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If only this was scaled instead of removed.

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Comments

  • LapomkoLapomko ✭✭✭
    If they do bring those dungeons back. They should be challenging and have good loot. Last time they brought Wonderhole back. It was just a faceroll dungeon and only worth running for previous vm mats.
  • Svafnir wrote: »
    The crazyness that ensued when more people than needed took debuffs in MCHM...
    I remember this from MCHM: someone made a thread called, "ARCHERS STOP IFRAMING THE DEBUFF".
    I think that thread was deleted after a week.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    MCHM's debuff dancing was indeed unique. As a total scrub, I knew any HM dungeon was, still, and will be way beyond my head so I won't even bother with them, but smart dungeons like MCHM gave the git guds something to do and achieve.
  • canikizucanikizu ✭✭✭
    People are just looking at it through nostalgic glass. They brought back WH before, and it was not fun. It took forever to find a raid, and the dungeon was too easy compared to today's standard. By today's standard, those dungeons are so easy and slow. Have you guys seen MCHM Hard Mode on youtube?

    Why do people want these dungeons to come back? Isn't it better to let them remain as a good memory than to come back and become a joke?
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    canikizu wrote: »
    People are just looking at it through nostalgic glass. They brought back WH before, and it was not fun. It took forever to find a raid, and the dungeon was too easy compared to today's standard. By today's standard, those dungeons are so easy and slow. Have you guys seen MCHM Hard Mode on youtube?

    Why do people want these dungeons to come back? Isn't it better to let them remain as a good memory than to come back and become a joke?

    I think all dungeons should be avaliable for everyone to play them, and all HM versions should be revamped to meet the actual season skill cap.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    canikizu wrote: »
    People are just looking at it through nostalgic glass. They brought back WH before, and it was not fun. It took forever to find a raid, and the dungeon was too easy compared to today's standard. By today's standard, those dungeons are so easy and slow. Have you guys seen MCHM Hard Mode on youtube?

    Why do people want these dungeons to come back? Isn't it better to let them remain as a good memory than to come back and become a joke?

    I think all dungeons should be avaliable for everyone to play them, and all HM versions should be revamped to meet the actual season skill cap.

    I think what he meant was the machanics themselves. He's right in saying that even if we buff the attack and defense values of a dungeon, once it's mechanics are learned for long by players, the whole experience becomes less impressive. Sure, there are new players who haven't done it when they were a thing, but with so much info about them and quite a few veterants still at play, the magic would fade much faster. So the correct forwards "for the player" mentality would be to ask devs to create more new content instead of asking them to slap a paint coat to older stuff.

    yes, yes, I know, it costs a lot more to create new content. I've seen the argument so many times so I know where some people will try to drive this down from. Still, we are here in a forum where we can toss ideas around, and maybe, JUSt maybe, in a royal epic struck of luck, BHS decides to check for an idea here, and all they see is too much of "bring old stuff back and we will keep tossing our money to our screens your way" and none of "give us new content", guess what would they do. Now, not saying we can't ask for old content either as I myself would like to see some remakes, but we have to keep the balance on what we can offer as suggestions. Both new and old.

    ... I'm starting to not make sense, but whatevs...
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    I remember enjoying WH and RE back when they were first released, both pretty fun raids mostly because of all the random stuff that would happen when you had 10 people in a party. They were pretty laid back dungeons so doing stupid [filtered] or messing around wasn't as terrible.

    Probably because of the laid back style to them they also had a lot more mechanics that weren't really difficult but rather just unique, instead of just dodging OHKO after OHKO.

    It would be nice to see them return, but I can't imagine it doing well. If the rewards aren't great nobody will want to run it. If the rewards are super good, people will complain about how hard it is to get a 10-man team together, especially on lower population servers.

    Oh true, I do remember getting invited to parties with barely the proper Lv 60 gear back then for RE. They did know I wasn't much, I was only better than the healers on DPS (and they showed meters for others to see their own data), and no worries no cussing, I died and such but learned that way. It was all just so fun and laid back, no stupid min-max or go home... That's one of the reasons I've fallen back to just mid/low tier dungeons today, if I want some hard mode, I make 'em a hard mode by partying with traps and making it crazy. Heck nowadays I've seen Priest kicks from Thaumetal Refinery NORMAL MODE cause "not a mystic".

    Times sure have changed.... Obviously no rosy glasses of nostalgia saying it was all gold back then, but this part at least was.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    Svafnir wrote: »
    I miss KG... there, I said it; when it was around I hated it some days, loved it during others... now I just miss it...

    But more than anything I absolutely miss all that content that had ACTUAL mechanics instead of the incredibly annoying "iframe this or WIPE!" that has been going on for so long... WE GET IT, YOU WANT US TO FAIL AND NOT HAVE FUN!.

    The desperation of seeing Kezzel being so close to destroying the door.
    The despair you felt when Kelsy refused to change your debuff and your 60 second timer was not enough and still died to it (heck, ALL my deaths in KN are tied to that stupid debuff and Kelsy being a total Master Troll)...
    The crazyness that ensued when more people than needed took debuffs in MCHM...
    The feeling of your heart skipping a beat when some random destroyed the crystal during KN X potentially leading to a wipe...

    Now it's all donut this, slicer that, fisting there... it's like they either do it literally super lazy with IFRAME THIS, or make the mechanics unnecessarily complicated and frustrating.

