuals, and those usually populate the entry level dungeons when reaching max level. You will most likely never see those players on high tier dungeons because the I-level requirement will defeat them. Though in a game that's like 70% gear and 30% skill for end game, you could see a casual glowing whale or two to ruin your day. BUT, as said by others before me, you can cure yourself of that by not doing IM, and instead looking for a group of people with the same goals and methods as you.

    Long ago, I had a similar conversation in these forums, about how to make the game itself teach new players before tossing them into end game. I proposed an unskippable training dungeon that gave players info about their classes, what crystals to use and positioning. The consensus was that it's too much work and youtube does exactly that same thing for free and for no extra dev effort.
  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭
    > @Nopi said:
    > Though in a game that's like 70% gear and 30% skill for end game

    Ahahah.. Haha.. No...
    I've went through a fair share of straight up p2w players (aka +7 sc gear and bellum accessories with no xp types) that did less damage than my guardian alts and couldn't carry their own weight if their life depended on it.

    I'd definitely agree gear matters more than before simply because korea is balancing around talents and we need to compensate with better gear but tera is the type of game that you can't just jump into, buy good gear and do 70% of the expected damage you're supposed to.

    You need to know basics of your class, etchings, crystals, dungeons, rotations, rolls, crit caps etc. Theres a looooot more skill in there than what you said. You cant faceroll endgame content in p2w gear if you don't have skill/exp.

    I'm not saying tera is hard to get skilled in but there's certainly some dedication needed.
    So far the only people that I know p2w and are skilled at the same time are the types that actually had geared chars in the past and had a lot of experience.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    My view on it:

    I've been a player since Reaper patch, and Kuuchan my cute Elin Warrior was my poor guinea pig at learning the game. I reached Lv 60 after like 2 months of game, knowing nothing of Warrior DPS, tanking, or anything other than carrying candy in Kumas and CS tactics. Boy I was good at those, but only those. I [filtered]'n kicked [filtered] but only at those two. I knew CS like the palm of my hand, couldn't kill to save my life, but would lead to victory the worst potatoes. Could trick Kumases of any level of experience into losing, and knew all save hiding spots. But wouldn't even hit the back of the boxes.

    The game NEVER thought anything about your class, you learn it on practice. This is also to say that I used to pick the candy for no reason thinking it was loot, farmed boxes around the map (Kumasylum), went to cap mid when it wasn't needed at all, did random ladder rushes for no reason and such (CS). So, not even the most farmed modes actually though me what to do prior, I just figured it out through players and such. I learned by myself and some external help, trial and error, and some self search. Leveling itself played no role on it other than teaching how to press interact. Heck, not even how to use a horse. No kidding! I was running on foot till lv 20.


    What you've felt of posing as something superior and epic while doing utterly stupid stuff, is what I used to call the "mid level syndrome", it's like a teenager: they think they're oh so adults and superior while being barely bigger kids. This "syndrome" only shifted now, I would call this nowadays the "fresh 65 syndrome", just a shifted version of the former, when Lv ~50s would think they're something special for hitting that oh so special goal.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    CornishRex wrote: »
    > @Nopi said:
    > Though in a game that's like 70% gear and 30% skill for end game

    Ahahah.. Haha.. No...
    I've went through a fair share of straight up p2w players (aka +7 sc gear and bellum accessories with no xp types) that did less damage than my guardian alts and couldn't carry their own weight if their life depended on it.

    I'd definitely agree gear matters more than before simply because korea is balancing around talents and we need to compensate with better gear but tera is the type of game that you can't just jump into, buy good gear and do 70% of the expected damage you're supposed to.

    You need to know basics of your class, etchings, crystals, dungeons, rotations, rolls, crit caps etc. Theres a looooot more skill in there than what you said. You cant faceroll endgame content in p2w gear if you don't have skill/exp.

    I'm not saying tera is hard to get skilled in but there's certainly some dedication needed.
    So far the only people that I know p2w and are skilled at the same time are the types that actually had geared chars in the past and had a lot of experience.

    What I mean is, the game allows whales to go up there untrained. You have seen them, and even though they can't hold a candle against a try hard player, they can still enter more or less the same places, albeit with like a night and day difference in results. Though lastly, what this game really rewards in pve is good memory (remembering your rotations and boss patterns) and pre battle preparations (all the gearing).
  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭
    > @Nopi said:
    > What I mean is, the game allows whales to go up there untrained. You have seen them, and even though they can't hold a candle against a try hard player, they can still enter more or less the same places, albeit with like a night and day difference in results. Though lastly, what this game really rewards in pve is good memory (remembering your rotations and boss patterns) and pre battle preparations (all the gearing).

    Honestly after reading your post more than once I understand what you meant, I shouldn't be posting at 2 am hah
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    CornishRex wrote: »
    > @Nopi said:
    > What I mean is, the game allows whales to go up there untrained. You have seen them, and even though they can't hold a candle against a try hard player, they can still enter more or less the same places, albeit with like a night and day difference in results. Though lastly, what this game really rewards in pve is good memory (remembering your rotations and boss patterns) and pre battle preparations (all the gearing).

    Honestly after reading your post more than once I understand what you meant, I shouldn't be posting at 2 am hah

    hah. I know the feeling.
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