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Stop Crying And Say P2W

I read this discussion
https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/25663/anniversary-foot-steps-and-scarf-discussion/p1
and I decided to open this discussion because this story is repeated every time..
you make me laugh, really ... I think you are complaining and you do not know what it is "Pay2Win". in this free game you can get pretty much everything without spending real money, and keep complaining always for everything is p2w ... a player makes stormcry + 7 p2w, a player opens a loot box and get dragon p2w ... but you in the game can you get these things without spending real money? the game allows you to get all the things in the game with gold? YESSS, you can get elite status, loot box, mount 2.0, cosmetic, stormcry + 7, you can get the same things by buying them in the game with gold, you can buy emp through a player and pay with gold ... so stop always cry, you can get the same things ... those who pay with real money get it faster and that's right, because it supports eme / bh servers and gives you the chance not to use real money, but to buy emp with the gold ... I currently have about 1kk gold and about 2kk of items to sell and not, I have never spent real money because I do not have the chance to do it, but I'm happy and thank other people buy emp and sell it in the game for gold ... and what I have for many players is a lot, for other players it is not so much, it takes some time to get them? yes but it depends on you, how long you play and how much you play, if you want everything immediately, it's not fun

STOP CRYYY
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Comments

  • ZoknahalZoknahal ✭✭✭✭✭
    While i do agree that a part of our community thinks that TERA went P2W already, I also have to understand why the community spoke out against the Scarfs having stats. In a way, altho is not confirmed that it could happen, nor we can confirm it, introducing the 3rd cosmetic item into the game with stats (the first one was innerwear and the 2nd one Crit mounts), regardless of what kind of stat it is, it would be seen as "Selling Power" Which is the definition of P2W. Players wanted to avoid this from happening and gave some fair and early warnings of what this could sprout.

    Indeed, it is a somewhat shame that the original scarfs that had stats, wont be distributed anymore since EME acted upon the feedback they got from players, but it is a move for the best of all of us.

    Should the Scarfs remained with stats and openly distributed in game and through the shop, It would most likely create a massive salt rush among the players who could not get their hands on them, and eventually in the future, be used as yet another way to cast aside players who do not have that extra 600HP and 200MP.

    I do agree with you OP, that the community cries a bit too much about anything, i have seen it happen time and time again through my years of playing TERA, but i also understand their reasons for acting this way. Should we do not act, the game will become indeed P2W in the future, and i dont mean P2W as in, pay to progress faster, i mean the real meaning of P2W: Pay money to gain an unfair advantage over free players that cannot gain that advantage too should they do not throw some dollars.
  • totally agree. if u want something just grind for it. that's the fun of the grindings. the item u want wont fall from the sky just because u said it. well maybe it does if u find a suggar daddy :thonking:
    u literally can get everything just by playing. so yeah.
    STOP CRYYY
  • The core of the argument against the scarves has nothing to do with the scarves themselves being P2W or not but rather the precedent that adding stats onto costumes would have set.

    While it's not like the scarves themselves had some sort of insane stats that were game breaking, allowing something minor like a back accessory with small stats would have meant players weren't against having stats on cosmetic items. That opens the door for consideration of more significant stats on more significant cosmetic items like helmets/weapons/costumes.

    It's not like this is some crazy baseless claim either. Hell, to give an example from a game I've personally played, Elsword. Originally on release cosmetic items did have stats, however they were absolutely minor and pretty much insignificant. Skip ahead a few years to current day, costume sets obtained via gacha systems give pretty huge stat bonuses and effects ranging up to a full 10-20%+ damage increase by having the sets.

    Disregarding the issue of potential escalation, this thread seems kind of silly in its own right. Plenty of people had really good arguments as to why they didn't want the inclusion of stats on cosmetic items, but there's no real argument or any points made towards keeping the stats.
    It seems pointless making a thread to complain about players taking a stance, and actually getting the company to change something, when there was no counterpoint.
  • P2WP2W ✭✭✭
    Zoknahal wrote: »
    While i do agree that a part of our community thinks that TERA went P2W already, I also have to understand why the community spoke out against the Scarfs having stats. In a way, altho is not confirmed that it could happen, nor we can confirm it, introducing the 3rd cosmetic item into the game with stats (the first one was innerwear and the 2nd one Crit mounts), regardless of what kind of stat it is, it would be seen as "Selling Power" Which is the definition of P2W. Players wanted to avoid this from happening and gave some fair and early warnings of what this could sprout.

    Indeed, it is a somewhat shame that the original scarfs that had stats, wont be distributed anymore since EME acted upon the feedback they got from players, but it is a move for the best of all of us.