    Glad to see I'm not alone on this. I didn't even run the dungeon you mention, but you got me hyped.

    now it's like all just dumb twitch reflex or memorize the full patterns, otherwise keep screeching with your high ping.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    ElinLove wrote: »
    Heck nowadays I've seen Priest kicks from Thaumetal Refinery NORMAL MODE cause "not a mystic.
    It's sad but there's a collective mentality out there that seem to dictate that the only way to play a game is "professionally" as if your life depended on it or as if a check arrived on your mail any time you did a 5 star dungeon (though sure, SOME people do get paid for this, but that's a hard minority). There's also the stuff about the end game structure in Tera that pushes try hard players to deal with dungeons as fast as they can, and for that, they will demand the whole party to play by their rules. So "relaxed" doesn't exist in LFG nor IM much. Gotta make those parties yourself. I hate the mentality myself, but it is what it is.

    If end game was made in a way that didn't move players of higher tier to do low tier stuff, then we would see people sticking to the dungeon tier they could manage. But that also has it's connotations and detractors, and a big change is needed. Not just label Shattered Fleet off limits to people at 439+. It's not THAT simple.
  • I want SS back for its epic boss music.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    I want SS back for its epic boss music.

    Agreed, that was a dungeon that imerse you in the role becasue of the music, a good job made for those who composed it.
  • Nopi wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    canikizu wrote: »
    People are just looking at it through nostalgic glass. They brought back WH before, and it was not fun. It took forever to find a raid, and the dungeon was too easy compared to today's standard. By today's standard, those dungeons are so easy and slow. Have you guys seen MCHM Hard Mode on youtube?

    Why do people want these dungeons to come back? Isn't it better to let them remain as a good memory than to come back and become a joke?

    I think all dungeons should be avaliable for everyone to play them, and all HM versions should be revamped to meet the actual season skill cap.

    I think what he meant was the machanics themselves. He's right in saying that even if we buff the attack and defense values of a dungeon, once it's mechanics are learned for long by players, the whole experience becomes less impressive. Sure, there are new players who haven't done it when they were a thing, but with so much info about them and quite a few veterants still at play, the magic would fade much faster. So the correct forwards "for the player" mentality would be to ask devs to create more new content instead of asking them to slap a paint coat to older stuff.

    yes, yes, I know, it costs a lot more to create new content. I've seen the argument so many times so I know where some people will try to drive this down from. Still, we are here in a forum where we can toss ideas around, and maybe, JUSt maybe, in a royal epic struck of luck, BHS decides to check for an idea here, and all they see is too much of "bring old stuff back and we will keep tossing our money to our screens your way" and none of "give us new content", guess what would they do. Now, not saying we can't ask for old content either as I myself would like to see some remakes, but we have to keep the balance on what we can offer as suggestions. Both new and old.

    ... I'm starting to not make sense, but whatevs...

    Sure it cost money to make new content, but here is another point... WHY THE [filtered] WOULD YOU REMOVE CONTENT? They constantly remove more than they add in tera.
  • NopiNopi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Sure it cost money to make new content, but here is another point... WHY THE [filtered] WOULD YOU REMOVE CONTENT? They constantly remove more than they add in tera.

    While some of us won't agree on the removal of content, I suppose it's along the same lines about the removal of cosmetics to the cash shop. To re-rotate stuff eventually and not have everyone having everything and doing everything at the same time. It's a trick to try and give the game a sort of a coat of paint once in awhile, even though you and me know it's the same paint from some time ago. Also, let's remember that more stuff at the same time (in both cosmetics and content) being maintained might mean more bugs to squash and all the upkeep all those things entail, since after all, there is also a spending top for how many resources BHS and it's publishers can commit to.
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nopi wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    canikizu wrote: »
    People are just looking at it through nostalgic glass. They brought back WH before, and it was not fun. It took forever to find a raid, and the dungeon was too easy compared to today's standard. By today's standard, those dungeons are so easy and slow. Have you guys seen MCHM Hard Mode on youtube?

    Why do people want these dungeons to come back? Isn't it better to let them remain as a good memory than to come back and become a joke?

    I think all dungeons should be avaliable for everyone to play them, and all HM versions should be revamped to meet the actual season skill cap.

    I think what he meant was the machanics themselves. He's right in saying that even if we buff the attack and defense values of a dungeon, once it's mechanics are learned for long by players, the whole experience becomes less impressive. Sure, there are new players who haven't done it when they were a thing, but with so much info about them and quite a few veterants still at play, the magic would fade much faster. So the correct forwards "for the player" mentality would be to ask devs to create more new content instead of asking them to slap a paint coat to older stuff.

    yes, yes, I know, it costs a lot more to create new content. I've seen the argument so many times so I know where some people will try to drive this down from. Still, we are here in a forum where we can toss ideas around, and maybe, JUSt maybe, in a royal epic struck of luck, BHS decides to check for an idea here, and all they see is too much of "bring old stuff back and we will keep tossing our money to our screens your way" and none of "give us new content", guess what would they do. Now, not saying we can't ask for old content either as I myself would like to see some remakes, but we have to keep the balance on what we can offer as suggestions. Both new and old.

    ... I'm starting to not make sense, but whatevs...

    Sure it cost money to make new content, but here is another point... WHY THE [filtered] WOULD YOU REMOVE CONTENT? They constantly remove more than they add in tera.

    I would attribute this to having a rotation that doesn't let people burn out on one single dungeon, running it all the time. Even if you did let all dungeons open, people would still flock to one only and grind that to death as they do now. At least now they get tired of it, then it goes out, another old one they grinded till death comes back, they've already taken enough of a break from it, they remember it with fond memories for a while and the cycle repeats and it feels fresh every time. Also if you would let all others open instead, it would just make a ton of unused content with people spread between queues and LFGs. I honestly don't think the later is the biggest problem, rather the former.

    That obviously is not objectively true, or specially true for everyone, but it is a strategy that might work for many, hopefully most.
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