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PvP gear comparison and testing.
This topic came up in a different thread, but I thought it warranted its own discussion.
If you look at the stats of +15 Starfall, and +12 Conflate, for DPS classes, on paper Conflate looks better. But there are claims that Starfall damage is actually better.
One thing that I think may be making Starfall seem better, is the diminishing returns of +PvP stats.
As far as I know, when someone with high +PvP stats goes up against someone with low or no +PvP stats, then you actually get less benefit from them.
For example, if I have +40% PvP attack, and I attack someone with +0% PvP defense.....I will not actually get +40% attack from my +PvP attack stat. But if I attacked someone with +40% PvP defense, then I actually would get that +40%.
So if someone was testing damage on someone with low PvP stats, it could skew the results.
Honestly, I have never tested this, and am curious about how much information out there is actually correct, when reading about tests people have done.
One easy way to do some testing, would be to play around with equipping PvP attack and defense crystals, and having the attacker and defender play around with switching out different armors (and weapon/armor crystals.).
Anyone with a DPS conflate and a Starfall weapon feel like doing some testing?
If you look at the stats of +15 Starfall, and +12 Conflate, for DPS classes, on paper Conflate looks better. But there are claims that Starfall damage is actually better.
One thing that I think may be making Starfall seem better, is the diminishing returns of +PvP stats.
As far as I know, when someone with high +PvP stats goes up against someone with low or no +PvP stats, then you actually get less benefit from them.
For example, if I have +40% PvP attack, and I attack someone with +0% PvP defense.....I will not actually get +40% attack from my +PvP attack stat. But if I attacked someone with +40% PvP defense, then I actually would get that +40%.
So if someone was testing damage on someone with low PvP stats, it could skew the results.
Honestly, I have never tested this, and am curious about how much information out there is actually correct, when reading about tests people have done.
One easy way to do some testing, would be to play around with equipping PvP attack and defense crystals, and having the attacker and defender play around with switching out different armors (and weapon/armor crystals.).
Anyone with a DPS conflate and a Starfall weapon feel like doing some testing?
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Weapon: Imperator > Starfall > Conflate
Chest: Starfall > All
Gloves: Conflate > Starfall > Imperator
Boots: Conflate (prenerf) > Starfall > Imperator > Conflate (postnerf)
The only conflate piece worth using in the long run are the gloves. Boots are best in slot until we get the nerf in the next month or two. Conflate chest, even after the buff, doesn't come close to starfall. Conflate gloves give the most damage as from my testing with Imperator weapon, conflate gloves give the same amount of damage as starfall, but give more defense and has a 12 endurance rollable for cloth classes (sorcerers/ninjas).
For a comparison: starfall gloves have the 3% damage line that all VM gloves have, and 7 pvp damage. Conflate gloves have 6% pvp damage but lack the vm damage line and any flat pvp damage. So you're looking at 3% and 7 pvp vs 6% pvp damage, which ends up being equal. (I did only 2 less damage with conflate when I tested it against my starfall, literally 3597 vs 3599) Conflate ends up being both the more economical option as well as the superior one due to the higher defense.
Looking forward to this bro
http://imgur.com/jBKGnGD These are my stats through out all of the damage testing. Each weapon has their 6% damage roll and their 6% damage when hitting from behind roll.(In conflates case they are PvP specific) All damage is white(non-crit) damage from behind. Each test subject only has their weapon equipped to keep other factors from aiding in the damage. As well as each of them has no charms or buffs. All subjects hit me with a fireblast with no previous skills to raise the damage. I will link a screen shot of their gear to prove this as well. In each case I will link the damage with no indoms on and then with indoms on for people who are curious of the difference.
First is Starfall +12, a non crit fireblast hit me for 10,008 damage without indoms on and 9066 with indoms on.
http://imgur.com/Lyu1Zqu Gear of Starfall +12
http://imgur.com/35VdxfF Damage with no indoms on
http://imgur.com/8wDhR1I Damage with indoms on
Second is Starfall +15, it hit me for 11,503 with no indoms on and 10,420 with indoms on.
http://imgur.com/71AViDz Starfall +15 gear
http://imgur.com/LtJMoDA Damage with no indoms
http://imgur.com/xjLvdzc Damage with indoms on
Between Starfall +12 and Starfall +15 there is a damage increase of a tick under 15%.
