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loots boxes declared games of chance in Belgium

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Comments

  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Zalm wrote: »
    You get coke. If you buy a coke, you get coke. As you even said, its EXTRA.

    And also, how many games were investigated, how many were given a pass, how many were shot down, and how many games overall have loot boxes are all completely different numbers.

    How many games were investigated? 10

    How many were given a pass? 7 (70% of the games investigated)

    How many were shut dowwn? 0

    How many games overal have loot boxes? hundred of games I know and probably thousand of games if we count cellphone games.

    Now as you see they didn't ban lootboxes from all games, they just banned 3 games from using them and that means lootboxes are not ilegal but the way those 3 games were using them. Thing that it seems you can't understand because you lack of knowledge of what happened even when I gave a link for anyone to read about one of the autorities that game his veredict.
    Tera, as far as i am aware, didnt get investigated. So as far as we can tell, it might have ended up with tera being banned. So even understanding the criteria, it means nothing since we dont know their ruling for each individual games lootbox. And until we do, we have to assume they all are until noted.

    And dont give me any crap about how we should actually consider them fine. If you are unaware of a new road having a speed limit, should you consider it fine to drive 200+ on it? No. you should consider it having roughly the same rule snd restrictions as other, nearby and similar roads. Same goes with loot boxes.

    First you said to not asume and now you end your same post asuming xD

    They made know the criteria they used to ban those games from using their lootboxes, 10 were investigated and only 3 were found to be using ilegal lootboxes, so this make clear that not all lootboxes are ilegal and not all lootboxes are considered as gambling.

    If you don't like to read and only are trying to guess the context of what happened because the tittle of that note then its obvious why you are spiting this non-sense of lootboxes being gambling and being ilegal.

    And about lootboxes, if you dont like to read obviously you wont read this but I will put this anyway
    A loot box guaranteed to contain 400 Metamorphic Emblems. May also contain...

    All lootboxes main item is a enchanting material and you get a bonus from several kind of items, so you get what you paid for.
  • I’m no fan of the loot boxes. However they only guarantee one certain thing you pay for and an additional reward on top of it. The rewards are listed in the shop as well. If ppl want to try their luck on them it’s their choice. If not, you can use ingame gold to buy them from the broker. If the boxes gave nothing of value it would be a waste yeah, but the boxes actually give quite an amount of useful things that you can sell on broker or use yourself. The value of the loot box itself isn’t bad. You may not get the big reward you wanted but you got what you payed for.

    It may be difficult for the ppl who have trouble with gambling, but they sell what they advertise. Ppl just gotta start reading what they buy. And stop using so much money on them and rather buy the item on broker
  • ZalmZalm ✭✭✭
    I never said not to assume, i said to assume one way, a more safe route, and nit another, a more dangerous route.

    The safe route is to assume all lootboxes are illegal until they are cleared to be not gambling.

    The dangerous route is to assume any lootbox is safe, and just deal with any crimes discovered later.
  • NemmarNemmar ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    Zalm wrote: »
    You get coke. If you buy a coke, you get coke. As you even said, its EXTRA.

    And also, how many games were investigated, how many were given a pass, how many were shot down, and how many games overall have loot boxes are all completely different numbers.

    How many games were investigated? 10

    How many were given a pass? 7 (70% of the games investigated)

    How many were shut dowwn? 0

    How many games overal have loot boxes? hundred of games I know and probably thousand of games if we count cellphone games.

    Now as you see they didn't ban lootboxes from all games, they just banned 3 games from using them and that means lootboxes are not ilegal but the way those 3 games were using them. Thing that it seems you can't understand because you lack of knowledge of what happened even when I gave a link for anyone to read about one of the autorities that game his veredict.r.

    Stop lying! Have some shame! Are you in bed with those people or something?

    https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/268317-belgium-decides-loot-boxes-are-illegal-gambling

    5 games were investigated in belgium. 1 had it's loot boxes removed, wich was battlefront. The other 4 were dictated gambling.

    That is 100%! Cause we all know Battlefront 2 was aswell.

