XIGNCODE with next patch? Hello EME announce atleast that we are installing malware with this game!!

Fulzoid · June 2018

Tera turning unoptimized Malware that will permanently keylogging everything you do and type on june 7th 2018 confirmed. :sigh: So far, Xigncode3 is known to be total useless as "anti-cheat" system, people manage to get pass it by legitly using Cheat Engine... How failure of a "anti-cheat" is that... like seriously... "Anti-cheat that let you run Cheat Engine to bypass it" :thonking:
@mEME, seriously, you guys went low. Covering yourself with the 1 year old "Hacker hunt"... if that was true, you would of launched Xighcode3 a year ago, even more knowing that Keylogger is installed on every crappy game you guys publishing. I found out today that I had that [filtered] installed, cuz I participated in 1 of your event (Install Kritika and play till lvl 20 to get free Lady in Tera). Beside, Kritika cannot even uninstall... seriously?

Anyway, back to my previous idea, the only reason you using Xigncode3 right now, is because Tera cost you more than what you get from it. Therefore you try to find another way to fill your bank, perhaps selling info about every single person in your community. Personal info are a huge moneyflow atm, 1 of the biggest Online (better than "Mining fake currency") and apparently, mEME ended up reaching this spot. Well Congrats guys, but you'll lose a [filtered] load of people in 2 days.

Xigncode3 side effects:
Drop FPS
Will report you as a "hacker" if you tweak files (which are literally options in-game, but without actual restriction)
Will report you as a "hacker" if you prefer pinky icones, or are annoyed by DMG floating text and just decide to remove it
Will report you as a "hacker" if you run a dpsmeter to get better (or at least have something to rely on)
[filtered] [filtered] load of people

What Xigncode3 won't fix:
Proxy uses
Mod uses
Injectors

Result: Keep hackers, [filtered] every other people.

Classic mEME.

This feel exactly as "Hacker Hunt", where over half people just moved to Gameforge and never cameback.

I'll repeat what I said that day, when you guys deleted my post (silenced) when I tried to have neutral conversation with you, publicly... You guys aren't aware of what you doing, so quit trying to do things. You did screw everything up lately... and whatever you do, actual hackers will take a few days to bypass your attempt to "make a better world".

CornishRex · June 2018

counterpoint wrote: »

clfarron4 wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

KillerPenguins wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

Goosey wrote: »

To even play this game now, you'd basically need a burner PC that just runs TERA and nothing else, because once you have this installed your PC, it will be compromised and will not be safe to do anything You won't be safe to read emails, log into any websites, nothing. Everything you do will be captured and logged, and any valuable information will be exploited against you.

Is there actually any substantiated evidence to support this claim? This software is used actively by other major Korean MMOs, including BDO and BnS, all EME's other games, and TERA in Korea and Japan. Is there any evidence that anyone's computers been compromised in this way? If there's any evidence of anything like this actually happening, all these companies need to know so they can sue the hell out of Wellbia for the liability they imposed.

I don't think proof of it happening is the point here - The point is that EME, a company who is fairly well known for being inept and lying to their customers both intentionally and unintentionally, has just asked every single TERA player to install a keylogger and file system scanner on their own computer, to send our data to a third party. Not only that, but all the evidence points to this malware not even working for it's intended function. So, basically EME is just asking us to send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party for NO reason whatsoever. That's the problem people have with this change.

That's also not true, though. It's not a keylogger. It does not "send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party" at all. It scans the files and hashes them to scan against known signatures, like how an anti-virus works. Yeah, even that is more invasive than I'd like, but it's not the same thing.

