Suggested Battleground Reward Changes/Reversion

Hello Everyone,

This forum post will discuss and critique the recently updated battlegrounds rewards system that utilizes battleground coins as currency to buy the items in the shop listed below.

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This rewards shop is objectively a nerf to the recent battlegrounds rewards system. This new rewards system will make it increasingly difficult to attain items that have value such as the superior etching box which costs 20 battleground coins. Each battleground win rewards 1, 2, or 3 battleground coins. I’m sorry, but 20 battleground coins for 3.2k gold (superior etching box cost), no thank you.

However, I have not even touched on the primary nerf yet. We all know the major nerf was the elimination of 5 emeralds from the battleground jackpot. This was the main incentive for people to que battlegrounds and these 5 emeralds are worth 5 * ~1380 gold = 6900 gold from one battleground jackpot. These emeralds are also a very crucial element for enchanting frostmetal and stormcry gear.

Let’s assume you average 2 battleground coins per battleground win. This equates to 10 battleground wins to attain a superior etching box. 3,200 gold / 10 = 320 gold per win on average.

I’m not sure of the exact probability of the emerald jackpot, but I would say the average occurrence of the emerald jackpot was twice out of every 10 games (sometimes more, like back to back, this is a modest estimate). (6900 *2) / (10) = 1,380 gold per win.

The battleground jackpot rewards should not have been touched, they were balanced, and were exemplary at maintaining a reasonable emerald supply to meet the demand of crafting needs from the players. Besides that, battlegrounds rewards should not have been nerfed, if anything they should have been buffed as a larger incentive for players to participate in battlegrounds.

The Battleground/PvP urgently needs greater player participation. The proof is in the pudding. For instance, on any given day, there is typically only one que running per each battleground (CS or fraywind). Two ques of players is a rare occurrence. Slow BG ques = less players engaging in pvp. When only one que is running, this presents problems. Other players que and have to wait for the one que that is running to finish. If these said people que for a battleground right when the one que that is running begins their game, they could be waiting up to 15 minutes for fraywind or up to 24 minutes for corsairs stronghold to pop.
These battlegrounds require greater incentives/rewards to ensure that at least 2-3 ques of an instance are running.

The jackpot rewards system you had before with the five emeralds was balanced. If anything, it required a slight buff in order to incentivize battlegrounds a little more to promote player participation in these events. The nerf was entirely ironic, it is the direct opposite of what should’ve happened. I propose that you revert back to the old battleground jackpots and reimplement the battleground coins to be earned after successfully participating in any BG (regardless of win or loss). If any balancing needs to be done to the BG coin shop, this would be fair, but there was no justifiable reason to nerf battleground rewards or have changed them in the first place.

Thank you,
Skystrider from MT

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Comments

  • ThukingThuking ✭✭✭
    Yes I agree with OP.

    also gold or silver talent jackpot then everyone would be queing.
  • ElinUsagiElinUsagi ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thuking wrote: »
    Yes I agree with OP.

    also gold or silver talent jackpot then everyone would be queing.

    Maybe an increase in coins awarded to winners and a single coin as consolation prize for loser side?

    Anyway, I dont think this coin system is a bad idea, it is similar to previous bg credits where you could chose what to spend your credits for.
  • Yeah Elin, I agree that the coin system was a great addition to the rewards. However, like I mentioned above, they should have maintained the jackpot rewards that existed and implemented the coins as a reward for participation/winning in a battleground. Where you could get 1 coin per loss or 3 coins per win. There was no sound reasoning behind removing a balanced jackpot rewards system, especially the emeralds jackpot.
  • edited June 2018
    Valikye wrote: »
    There was no sound reasoning behind removing a balanced jackpot rewards system, especially the emeralds jackpot.
    I don't think it's quite fair to say there was "no sound reasoning" just because you disagree with the result. (You may not agree with the reasoning either, but it's neither here nor there.) It can probably still be tweaked, though I expect they'll give it a bit of time to see what the actual result is.
  • Hi counterpoint,

    Thanks for your feedback. They have not provided any reasoning behind this large change, they just implemented it with no explanation, hence my position. If they have rationale, they should've explained these changes further in their blog post/announcement, they failed to do so. It would be phenomenal for them to explain their position, but as of right now, it was an unexplained + was a significant change. Also, the numbers do not add up. The gold per hour after this new battleground jackpot rewards change is imbalanced relative to pve. It was already trailing pve if you consider the que times.