    The Netherlands one:
    https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/267994-the-netherlands-declares-some-loot-boxes-illegal-warns-developers-to-modify-them
    Maybe you think this one will save you? Nope!

    4 of the 10 were outright banned because they can be traded with real money. What about the other 60% you ask, as your foolish tirade continues in the defense of the undefensable.
    They were all at fault aswell! Again it's 100%!

    Here is the quote for you misguided one:

    "Six of the ten loot boxes that were studied do not contravene the law. In these games, there is no question of in-game goods with a market value and they therefore do not satisfy the definition of a prize under Article 1 of the Betting and Gaming Act. As these loot boxes could nevertheless foster the development of addiction, these games are at odds with the objective of preventing addiction to organized games as much as possible."


    I already told you you are wrong. Stop! Lootboxes are 100% gambling. This is obvious to everyone. No one is getting away scott free.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Nemmar wrote: »
    "Six of the ten loot boxes that were studied do not contravene the law."


    I already told you you are wrong. Stop! Lootboxes are 100% gambling. This is obvious to everyone. No one is getting away scott free.

    You quoted something that give me the reason, Thank You, you already got contradicted by you with your own post.

    Thak You for showing that those authorities said not all lootboxes are gambling. Pretty good way to contradict yourself your "100%".
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Zalm wrote: »
    I never said not to assume, i said to assume one way, a more safe route, and nit another, a more dangerous route.

    The safe route is to assume all lootboxes are illegal until they are cleared to be not gambling.

    The dangerous route is to assume any lootbox is safe, and just deal with any crimes discovered later.

    Thank you for the clarification, then I had nothing to discuss with you as I already said that not all lootboxes are gambling and never said all lootboxes aren't gabling. Meaning I never asumed 100% of the lootboxes are free of gambling elements.
  • In the end, it's pointless to debate whether it is or isn't gambling. When EME and other video game companies are required by law to change their practices, they'll either a) change their practices, or b) get out of the jurisdictions that forbid their practices. Until they're required to do something, they probably won't -- no matter how much anyone here thinks they should. Right now they're not being required to do anything, though I'm sure they're watching to see what happens.
  • ZalmZalm ✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Wow, idiot. After bring proven wrong, do you even understand whst was posted? I gues not. I rifled through those articles. The lootboxes are considered gambling, some didnt want to be regulqted, some were ok with regulations. They were ALL found to be gambling

    Not you counter, elin
  • ElinUsagi wrote: »
    Nemmar wrote: »
    "Six of the ten loot boxes that were studied do not contravene the law."


    I already told you you are wrong. Stop! Lootboxes are 100% gambling. This is obvious to everyone. No one is getting away scott free.

    You quoted something that give me the reason, Thank You, you already got contradicted by you with your own post.

    Thak You for showing that those authorities said not all lootboxes are gambling. Pretty good way to contradict yourself your "100%".

    Obviously the clarification went right through your head.


    Did you notice the part where it said they were at odds? Aka NOT fine?

    Reading is hard yo!
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Nemmar wrote: »
    Reading is hard yo!
    Zalm wrote: »
    Wow, idiot. After bring proven wrong, do you even understand whst was posted? I gues not. I rifled through those articles. The lootboxes are considered gambling, some didnt want to be regulqted, some were ok with regulations. They were ALL found to be gambling

    Not you counter, elin
    "Six of the ten loot boxes that were studied DO NOT CONTRAVENE THE LAW."

    Now, you need to get told what NOT CONTRAVENE THE LAW means?

    If all loot boxes were ilegal then the other lootboxes games that they check would be also banned however they didnt do that and they didnt ban lootboxes from all games.

    Hard to understand? LoL
  • NemmarNemmar ✭✭
    edited April 2018
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    Nemmar wrote: »
    Reading is hard yo!
    Zalm wrote: »
    Wow, idiot. After bring proven wrong, do you even understand whst was posted? I gues not. I rifled through those articles. The lootboxes are considered gambling, some didnt want to be regulqted, some were ok with regulations. They were ALL found to be gambling

    Not you counter, elin
    "Six of the ten loot boxes that were studied DO NOT CONTRAVENE THE LAW."