I'm not a fan of this software, and I do think it's pointless as long as it's completely ineffectual at its supposed function (I wouldn't have introduced it until I was sure it actually solved a problem that needed solving, if it were up to me), but the FUD about what it does is just so completely through the roof that I have no idea where people are getting it from. I don't think it's necessary to lie and exaggerate about what the software does to convince EME that it's a bad idea, because EME already knows these lies and exaggerations aren't true anyway, and are just FUD. It hurts the argument people are trying to make! I've no problem if an army of people come on to say they don't want to install it, they don't trust it, they don't think it'll work, on and on and on; there's plenty to choose from.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DFO/comments/30tcb6/xigncode_looks_at_all_files_youve_accessed_in_the/

http://i.imgur.com/zOEDkVa.png

DFO a game with XignCode bundled with it. Why does it need to scan files in your Firefox Profile data?

I don't know if our version will do that. But the fact that it touches the files to hash them does not mean that it's uploading them either, any more than any anti-virus software, anti-malware software, or other similar tool.

Healthy scepticism is fine, but it's like people have taken all the most paranoid voices around the Internet on this topic and combined them as if that's what it does based on well they could do all these other things too, maybe and we just can't trust them.

It slows down performance though. I don't have antiviruses/antimalware for this reason. Every time scans start my laptop starts dying. I don't like that.

Also to quote some guy from reddit:

It comes down to transparency and who it's supposed to serve.

An anti-virus or anti-malware program is ostensibly under "your" control, it's there to find threats and protect you, it's generally telling you what it's doing, and it only sends information abroad in specific circumstances it is (or at least should be) somewhat verbose about.

Anti-cheat is another story -- it's this secretive little goblin in the corner that doesn't talk to you, there to protect a party that's on the opposite end of an Internet link. It's natural for said party to want to acquire information from the client; at that point, "how much" is a very appropriate question.

The best part is, xigncode is entirely useless against actual hackers (as seen from bdo, bns, ktera even) and does nothing but tank your performance. What the [filtered] point? How much has xigncode paid bhs to use their product lmfao

KiraKiryu · June 2018

All I can say is I don't like it (not to mention the stupid thing doesn't even do it's ****ing job >:T ), but I also don't care and will keep playing. I also see that everyone who sees this is going to uninstall TERA and quit. so seems to me the end is coming for TERA. mEME and BHs just lost money by the thousands with everyone who is leaving the game XD

Tipanni · June 2018

It's so dumb because without proxy, people with high ping can't play properly. People edit files for benefits like changing PoV, tanks are died and if they can't zoom out to see more...tanks are gonna die more. People who buys loot boxes ingame or elite status , basically paying customers, who the ones who enables the game to live on. They're the one that gears up because they want to see how OP they are. Without dps meter, they wouldn't want to pay money. Everyone who supports all these nonsense clearly doesnt pay real money into the game, if they do, maybe just a 1-2 time thing for 1000 emp and that's it. Everyone who buys 40$ and 100$ stacks are selling emp to gear up or IDK, u guys get the point. DPS meter, POV, proxy...thats 90% of paid users.

counterpoint · June 2018

CornishRex wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

clfarron4 wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

KillerPenguins wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

Goosey wrote: »

To even play this game now, you'd basically need a burner PC that just runs TERA and nothing else, because once you have this installed your PC, it will be compromised and will not be safe to do anything You won't be safe to read emails, log into any websites, nothing. Everything you do will be captured and logged, and any valuable information will be exploited against you.

Is there actually any substantiated evidence to support this claim? This software is used actively by other major Korean MMOs, including BDO and BnS, all EME's other games, and TERA in Korea and Japan. Is there any evidence that anyone's computers been compromised in this way? If there's any evidence of anything like this actually happening, all these companies need to know so they can sue the hell out of Wellbia for the liability they imposed.

I don't think proof of it happening is the point here - The point is that EME, a company who is fairly well known for being inept and lying to their customers both intentionally and unintentionally, has just asked every single TERA player to install a keylogger and file system scanner on their own computer, to send our data to a third party. Not only that, but all the evidence points to this malware not even working for it's intended function. So, basically EME is just asking us to send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party for NO reason whatsoever. That's the problem people have with this change.