    I wish I had the exact probabilities of jackpot items from the old jackpot to provide you with solid numbers, I did provide approximations in my previous post. Regardless, this took a significant hit on the gold per hour earned from participating in battlegrounds. This nerf will further discourage people to spend their time in battlegrounds because the rewards are just not worth it relative to the gold earned per hour in pve. To your second point, I agree that they can tweak the battleground coins rewards throughout time, but the old jackpot rewards should have remained and the battleground coins should have just been an additional reward for participation in a battleground.
  • In hindsight I realize we should have messaged out this change sooner. We knew the cost of the items would draw feedback, and with that feedback we would have to consider adjustments. I think the problem is we focused on the positives of providing more items, giving players the power to choose their reward, and our desire to get this out as fast as possible. The intention was never to nerf the rewards.

    Continue to provide feedback. Detailed and constructive FTW please.
  • StarSpriteStarSprite ✭✭✭✭
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    Thuking wrote: »
    Yes I agree with OP.

    also gold or silver talent jackpot then everyone would be queing.

    Maybe an increase in coins awarded to winners and a single coin as consolation prize for loser side?

    Anyway, I dont think this coin system is a bad idea, it is similar to previous bg credits where you could chose what to spend your credits for.

    By design, the jackpot reward system doesn't have a way to give a participation prize to the loser. Being perfectly honest, I personally prefer it that way. If you want the extra prize, work for it. I ended up with 42 tokens today with 19 games played and 16 of those being wins. Earning the tokens isn't really the issue here. I do agree there should be some adjustments in the shop.
  • eiwoeiwo ✭✭
    It doesn't make sense that essences cost twice as much as smart dyads. I mean at least I'll get an essence or two a day now from pvp, but if I pve'd I could get dozens in a day so this is still pretty bad. And since smart dyads are rarer in general you should swap the prices on those honestly.

    Also there should be proper gems to the shop in case people need money. X amount of tokens for a diamond would makes sense, and for it to make sense and not be a major nerf since we no longer get jackpots -- the price of a diamond should be about 8 or 10 tokens, or 4-5 wins. Comparing last FWC day where I got 4 emerald games(so 20 emeralds) in a row, followed mainly by dragon scales and rubies for the next 14 games, that wouldn't be too bad.
  • Hello All,

    Thank you for all your replies, I appreciate your contribution to this post. In reply to SingleBear, this is not as much of a "significant change" as I thought. One of my guildmates brought it to my attention that this battleground jackpot reward system was only temporary. I initially thought this was a permanent change, so I apologize for my hyperbole.

    "During a Battleground Bonus Item weekend (like the one starting Friday, June 1 at 4 a.m. PDT and running until Monday, June 4 at 4 a.m. PDT), battleground wins will include bonus items and increased Battleground Coins in the jackpot."

    At least future battleground bonus item weekends will be adjusted to be equivalent to the normal battleground jackpot prize system. Thank you for creating positive change and introducing new rewards for these special battleground bonus item weekends. I apologize for being so harsh. I look forward to the adjustments you will be making to the battleground bonus item weekend events. It would be great to see the emerald jackpot reappear during these battleground bonus item weekends while adjustments are made to newly released battleground coin jackpot system.

    All the best,
    Skystrider
  • eiwoeiwo ✭✭
    Also I'd like to point out those 19 wins I mentioned are from someone who can actually win that many(and more) games in a day. The VAST majority of people don't win most of the time. Going by my frequent random inspections I assume the average player's win rate is under 50% most days, and 55% tops on games when no heavy hitters are queuing. So the MVPs who are getting wins all the time won't be progressing quickly at all, and the losers will be moving up at a snail's pace.

    Keep in mind the average FWC/CS takes like 13 minutes so it'll take 2~ hours for one essence, and because there's no gems you might not even be able to afford the upgrade. Since I don't PVE at all I'm happy with being able to buy essences but this system isn't balanced very well.

    Also the etching boxes are 20 tokens? That's really dumb, they're worth very little on the broker the last I checked. You'd make more money getting 20 Precious Gem Boxes which mainly contain near worthless rubies. The crafter's cure should be sellable too.

  • Assuming EME will not bring Talents to the loot table outside of the rng from the already implemented loot boxes.

