[PS4/XB1] We will be entering into maintenance downtime on 11/18 at 6pm PST. For details, please visit the following thread: http://bit.ly/teraconsolemaintenance

XIGNCODE DISCUSSION!

2456738

Comments

  • edited June 2018
    Is not better pay 3 or 4 progrmmers to make you a custom software?? Unknown for all, and then, not so easy to quit??
    I think it will be even chaper than this XC.

    For this kind of software, it's probably not because maintaining compatibility with various Windows and other software updates is a giant pain, and doing anything like this in a secure way is really hard. (And for something like anti-cheat software, as we see clearly, you're basically painting a giant target on your back.) There's already enough consternation about how reputable XIGNCODE is (partly because their English presence isn't very good, and they're not known to be effective for this game), but doing it "in-house" is an even higher risk. It's better to pass that risk onto another company who makes that their entire focus and mission (which, for all its flaws, this company does for a very large number of Korean games). At the end of the day, as far as reputation goes, being able to say they were part of the world's biggest videogame of 2017 is not insignificant for them and their reputation (nor for BHS, obviously), but clearly they need more work and focus to accomplish anything useful with TERA.
  • KillerPenguinsKillerPenguins ✭✭✭✭
    Is not better pay 3 or 4 progrmmers to make you a custom software?? Unknown for all, and then, not so easy to quit??
    I think it will be even chaper than this XC.

    For this kind of software, it's probably not because maintaining compatibility with various Windows and other software updates is a giant pain, and doing anything like this in a secure way is really hard. (And for something like anti-cheat software, as we see clearly, you're basically painting a giant target on your back.) There's already enough consternation about how reputable XIGNCODE is (partly because their English presence isn't very good, and they're not known to be effective for this game), but doing it "in-house" is an even higher risk. It's better to pass that risk onto another company who makes that their entire focus and mission (which, for all its flaws, this company does for a very large number of Korean games). At the end of the day, as far as reputation goes, being able to say they were part of the world's biggest videogame of 2017 is not insignificant for them and their reputation (nor for BHS, obviously), but clearly they need more work and focus to accomplish anything useful with TERA.

    Your wording here is not quite right in my opinion. For instance you say "Is not known to work for this game" where you mean "is known not to work for this game" small difference, big meaning. Also, it's not really a good thing to say you're the body guard of a guy who has been repeatedly shot. XIGNCODE has proven to be ineffective and buggy on every single game it's been deployed on, so I don't really see how being deployed lots of places is a plus, since it has not worked in any of them.

    The real solution to the problem of cheating in TERA is to improve the server-side code and make most of the [filtered] cheats people use not possible, as they wouldn't be in a properly coded game.
  • edited June 2018
    Is not better pay 3 or 4 progrmmers to make you a custom software?? Unknown for all, and then, not so easy to quit??
    I think it will be even chaper than this XC.

    For this kind of software, it's probably not because maintaining compatibility with various Windows and other software updates is a giant pain, and doing anything like this in a secure way is really hard. (And for something like anti-cheat software, as we see clearly, you're basically painting a giant target on your back.) There's already enough consternation about how reputable XIGNCODE is (partly because their English presence isn't very good, and they're not known to be effective for this game), but doing it "in-house" is an even higher risk. It's better to pass that risk onto another company who makes that their entire focus and mission (which, for all its flaws, this company does for a very large number of Korean games). At the end of the day, as far as reputation goes, being able to say they were part of the world's biggest videogame of 2017 is not insignificant for them and their reputation (nor for BHS, obviously), but clearly they need more work and focus to accomplish anything useful with TERA.

    Your wording here is not quite right in my opinion. For instance you say "Is not known to work for this game" where you mean "is known not to work for this game" small difference, big meaning. Also, it's not really a good thing to say you're the body guard of a guy who has been repeatedly shot. XIGNCODE has proven to be ineffective and buggy on every single game it's been deployed on, so I don't really see how being deployed lots of places is a plus, since it has not worked in any of them.

    The only reason for the former wording is because, as I've said before, whether this can be effective depends entirely on how much of a focus they make on fighting this battle. There are ways of implementing this software that, at least, make it much more of a giant pain in the [filtered] for those programming bypasses, and in other games have driven some of the bypasses further underground to delay being caught and stopped (requiring more, slightly more tedious rework). But it really depends on the tenacity and investment of the developers to constantly fight. So far, clearly, BHS has not been that diligent in this matter on any front, such as...

    The real solution to the problem of cheating in TERA is to improve the server-side code and make most of the [filtered] cheats people use not possible, as they wouldn't be in a properly coded game.

    Well, yeah, obviously. Pretty much everyone has relayed this message to EME ad nauseum. There's no doubt whatsoever that this is really what BHS needs to do above anything else, and this software is at best a tangent in that process. ("Never trust the client" is not just some euphemism, it's an imperative. One that BHS clearly never heard of when they programmed this game.)
  • KillerPenguinsKillerPenguins ✭✭✭✭
    Is not better pay 3 or 4 progrmmers to make you a custom software?? Unknown for all, and then, not so easy to quit??
    I think it will be even chaper than this XC.