That's also not true, though. It's not a keylogger. It does not "send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party" at all. It scans the files and hashes them to scan against known signatures, like how an anti-virus works. Yeah, even that is more invasive than I'd like, but it's not the same thing.

I'm not a fan of this software, and I do think it's pointless as long as it's completely ineffectual at its supposed function (I wouldn't have introduced it until I was sure it actually solved a problem that needed solving, if it were up to me), but the FUD about what it does is just so completely through the roof that I have no idea where people are getting it from. I don't think it's necessary to lie and exaggerate about what the software does to convince EME that it's a bad idea, because EME already knows these lies and exaggerations aren't true anyway, and are just FUD. It hurts the argument people are trying to make! I've no problem if an army of people come on to say they don't want to install it, they don't trust it, they don't think it'll work, on and on and on; there's plenty to choose from.

https://www.reddit.com/r/DFO/comments/30tcb6/xigncode_looks_at_all_files_youve_accessed_in_the/

http://i.imgur.com/zOEDkVa.png

DFO a game with XignCode bundled with it. Why does it need to scan files in your Firefox Profile data?

I don't know if our version will do that. But the fact that it touches the files to hash them does not mean that it's uploading them either, any more than any anti-virus software, anti-malware software, or other similar tool.

Healthy scepticism is fine, but it's like people have taken all the most paranoid voices around the Internet on this topic and combined them as if that's what it does based on well they could do all these other things too, maybe and we just can't trust them.

It slows down performance though. I don't have antiviruses/antimalware for this reason. Every time scans start my laptop starts dying. I don't like that.

Also to quote some guy from reddit:

It comes down to transparency and who it's supposed to serve.

An anti-virus or anti-malware program is ostensibly under "your" control, it's there to find threats and protect you, it's generally telling you what it's doing, and it only sends information abroad in specific circumstances it is (or at least should be) somewhat verbose about.

Anti-cheat is another story -- it's this secretive little goblin in the corner that doesn't talk to you, there to protect a party that's on the opposite end of an Internet link. It's natural for said party to want to acquire information from the client; at that point, "how much" is a very appropriate question.

The best part is, xigncode is entirely useless against actual hackers (as seen from bdo, bns, ktera even) and does nothing but tank your performance. What the [filtered] point? How much has xigncode paid bhs to use their product lmfao

These arguments I can accept; they're valid concerns, at the very least. I will be very interested to see how much performance is impacted across the board. I know that I have played other games with XIGNCODE3 that seem to perform well (better than TERA, though that's not too surprising sadly), but I guess you don't know what you're missing. And as I said before, I agree that it only makes sense to implement this sort of system if it will clearly solve some sort of problem, so if it doesn't actually solve anything, it does seem pointless.

It's weird to me that people are in one breath making so much noise about how this is easy to bypass, and in another breath yelling about how this is the worst thing in the world. Maybe it's true that only the "innocent will suffer," but I guess we'll see what happens. Worst case scenario, we've seen other games that added it and later removed it because it didn't serve its intended purpose.

KillerPenguins · June 2018

counterpoint wrote: »

KillerPenguins wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

Goosey wrote: »

To even play this game now, you'd basically need a burner PC that just runs TERA and nothing else, because once you have this installed your PC, it will be compromised and will not be safe to do anything You won't be safe to read emails, log into any websites, nothing. Everything you do will be captured and logged, and any valuable information will be exploited against you.

Is there actually any substantiated evidence to support this claim? This software is used actively by other major Korean MMOs, including BDO and BnS, all EME's other games, and TERA in Korea and Japan. Is there any evidence that anyone's computers been compromised in this way? If there's any evidence of anything like this actually happening, all these companies need to know so they can sue the hell out of Wellbia for the liability they imposed.

