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Priests getting massive contribution on Guardian Missions

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  • Vishmitar wrote: »
    Why did player A in scenario 1 get 40k less contribution than player A in scenario 2 if they both did 100% of the bird killing, curious?

    That should be obvious? Player A was a DPS in Scenario A, but a Priest in Scenario B. Priests do gain increased contribution per damage dealt, so for the same amount of damage a Priest will gain approximately 35% more contribution.
    The tests are flawed though as there's no competition between player A and B. Naturally, if a priest solos a guardian (or part of the event--birds) it gets 100% of the contribution and 100% of the reward same as any other class. The zero sum part comes in when the priest is in competition with another player. If the priest can do 70% of the contribution during the encounter, they have placed a ceiling on the other player at 30%, netting fewer points and fewer boxes. Are you claiming there's no correlation between contribution % and points earned towards boxes? Or no correlation between damage dealt and contribution? Or both?

    That's the thing though. There's no way to indicate "competition" or calculate for it. In both scenario's, both players did the exact same damage to the same health pool. The same test could have been done with each player doing exactly 50% of the Fimbrilisks HP and it would have been for all intents and purposes the same test.

    Let me put it this way:

    The contribution you gain is based off damage dealt. If a DPS deals 100M damage, they gain 100k points (not accurate, but an example). If a Priest deals 100M damage, they gain 135k points.

    However, because it's based off damage dealt, and the boss's HP total is unaffected.
    This means in a scenario where the boss has 200M HP, and the DPS and Priest both deal 100M damage, the DPS gains 100k points, the Priest 135k, for a total of 235k points.
    However in a scenario where the boss has 200M HP, but there are 2 DPS players and no Priest, and both DPS deal 100M damage, both DPS gain 100k points, for a total of 200k points.
    Similarly in a scenario where the boss has 200M HP, but there are 2 Priests, both Priests deal 100M damage, both Priests gain 135k points, for a total of 270k points.

    The above affects the contribution chart, but doesn't actually affect the individual players.

    There's no total points, only total HP to be converted into points by the class determined algorithm. So you can't limit another player's points by gaining more points yourself, only by dealing more damage. However if your class has a better ratio of damage to points, like Priest, you can earn the same points with less damage, or more points with equal damage.
  • Yeah, priest is usually a class I do guardians with, and anyone that isn't as geared as I am won't be able to match me in contribution.

    Once they got the same gear, though, they usually come out on top.
  • LaVolpiLaVolpi ✭✭
    Does it really matter tho? I havent really done many GL missions so maybe I'm missing the point as to why this is a problem.
  • GatokatzenGatokatzen ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the tip xd is time to get my priedt in to storm +0 and steal those boxes.
    Hail mystic and priest best classes
  • StitchedSoulStitchedSoul ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    Envy is the worst quality.


    I feel fine with priests being in top while do GL with archer. But for some ppl "good" its not when you're good, for some ppl "good" its when someone's bad.
  • MForAllMForAll ✭✭
    Typically I get 11-13 boxes per GM on DPS, which is somewhat equal to what I usually get on healers. How fast your boxes fill doesn't (at least to my knowledge) correlate to your contribution.
  • JasonTERAJasonTERA ✭✭✭
    Priest is overpower'ed in guardian mission. But it is not 2-3 times though. SC+0 priest can compete with fully geared dps/tank.

    But anyway.. there have been several nerfs on both healers' guardian contribution in KTERA. So it will be fixed soon.
  • PartyblastPartyblast ✭✭✭✭
    Tfw I can finally DPS Priest and be rewarded for it so I actually enjoy doing solo content on my priest (which is my main) and people complain.

    Nobody can have nice things apparently.
    JasonTERA wrote: »
    Priest is overpower'ed in guardian mission. But it is not 2-3 times though. SC+0 priest can compete with fully geared dps/tank.