    Should the Scarfs remained with stats and openly distributed in game and through the shop, It would most likely create a massive salt rush among the players who could not get their hands on them, and eventually in the future, be used as yet another way to cast aside players who do not have that extra 600HP and 200MP.

    I do agree with you OP, that the community cries a bit too much about anything, i have seen it happen time and time again through my years of playing TERA, but i also understand their reasons for acting this way. Should we do not act, the game will become indeed P2W in the future, and i dont mean P2W as in, pay to progress faster, i mean the real meaning of P2W: Pay money to gain an unfair advantage over free players that cannot gain that advantage too should they do not throw some dollars.

    Free players can get best innerwear (+12power or +24 crit) using goldfingers and the 1.5 crit mounts using scales. Now the 2.0 crit mounts are somewhat pay2win becasue free players can't get them without spending real money unless they buy it from trade broker. As long as there is a way for free players to get the items, then it's not p2w.
  • MrYamaguchiMrYamaguchi ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    There is a link between IRL money and in-game wealth. The game is P2W. There is no debate.
    xXshiroeXx wrote: »
    you can buy emp through a player and pay with gold

    This is what makes a game P2W.

    This is the entire driving force behind the monetization of this game. Do you think people would be buying and selling Elite Vouchers and costumes if it didn't directly translate into in-game currency and thus gear?
  • MidokuPastaMidokuPasta ✭✭✭✭
    I am the original person to post that threat I just wanted to know if there would be perm versions of the steps everyone else carried it somewhere else.
  • LapomkoLapomko ✭✭✭
    The boundary between Pay for convenience and Pay to win is very vague for games like this. Most of Korean MMORPG have cashshop items that can be bought from other players but they still get called P2W due to the time required to farm ingame currency to buy them.
    A person who buys emp and sell it directly will save alot of time to enchant his gear unlike a farmer who has to give up his soul by doing it non stop maybe needing a visit to the mental institute to cleanse his mind from the atrocious strict farming schedule grind.
  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    xXshiroeXx wrote: »
    I read this discussion
    https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/25663/anniversary-foot-steps-and-scarf-discussion/p1
    and I decided to open this discussion because this story is repeated every time..
    you make me laugh, really ... I think you are complaining and you do not know what it is "Pay2Win". in this free game you can get pretty much everything without spending real money, and keep complaining always for everything is p2w ... a player makes stormcry + 7 p2w, a player opens a loot box and get dragon p2w ... but you in the game can you get these things without spending real money? the game allows you to get all the things in the game with gold? YESSS, you can get elite status, loot box, mount 2.0, cosmetic, stormcry + 7, you can get the same things by buying them in the game with gold, you can buy emp through a player and pay with gold ... so stop always cry, you can get the same things ... those who pay with real money get it faster and that's right, because it supports eme / bh servers and gives you the chance not to use real money, but to buy emp with the gold ... I currently have about 1kk gold and about 2kk of items to sell and not, I have never spent real money because I do not have the chance to do it, but I'm happy and thank other people buy emp and sell it in the game for gold ... and what I have for many players is a lot, for other players it is not so much, it takes some time to get them? yes but it depends on you, how long you play and how much you play, if you want everything immediately, it's not fun

    STOP CRYYY

    I totally agree. I also like how the complainers say "The "community" has spoken." when only about 5 people really had a problem with the scarves. No, the community hasn't spoken, only a couple of elites that are having tantrums that they'd need to wear a scarf to have "the elitist most highest armor stats in the game". Heaven forbid a low leveled player be able to get a purple scarf with some low stats in it. OMG, the sky is falling!

    I think I really see the whole problem with why things for this game are going the way they are. You can't let people constantly dictate what you will or will not do. Especially, when you're only listening to the people that aren't going to go anywhere else no matter what you do.

    The more I see the whole attitude where people that complain the most about "you're ruining the economy" or "stop giving free stuff to unworthy players" are listened to the more I get it.
  • P2WP2W ✭✭✭
    Lapomko wrote: »
    The boundary between Pay for convenience and Pay to win is very vague for games like this. Most of Korean MMORPG have cashshop items that can be bought from other players but they still get called P2W due to the time required to farm ingame currency to buy them.
    A person who buys emp and sell it directly will save alot of time to enchant his gear unlike a farmer who has to give up his soul by doing it non stop maybe needing a visit to the mental institute to cleanse his mind from the atrocious strict farming schedule grind.