I don't think proof of it happening is the point here - The point is that EME, a company who is fairly well known for being inept and lying to their customers both intentionally and unintentionally, has just asked every single TERA player to install a keylogger and file system scanner on their own computer, to send our data to a third party. Not only that, but all the evidence points to this malware not even working for it's intended function. So, basically EME is just asking us to send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party for NO reason whatsoever. That's the problem people have with this change.

That's also not true, though. It's not a keylogger. It does not "send *everything* we do on our computers for 48 hours before playing tera to a third party" at all. It scans the files and hashes them to scan against known signatures, like how an anti-virus works. Yeah, even that is more invasive than I'd like, but it's not the same thing.

I'm not a fan of this software, and I do think it's pointless as long as it's completely ineffectual at its supposed function (I wouldn't have introduced it until I was sure it actually solved a problem that needed solving, if it were up to me), but the FUD about what it does is just so completely through the roof that I have no idea where people are getting it from. I don't think it's necessary to lie and exaggerate about what the software does to convince EME that it's a bad idea, because EME already knows these lies and exaggerations aren't true anyway, and are just FUD. It hurts the argument people are trying to make! I've no problem if an army of people come on to say they don't want to install it, they don't trust it, they don't think it'll work, on and on and on; there's plenty to choose from.

I've done more research on this, just in case. I've come to a few conclusions:
1) any program that *can* be a keylogger in certain circumstances, is a keylogger.
2) any program that does not benefit the user in any way and is installed without their express intent is malware (this aside from the fact that it actually negatively impacts users..)
3) the vast majority of flags from xingcode3 appear to be false positives, because the ease of bypassing it means nobody cheating actually gets flagged.
4) as a developer, i will experience frequent crashes and frustration due to this because of activities entirely unrelated to TERA

TotallyLegit · June 2018

Not sure what this does but oh well .-.

Christin · June 2018

It surely logs everything you type while the game is running. I always do stuff with the game running like log into my bank or whatever. Plus, are we just supposed to assume it shuts off with the game? What if it is logging my passwords when the game is off? How would I even know?

Sure, I could buy a few more USB drives and save everything onto those (not major stuff, just photos and tax info with no important numbers), but they don't even look like a professional company. The references given aren't nearly enough to impress. It's like they have some connection to EME, but their other references don't look so great.

Sorry, but last thing I want to do is give a Korean company full control over my computer. They don't even have to follow US law. The EULA protects EME from any responsibility even if our information is being used incorrectly. Further, other Korean based companies I've dealt with are riddled with employees stealing customer data. Most of those companies have leaks and employees that inject their own hacks to retrieve customer data. Don't believe me? Leave a negative Facebook post for other games based in Korea, and suddenly, your email will be flooded with phishing emails telling you to click on a link, because your account has been banned. How did they get your email just from your name? Yeah, that's what I'm posting about.

Peperoncina · June 2018

I dont like XIGNCODE, it doesnt seem a good tool

counterpoint · June 2018

KillerPenguins wrote: »

4) as a developer, i will experience frequent crashes and frustration due to this because of activities entirely unrelated to TERA

I am a developer and login to other games with XIGNCODE3 pretty much daily. Even when I have my dev environment, VMs, docker containers, VPNs, etc. etc. running, I haven't encountered any crashes. Maybe TERA will be different and will cause these problems; we'll see. If it does, I'll be first to complain.

TomRipley · June 2018

counterpoint wrote: »

I don't know if our version will do that. But the fact that it touches the files to hash them does not mean that it's uploading them either, any more than any anti-virus software, anti-malware software, or other similar tool.

Healthy scepticism is fine, but it's like people have taken all the most paranoid voices around the Internet on this topic and combined them as if that's what it does based on well they could do all these other things too, maybe and we just can't trust them.

Counterpoint, I know you're often the voice of reason on the forums, but here you're simply asking to give trust in advance.

Just consider these points:
This software has been used in kTera since 2013, and still all the stuff like memeslash happened. So it effectively doesn't prevent these exploits.
Instead we're supposed to put up with no longer modifying ini files to optimize the game's performance, which Bluehole refuses do.