    For this kind of software, it's probably not because maintaining compatibility with various Windows and other software updates is a giant pain, and doing anything like this in a secure way is really hard. (And for something like anti-cheat software, as we see clearly, you're basically painting a giant target on your back.) There's already enough consternation about how reputable XIGNCODE is (partly because their English presence isn't very good, and they're not known to be effective for this game), but doing it "in-house" is an even higher risk. It's better to pass that risk onto another company who makes that their entire focus and mission (which, for all its flaws, this company does for a very large number of Korean games). At the end of the day, as far as reputation goes, being able to say they were part of the world's biggest videogame of 2017 is not insignificant for them and their reputation (nor for BHS, obviously), but clearly they need more work and focus to accomplish anything useful with TERA.

    Your wording here is not quite right in my opinion. For instance you say "Is not known to work for this game" where you mean "is known not to work for this game" small difference, big meaning. Also, it's not really a good thing to say you're the body guard of a guy who has been repeatedly shot. XIGNCODE has proven to be ineffective and buggy on every single game it's been deployed on, so I don't really see how being deployed lots of places is a plus, since it has not worked in any of them.

    The only reason for the former wording is because, as I've said before, whether this can be effective depends entirely on how much of a focus they make on fighting this battle. There are ways of implementing this software that, at least, make it much more of a giant pain in the [filtered] for those programming bypasses, and in other games have driven some of the bypasses further underground to delay being caught and stopped. But it really depends on the tenacity and investment of the developers to constantly fight. So far, clearly, BHS has not been that diligent in this matter on any front, such as...
    The real solution to the problem of cheating in TERA is to improve the server-side code and make most of the [filtered] cheats people use not possible, as they wouldn't be in a properly coded game.
    Well, yeah, obviously. Pretty much everyone has relayed this message to EME ad nauseum. There's no doubt whatsoever that this is really what BHS needs to do above anything else, and this software is at best a tangent in that process.

    The way xigncode is built, it would not even detect the 2 most popular third party programs even with no bypass whatsoever. They're deploying a water pistol to fight a thunderstorm. It makes no sense, no matter how you want to spin it, which is why people are paranoid about this being a data-mining scam. They deployed a tool that does not have the capability to do what they claim it does which is easily disabled. As far as I can tell, the majority of legitimate players yesterday have started playing illegitimately today because of problems surrounding xigncode.. I just don't understand how any company could be so dense as to think this is a reasonable course of action.
  • I just don't understand how any company could be so dense as to think this is a reasonable course of action.
    And again, just for the sake of the discussion (which is my only point here, not trying to "spin" anything -- I've said all along that it's, at best, pointless), I don't think they're "so dense as to think it's reasonable." I think they're just convinced, based on the fact it's on all their other games and in many other TERA regions, that it's not unreasonable as a baseline, checklist feature to have. Clearly, that "non-logic" is not going to convince anyone, but it only had to convince them for it to be implemented. We have a voice, but not a veto.
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    The only reason for the former wording is because, as I've said before, whether this can be effective depends entirely on how much of a focus they make on fighting this battle. There are ways of implementing this software that, at least, make it much more of a giant pain in the [filtered] for those programming bypasses, and in other games have driven some of the bypasses further underground to delay being caught and stopped (requiring more, slightly more tedious rework). But it really depends on the tenacity and investment of the developers to constantly fight. So far, clearly, BHS has not been that diligent in this matter on any front ...

    In that case, I don't think ANY developer has been "diligent" in that matter; I've yet to see a game running XIGNCODE that didn't still have Chinese gold farm bots, hackers, cheaters, and dozens of exploits. In the world of anti-cheat software, xign is gutter-trash tier. The absolute worst. Given zero notice, NA players came up with multiple ways to bypass it on the same day it was announced. In korea it didn't even take them that long. Heck, the device used to cheat in this game is unaffected by it even if you don't bypass the software at all, that's how bad it is, so all the big bad proxy users and meter users were largely unaffected and probably bypassed it anyway just to not have xigncode on their pc. In BDO, where it's also used, people bypass it every day and the issues are rampant with botters and cheaters. In BnS it was the same. How many times, and across how many games, does xign have to fail before we can just stop pretending there's a possibility for it to be good if the publisher/developer "tries harder"? And now players are going to waste time submitting videos and photographic evidence to prove what anyone who plays korean mmos has known for years: that xign is a total waste of a publisher's money.