Last is Conflate, which hit me for 10,661 with no indoms on and 9658 with indoms on.
http://imgur.com/TG1TlSy Conflate gear
http://imgur.com/Nt9pk2I damage with no indoms
http://imgur.com/PI99wOd damage with indoms on
This means that Conflate +12 does between 6% to 6.5% more damage than starfall +12 depending on if the target is wearing indoms or not. This also means that Starfall +15 does just under 8% more damage than Conflate +12.
A MAJOR ASPECT TO BE NOTED. Yes Conflate does about 6% more damage than starfall +12 but also remember that starfall +12 also has one more roll, meaning that a starfall +12 weapon can have have all the damage rolls like conflate plus another utility rolls such as added cooldown or atk speed. As someone who has a lot of experience in Tera PvP I can tell you that the extra 4.5% atk speed or 7.2% cooldown do make a big difference when you fight people who actually know how to PvP and should not be looked at as negligible and can be considered as more important than the 6% damage due to that cooldown possibly being the difference between landing a skill sooner than your opponent and continuing a combo.
TL;DR Based off hard numbers, Starfall +15 is much much better than conflate(which should have been obvious from the start) and while +12 starfall does slightly less damage, it has more rolls to make up for it. Conflate is good for PvP if thats what you want, but starfall is basically just as good and you can upgrade and enchant it over time to make it for sure better than conflate.
TL;DR+ PVE'ERS STOP TELLING PEOPLE THAT CONFLATE IS THE BEST AND THAT IT IS SUPPOSE TO BE THE PVP VM GEAR. IT IS ABSOLUTELY NOT. Ty
PS: Let me know if I messed up anything or if you have questions.
Could we still get a damage comparison against a slaughter weapon? Would be interesting to see where that falls on the spectrum. With regards to the original post, a minor point is that the +15 sorc's disc had power etched on it so the damage numbers would be a little bit higher (+12 sorc has keen, conflate sorc has no etch).
But a couple problems that I have with it:
1)Starfall has +6.9% damage extra from behind. As far as I know, this adds on apart from any diminishing returns of +PvP damage. You should do the test from the front.
2)Your conflate has no etching which makes a big difference.
3)You mentioned testing with and without indomitable crystals on, but that's hardly any +PvP defense. What armor was the target wearing?
Was the test done on someone with very high PvP defense? If it wasn't, could you try it? Preferably on a cloth wearer.
Like I said in the OP - Diminishing returns could be skewing results. And simply putting on indoms could perhaps not be giving enough PvP defense to get over a hard diminishing returns cap.
Basically, if Conflate has a better advantage against someone with full PvP gear, then most PvPers would prefer that, over having a better advantage against the undergeared. That is, if diminishing returns play a role or not.
EDIT: Basically, what needs to be done, for a proper test, is a test with both attacker and defender in full PvP gear. The problem is that this adds other variables, such as damage increase from gloves, and set bonuses. One thing that you could do, is unequip your belt when testing a weapon that gets an extra set bonus. And also, having the same etchings is necessary. But you could equip +power crystals to even things out.
1) Testing only front damage would be unfair towards starfall because you are trying to take away from it by excluding one of its rolls. And hitting a targets back is what you are suppose to do I'm PvP.
2) I addressed the etching concern, while yes it gives an increase to the +15, the +15 already is shown to do much more than conflate, more than just what 10 power would give you. As well as it should be noted that in PvP weapon etchings usually do not contribute to the amount of damage a player does due to almost every class using energetic 3s.
3) I have the literal highest amount of PvP defense you can obtain when I have indoms on, so if there is actually a soft cap and I haven't hit it, then no one can currently.
4) doing stuff like unequiping a belt is contradicting your idea of having someone in full PvP gear to do the testing. Because the belt and set bonuses are important aspects to consider when you are building your character. Especially for PvP.
Summery: Basically I set out to prove to 2 PvE heroes from another thread that they were wrong about conflate being the best PvP gear and I believe I've shown enough data and reasoning to prove it.