    But anyway.. there have been several nerfs on both healers' guardian contribution in KTERA. So it will be fixed soon.

    and as Jason pointed out yea healers have already been nerfed multiple times, so congratulations healers aren't worth jack in solo content again yay.
  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭
    > @Partyblast said:
    > Tfw I can finally DPS Priest and be rewarded for it so I actually enjoy doing solo content on my priest (which is my main) and people complain.
    >
    > Nobody can have nice things apparently.
    > JasonTERA wrote: »
    >
    > Priest is overpower'ed in guardian mission. But it is not 2-3 times though. SC+0 priest can compete with fully geared dps/tank.
    >
    > But anyway.. there have been several nerfs on both healers' guardian contribution in KTERA. So it will be fixed soon.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > and as Jason pointed out yea healers have already been nerfed multiple times, so congratulations healers aren't worth jack in solo content again yay.

    Stop having more contribution it hurts my ego reeeeee
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    Vishmitar wrote: »
    @LagIncarnate As far as I can tell it is a zero-sum system, and there will be winners and losers in such a system; which is fine when things are relatively in balance, but that's currently not the case and priest is a clear outlier.

    Except with some short testing I can say that's not how it works. Two quick tests proved pretty evidently that the amount of contribution points is based on an algorithm that converts a % of damage dealt into contribution points which varies based on class.

    Two simple tests, two players only participating in the guardian mission. Player A, the variable, and Player B, the control. Damage was controlled by having the players kill different groups of mobs, so that each player did the the same amount of damage each time.

    Scenario 1:
    Player A is a DPS class. Player B is a DPS class. Both players within range of the guardian mission mobs at all times.
    Player A kills Birds at Fimbrilisk, gains 108,995 contribution points.
    Player B kills Elite Orcans at Fimbrilisk, gains 145,593 contribution points.

    Scenario 2:
    Player A is a Priest. Player B is a DPS class. Both players within range of the guardian mission mobs at all times.
    Player A kills birds at Fimbrilisk, gains 147,324 contribution points.
    Player B kills Elite Orcans at Fimbrilisk, gains 146,330 contribution points.

    The variance in the control's (Player B) score of <1k is likely due to the skill in the second test used to finish the mobs off being Shining Crescent.

    Despite variance in the contribution chart, Player B, the control, achieved almost identical score in both tests. The Priest being present did not have any affect on the overall contribution earned by Player B.

    If you'd like to run some tests of your own and come back with proof that Priests overtuned scoring impacts the scores of other players participating in GL then I'd be happy to reconsider my stance as that would be detrimental to the majority of players. Otherwise however, as it currently stands the only thing that Priests do to other players is damage their pride, not their efficiency.

    Your test does show something:

    As of this patch, Healers get a bonus modifier of about 35% extra. So basically for every point of damage done by a healer, the weightage is counted as 1.3x instead of 1.0.

    In supposed solo content where the numbers aren't that far off, priests in general get more points off damage. And the damage weightage is from what I have seen pretty high. The more players there are, the more obvious the hidden buff BHS gives to healers in this content. You can occasionally see FROSTMETAL priests topping the charts against Stormcry dps, and it isn't the DPS's fault they are behind, it is just the innate buff healers get when hitting monsters in OW.

    I am quite sure these numbers are higher prior to awakening, hence the phenomenon that healers start to get fewer boxes after the patch over time despite doing more damage.
  • HLK76PFWXTHLK76PFWXT ✭✭✭
    edited May 2018
    CornishRex wrote: »
    Priests were crazy pre apex, I could earn 15 boxes in 10 mins. Now they nerfed it and usually I can earn 10-12 max. If a priest is getting 30% more than you it just means you're badly geared and are doing bad dps. Good dps catch up to me easily and I'm often neck a neck with them, but when there's tons of twist/frost players I'll easily leave them in the dust on my +8 sc priest lol

    This is exactly my own experience.

    I have a +7SC priest with smart dps dyads/strong canephora/bulgogi good/noctenium infusion (30min one) plus keen II etchings on jewelry and dedicated dps rolls on weapon/chest plus other things. In other words, my priest is pretty well done for guardians besides pvp/dungeons and i do not believe that is wrong if i am on pair with other dps classes as long as i am geared myself.
    Vishmitar wrote: »
    Why did player A in scenario 1 get 40k less contribution than player A in scenario 2 if they both did 100% of the bird killing, curious?