    I personally think that the token shop is a good start in the right direction with the fact that we can finally choose our own rewards, similar to the old credit system where you could stack bell credits to farm mats. Of course from looking at the current rewards there is hardly any excitement to start spamming battlegrounds off the bat, however from initial observation it looks like this is merely test run, and it is more likely that EME are planning to update and are willing to evolve this system through feedback.

    I would like to propose a few things that hopefully may be implemented in the very near future around these tokens.
    1 - The Initial ratio of the tokens should be adjusted to favor higher drops for the winners compared to the current 1 token per lose, 2 token per win + 1-3 jackpot. Due to the overall mood in battlegrounds right now, I hope that the winners gain more tokens to counter the AFK/Losing mentality players may get from losing the first fight. Higher rewards will bring hopefully inspire more players to fight until the very end to receive a bounty people can desire. Ultimately Winning and Losing should not feel the same in terms of prizes.
    2 - Valkyon Health Potions, Gem boxes, Bravery Potions, and Rejuvenation Potions have been either guaranteed rewards through vanguard or in general, unfavored due to how little value it provides towards progression. I get that those were put in towards testing what the loot system should be but to be blunt, those are very, very much undesirable to see though they can be labeled as filler items.On top of that BHS are removing bravery potions anyways. As a replacement, maybe we could see otherworldly shards or a diamond in the token shop.

    Relating to #1 and similar to what @Valikye has stated, higher incentive to play( and win) comes from actual competitive rewards. Even if the goal for EME/BHS is not to have PvP surpassing PvE in gearing/content/progression, hopefully that does not translate to only having unfavorable rewards for these bgs. Despite Tera being a more PvE based game, PvP content is still very much cherished and seen as a major part of the game. In general moving forward, I wish battlegrounds have a more LINEAR path to progression overall, which is especially important to more hardcore players who spam these instances as their main content on Tera.

    One of the looks of the game in the past that I particularly liked was the relationship between PvP and PvE content. PvE usually contained more optimal ways in terms of gear progression, BUT there were always situations where doing PvP for a specific item or mat was actually more viable than spamming a dungeon in hopes to win the rng roll. Such balance involved players to queue and experience both sides of the game, which I would consider what Tera Online actually is as a whole (another example is doing pvp for jewelry and pve for enchanting). Tera is a wonderful game on itself, why only understand 1/2 of the game?

    There are way more to be said(ofc) but I do appreciate that they are experimenting with the rewards. The only step that needs to be taken from here on out is to listen towards feedback from the community and actually execute them.
  • I appreciate the idea behind the change, but the token amounts required for mats are definitely a downgrade.

    Like, if you could win, say, 5 tokens with a rare jackpot in Fraywind (set to equivalent rates of what emeralds were before) then you should be able to buy emeralds with a comparable number of tokens... maybe 6 or 7 to offset the ability to choose your rewards.

    And I'd just ditch the health potions and stuff, they're easier to get via the BG vanguards anyway. Not sure what to put to replace them, however.
  • StarSpriteStarSprite ✭✭✭✭
    And I'd just ditch the health potions and stuff, they're easier to get via the BG vanguards anyway. Not sure what to put to replace them, however.
    Just tossing the idea out there but

    Bgs used to give etching materials. What if etching mats replaced the pots and stuff? Also wondering about adding the different tiers of etching mats to help with t4 etching crafting.
  • Yeah, I like that idea, the titan storm/earth are pretty hard to come by, outside of spamming Island of Dawn for years. Other higher-tier etching mats would probably be appreciated but there'd have to be a discussion about pricing them so it doesn't shift the market a lot.
  • In my opinion, the change is Great, i mean being able to choose your rewards based on whatever you need is a really good thing, but on the other hand you having to rng those tokens man, that's a little bad if you ask me, It's already hard to win 10 times in a row unless you have a pretty stacked team every match, on top of that you'd have to win 10 times being lucky enough to get the X3 tokens rng on all that 10 matches, imo a good thing would be to remove the RNG from the tokens, 3 each match regardless and 4 on weekends regardless, or get the cost for the stuff lower, also a good thing would be to add emeralds on the token shop too, like 2:1 or 1:1... the player should be able to survive only playing pve.. back when fwc would give 5 emeralds as jackpot i'd farm like 30~40 a fwc day, now u can't really do that. The "meaning" behind the change i can agree, removing rng on everything is great but the way you guys choose to do so not so much...
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