    As these loot boxes could nevertheless foster the development of addiction, these games are at odds with the objective of preventing addiction to organized games as much as possible.

    Gambling and illegal are different terms. I know.. you didn't bother to learn the definition, just as you didn't bother to read any of the studies before spouting your nonsense.

    Here, i will explain to the simple minded. The illegal ones have action immediatly taken against them. The not outright illegal ones will go through regulation. I know, it's complicated for you.
    They are ALL gambling!
  • ZalmZalm ✭✭✭
    These games are at odds with the objective of preventing addiction to organized gsmes as much as possible
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Nemmar wrote: »
    Gambling and illegal are different terms. I know.. you didn't bother to learn the definition, just as you didn't bother to read any of the studies before spouting your nonsense.

    Here, i will explain to the simple minded. The illegal ones have action immediatly taken against them. The not outright illegal ones will go through regulation. I know, it's complicated for you.
    They are ALL gambling!
    Nemmar wrote: »
    I'm sorry, wich law are you talking about? Because we got 2 EU countries saying it's ILLEGAL.

    Guess what? Game companies don't have permits. They are trying to sneak by unregulated gambling. Thus illegal.

    So... yeah, stop defending the perpetrators of a crime.
    "Six of the ten loot boxes that were studied DO NOT CONTRAVENE THE LAW."

    I am glad to remind you what you posted. I the answer is the same.

    First you argued they all were ilegal, now you try to change what you meant?

    The true is that autorities have dictated NOT ALL LOTBOXES ARE ILEGAL.
  • ZalmZalm ✭✭✭
    Gambling is illegal for 3 main reasons.

    1. It can be an income without taxation
    2. It is addicting
    3. It can be rigged.

    Any legalized gambling is heavily engorced and restricted to prevent these three things.

    1. Taxing winning over a certain threshold.
    2. Keeping tabs on individuals time and money spent while gambling to minimize addictions.
    3. Ensuring no unfair % losses thtough extensive testing and regulations.

    If a lootbox does not conform to these standards, INCLUDING PROPER TAXATION, it should be considered illegal. Tera foes not conform to these as they are not taxed, they are not regulated to be fair, they do not keep up with any addiction based organization(though winnings from the user might not need to be taxed), and until they are certified to NOT be gambling, both seller, and buyer, are both at risk for fines and criminal charges.

    BOTH are at risk because it is illegal to run, or participate in illegal gambling.

    So as far as i am concerned, until they are given an exemption, in order to no be considered a criminal in this aspect, i do not, nor will i ever ellicit, the purchase of online lootboxes. Then again, i have never played the lootbox game because i dont gamble like idiots do.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 2018
    Zalm wrote: »
    Gambling is illegal for 3 main reasons.

    1. It can be an income without taxation
    2. It is addicting
    3. It can be rigged.

    Any legalized gambling is heavily engorced and restricted to prevent these three things.

    1. Taxing winning over a certain threshold.
    2. Keeping tabs on individuals time and money spent while gambling to minimize addictions.
    3. Ensuring no unfair % losses thtough extensive testing and regulations.

    If a lootbox does not conform to these standards, INCLUDING PROPER TAXATION, it should be considered illegal. Tera foes not conform to these as they are not taxed, they are not regulated to be fair, they do not keep up with any addiction based organization(though winnings from the user might not need to be taxed), and until they are certified to NOT be gambling, both seller, and buyer, are both at risk for fines and criminal charges.

    BOTH are at risk because it is illegal to run, or participate in illegal gambling.

    So as far as i am concerned, until they are given an exemption, in order to no be considered a criminal in this aspect, i do not, nor will i ever ellicit, the purchase of online lootboxes. Then again, i have never played the lootbox game because i dont gamble like idiots do.

    If you are playing a game from a company that you claim to be criminals then you are not better. however those autorities didnt claim all lootboxes to be ilegal or a criminal practice.

    "Six of the ten loot boxes that were studied DO NOT CONTRAVENE THE LAW."

    Your own autorities said that, glad to see you have sane pleople over there and not paranoid folks that make a criminal of anyone because they had a bad day wasting their money on useless games.
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