    The tests are flawed though as there's no competition between player A and B. Naturally, if a priest solos a guardian (or part of the event--birds) it gets 100% of the contribution and 100% of the reward same as any other class. The zero sum part comes in when the priest is in competition with another player. If the priest can do 70% of the contribution during the encounter, they have placed a ceiling on the other player at 30%, netting fewer points and fewer boxes. Are you claiming there's no correlation between contribution % and points earned towards boxes? Or no correlation between damage dealt and contribution? Or both?

    The reason as of why priests do better at "birds" is because they have this skill called Edict of Judgment where they get 100% back crit for 20sec ( most of the other classes do not get to back crit that much because the birds move so much ) with improved damage bonus and reduced cooldown so it is obvious that they are going to have a better start .. But this is only a burst skill that has a long cooldown and if you look at the overall boss fight then you will see that the priest is actually on pair with other classes that have equivalent gear.

    If you are a dps class and you have twistshard/frostmetal with wrong weapon rolls and even without using proper crystalt then expect to have a "healer" with stormcry weapon doing better than you ( i am actually very curious to see your dps setup ). Plus, many healers also team up with friends that are lancers for guardians to share buffs so expect more damage from them.

    Besides, there is a shortage of healers at guardians missions from what i saw when going on my tank/dps and do you know what that means? If not then let me tell you. That means that there is no debuff from mystic/priest on the boss and tanks/dps are actually the ones losing there. Do you really want to nerf priests/mystics even more to the point where you hurt your own contribution rate? In my case, i would rather see priests/mystics everywhere and the boss debuffed with 10% endurance all the time because in that case i am winning and not losing ( priests can also AOE heal other players with holy bursts which really helps at the "fireball boi" ).


    p.s. making it worse for healers will actually hurt the dps/tanks..
  • LaVolpiLaVolpi ✭✭
    edited May 2018
    So my mystic is SC+0 and my priest is FM+0. Did testing last night and was only able to get a max of like 4-6 boxes. How tf you guys getting like 11-12? I guess I didn't have glyphs or anything set, that'd probably affect it a bit.
  • JasonTERAJasonTERA ✭✭✭
    LaVolpi wrote: »
    So my mystic is SC+0 and my priest is FM+0. Did testing last night and was only able to get a max of like 4-6 boxes. How tf you guys getting like 11-12? I guess I didn't have glyphs or anything set, that'd probably affect it a bit.

    1) Did you use dps crystal? Savage / Spiteful / Focused / Pounding(or slaying) + Keen/Powerful Vyrsk
    2) Did your weapon have dps rolls?
    3) Did you use dps glyph?
    4) Did you know priest/mystic's dps skill rotation?
    5) Did you try to stay behind the boss 24/7 like dps?
    6) Did you use proper consumables? - Bravery/Canephora, Lamb Bulgogi, Noctenium, etc

    If you did all of things above, your FM +0 priest can get top 5 every time which means 10+ boxes per a zone per a channel. And SC+0 can get even more boxes.
  • My +6 FM priest can average 12 boxes per, with a dps set up (glyphs, crystals and proper rotation) usually places 3rd or 4th, Mystic with +5 SC usually ranks 2nd or 3rd with the dps set up.

    Still cracks me up that people are actually complaining about a healer being able to out dps them, god forbid we ACTUALLY dps and kick a little a$$ once in a while and the dps still get all pissy...just do the damn quests and move on to the next one, quit being an egotistical [filtered] about it. I know a lot of healers that are seriously badass regardless of gear and most joke about how high they rank when they start getting nasty whispers about cheating etc. Check your egos and play the damn game and let us healers do the same.
  • LOL massive TERA problem here.
    "PRIEST ARE OUTDPSING ME! NERF THEM! I WANNA BE RANKED AT THE TOP TOO!"
    omegalul
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