    With the current revamp, paying doesn't save much time enchanting vs a non-paying player because the enchanting mats are non-tradable. So you would still have grind for the mats and gear exp. You could, in theory, buy all your mats using entropic tokens and skip the gear exp, but you would be spending a lot and you're probably better off buying a liberated gear from someone.
  • Agree, TERA is about the least P2W MMO I've played and people who think it is P2W haven't had the displeasure of playing an actual P2W MMO.
  • Agree, TERA is about the least P2W MMO I've played and people who think it is P2W haven't had the displeasure of playing an actual P2W MMO.

    People who say TERA is p2w have never played BDO or Archeage. I mean sure in every mmo you can buy things with real money. Hell in Blade and Soul you can buy gold directly which sounds very p2w. Only reason its not is because you still need to grind so many dungeons to get the core mats. People selling cosmetics to get in game gold is just convenient way to make a lot of money quickly and I have no issues with it. Because that still person still has to craft other mats and run dungeons to gear up. And it's not even hard to gear nowadays. If you cap out on all of your vanguards (resetting as elite) you can get at least 1 or two pieces of stormcry gear (possibly full set).
  • LapomkoLapomko ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    P2W wrote: »
    Lapomko wrote: »
    The boundary between Pay for convenience and Pay to win is very vague for games like this. Most of Korean MMORPG have cashshop items that can be bought from other players but they still get called P2W due to the time required to farm ingame currency to buy them.
    A person who buys emp and sell it directly will save alot of time to enchant his gear unlike a farmer who has to give up his soul by doing it non stop maybe needing a visit to the mental institute to cleanse his mind from the atrocious strict farming schedule grind.

    With the current revamp, paying doesn't save much time enchanting vs a non-paying player because the enchanting mats are non-tradable. So you would still have grind for the mats and gear exp. You could, in theory, buy all your mats using entropic tokens and skip the gear exp, but you would be spending a lot and you're probably better off buying a liberated gear from someone.

    And yet again that saves alot of time because he may have full item exp and mats but not the gold for gems and darics/plates to enchant his gear. I've bought emp off alot of people that were desperate to +9 their gear.

    People that call this game p2w know the pain of farming to get +9/8 set with full entropy jewelry, 2.0 crit mount and 24crit/12pow innerwear.
  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭
    There is a link between IRL money and in-game wealth. The game is P2W. There is no debate.
    xXshiroeXx wrote: »
    you can buy emp through a player and pay with gold

    This is what makes a game P2W.

    This is the entire driving force behind the monetization of this game. Do you think people would be buying and selling Elite Vouchers and costumes if it didn't directly translate into in-game currency and thus gear?

    Want Tera to no longer be P2W? Then, all trading must stop. That means no more brokerage as well. All games with any type of brokerage can be used as P2W.
  • HLK76PFWXTHLK76PFWXT ✭✭✭
    I think that the majority of players were afraid that this scarf with stats lesser stats will create a precedent ending up sometimes in the future with power/crit and what else .. Also, we will get sooner or later the exarch mask but with some stats which will be obtainable from a dungeon.. So.. We are kinda heading towards more and more cosmetics with stats.

    Regardless, i have to say that right now we have so many events and so many cool things in game that i do not mind by any means with some p2w.. Actually, if some p2w is needed to make Tera as good as it is now then i am up for it ( might as well use my own money to show some support even though i am a farmer xD ).

    Plus, most of the so called p2w items can be bought with gold and this is definitely a plus for the non spenders that can earn some very nice and useful items without actually having to spend real money.


    p.s. i would be worried if some cash shop items would not be tradeable but that is not case
  • LapomkoLapomko ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    HLK76PFWXT wrote: »
    I think that the majority of players were afraid that this scarf with stats lesser stats will create a precedent ending up sometimes in the future with power/crit and what else .. Also, we will get sooner or later the exarch mask but with some stats which will be obtainable from a dungeon.. So.. We are kinda heading towards more and more cosmetics with stats.

    Regardless, i have to say that right now we have so many events and so many cool things in game that i do not mind by any means with some p2w.. Actually, if some p2w is needed to make Tera as good as it is now then i am up for it ( might as well use my own money to show some support even though i am a farmer xD ).

    Plus, most of the so called p2w items can be bought with gold and this is definitely a plus for the non spenders that can earn some very nice and useful items without actually having to spend real money.


    p.s. i would be worried if some cash shop items would not be tradeable but that is not case

    I would be worried because the only way to for free players to acquire them is hand over insane amount of gold if they give essential advantage like the 2.0 crit mount which goes around 600k on my server.
This discussion has been closed.