And lastly, you hand over the responsibility for proving that this exact usage of the program won't be abused, which would mean us monitoring what xigncode does and does not scan and record on our systems. All for a game. I don't think this responsibility should be on our end of the deal.

PS I've seen in another quote you claim to be a programmer. So I guess you are aware that even if neither the program nor EME misuses the information, this thing provides a backdoor for people with malicious intents, right?

KillerPenguins · June 2018

counterpoint wrote: »

KillerPenguins wrote: »

4) as a developer, i will experience frequent crashes and frustration due to this because of activities entirely unrelated to TERA

I am a developer and login to other games with XIGNCODE3 pretty much daily. Even when I have my dev environment, VMs, docker containers, VPNs, etc. etc. running, I haven't encountered any crashes. Maybe TERA will be different and will cause these problems; we'll see. If it does, I'll be first to complain.

Oh, well, in that case, installing a keylogger & malware on my personal computer for no reason is fine if it usually doesn't prevent me from using my computer for other things.
edit: this post was sarcastic and didn't add anything, so i'll add that i'm actually more concerned about the false positives - i use cheat engine and similar memory editors fairly frequently for debugging purposes, and it seems to hate those in particular, even if they aren't attached to the TERA process.

Fulzoid · June 2018

TomRipley wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

I don't know if our version will do that. But the fact that it touches the files to hash them does not mean that it's uploading them either, any more than any anti-virus software, anti-malware software, or other similar tool.

Healthy scepticism is fine, but it's like people have taken all the most paranoid voices around the Internet on this topic and combined them as if that's what it does based on well they could do all these other things too, maybe and we just can't trust them.

Counterpoint, I know you're often the voice of reason on the forums, but here you're simply asking to give trust in advance.

Where do I click to unlike this comment? :O Counterpoint always been doing his "off the grid" player council around the forum. He picked so many fights that he couldn't win and brought so many [filtered] to it. I can't even see where the "voice of reason" apply...

As a Dev... if that's the case... he would know that Xigncode will be total worthless, is a system that is harmful to people and that's not the paranoid part, it is reality. People underestimate info value. How many time did you get random calls for publicity on your cellphone, get called from numbers you dunno. over 90% of the time, it's sold data by who ever own the info. Imagine that you get access to someone personal computer as Root authority. That someone is known to have 0 transparency and Wallet going down...

Finaly, as you stated, that very person also never bothered optimizing it's game for the past 5 years, basicly since it was needed...

This isn't for Tera, this is for mEME, obviously. Every dead game they have, they used Xighcode into it. Tera was the only one without it and therefore their only reliable money making game. Why all of suddent, the need to implement such non-sense? If can't figure out, read my previous post.

TomRipley · June 2018

Fulzoid wrote: »

TomRipley wrote: »

counterpoint wrote: »

I don't know if our version will do that. But the fact that it touches the files to hash them does not mean that it's uploading them either, any more than any anti-virus software, anti-malware software, or other similar tool.

Healthy scepticism is fine, but it's like people have taken all the most paranoid voices around the Internet on this topic and combined them as if that's what it does based on well they could do all these other things too, maybe and we just can't trust them.

Counterpoint, I know you're often the voice of reason on the forums, but here you're simply asking to give trust in advance.

Where do I click to unlike this comment? :O Counterpoint always been doing his "off the grid" player council around the forum. He picked so many fights that he couldn't win and brought so many [filtered] to it. I can't even see where the "voice of reason" apply...

I know he's sometimes off the mark, but at least he usually seems to try and make a solid argument, whether you (or me for that matter) agree with it or not. What I've read from him so far in this thread is missing the target by a lot.

But maybe I'm mistaken, having not really played the game for about a year, I also don't follow *everything* that's going on in the forums.

XIGNCODE with next patch? Hello EME announce atleast that we are installing malware with this game!!

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