    Legit, xigncode is so bad that it doesn't even stop cheatengine from running. IT HAS "CHEAT" IN THE NAME M8 :lol:
  • um, I think they said to talk to CS if you have a problem? anyway I do know a few Guild members who get disconnected more then a few times already today, so I seems to only affect a few people but not all. o: Then there is the random in global who says they have a lot of lag XD
  • ChristinChristin ✭✭✭✭
    RKC wrote: »
    As of the moment It doesnt mess with my Razer synapse. Why would it WOW allows it why not tera hmmmmm.

    Anyway if ever they do. I have no choice but to stop playing Tera. I have my reasons why I use macros.

    So it doesn't even stop people from using macros then? Why do you need macros?

    So already it doesn't stop one of the things it says it stops.
  • Well the argument is too short to be noticed and mEME is still figuring out how to play their own game
  • Is not better pay 3 or 4 progrmmers to make you a custom software?? Unknown for all, and then, not so easy to quit??
    I think it will be even chaper than this XC.

    For this kind of software, it's probably not because maintaining compatibility with various Windows and other software updates is a giant pain, and doing anything like this in a secure way is really hard. (And for something like anti-cheat software, as we see clearly, you're basically painting a giant target on your back.) There's already enough consternation about how reputable XIGNCODE is (partly because their English presence isn't very good, and they're not known to be effective for this game), but doing it "in-house" is an even higher risk. It's better to pass that risk onto another company who makes that their entire focus and mission (which, for all its flaws, this company does for a very large number of Korean games). At the end of the day, as far as reputation goes, being able to say they were part of the world's biggest videogame of 2017 is not insignificant for them and their reputation (nor for BHS, obviously), but clearly they need more work and focus to accomplish anything useful with TERA.

    Your wording here is not quite right in my opinion. For instance you say "Is not known to work for this game" where you mean "is known not to work for this game" small difference, big meaning. Also, it's not really a good thing to say you're the body guard of a guy who has been repeatedly shot. XIGNCODE has proven to be ineffective and buggy on every single game it's been deployed on, so I don't really see how being deployed lots of places is a plus, since it has not worked in any of them.

    The real solution to the problem of cheating in TERA is to improve the server-side code and make most of the [filtered] cheats people use not possible, as they wouldn't be in a properly coded game.

    people will always find a way around even the best defence provided there is an incentive.
    the real solution to the problem of cheating is to remove the incentive to cheat.
    for example, most people don't cheat in offline games because you would only be harming your own experience.
    unfortunately, this is much harder in an MMO... I can sort of see how it could be done, but it would require a completely different reward system.
  • edited June 2018
    voidy wrote: »
    How many times, and across how many games, does xign have to fail before we can just stop pretending there's a possibility for it to be good if the publisher/developer "tries harder"? And now players are going to waste time submitting videos and photographic evidence to prove what anyone who plays korean mmos has known for years: that xign is a total waste of a publisher's money.

    Again, for the sake of the argument, if it's so true that 1) the software is so laughably trivial to bypass (and "everybody's doing it"), and 2) that it's completely ineffectual and (by design) can't possibly negatively impact anything "evil" any player might want to do anyway, then it raises the question: what are people so mad about? Amidst all this, I think that's the point that has to resonate clearly with EME. If it's only "people shouldn't have to do this to play the game" and "it's a stupid decision that makes no sense," I don't imagine that'll change much at this point (again, given that they've already done this in all their other games anyway; stupid or not, they're all in now). (Likewise, after deploying this to 30 million people with PUBG, they're not going to be that afraid of its risks anymore, regardless of what we think. TERA is a small spec in comparison.)

    Some clear points for me, anyway:
    1. This should have been more clearly communicated and sooner than it was. The fact this wasn't done contributed to the fear and uncertainty about the change.
    2. Adding this software doesn't in any way absolve BHS of the need to actually solve the exploits in the server code and to fix all the myriad "never trust the client"-related lapses. Without an absolute and promptly-actioned commitment to this, all other efforts will fail.
    3. EME needs to take more concerted action to address cheaters, exploiters, and bots via moderation and human intervention, and this software doesn't absolve them of any of that responsibility either.

    In general, stupidity of this situation notwithstanding, I know there are at least some people at EME who do actually care about this game and want to make it better (if no one has that goal, there's nothing to discuss), and if they have that as a goal, the above kinds of points are important.
  • LaemieLaemie ✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    Hey all.
    A guildie of mine is havin an issue with this xigncode thingy.
    So shes playing Tera on a Mac and shes using nvidia geforce cloud thingy to play. With this Xigncode, its not allowed anymore and she can nolonger play. Any of you using the same thing and having any solutions?

    Shes a new player, shes been playin a few months and she really loves the game. Never heard a complain ever, would be really sad if theres no fix for her.

    Was to make a new thread but well, figured i'd just put this here.
  • Laemie wrote: »
    So shes playing Tera on a Mac and shes using nvidia geforce cloud thingy to play. With this Xigncode, its not allowed anymore and she can nolonger play. Any of you using the same thing and having any solutions?

    I recommend she contact EME in a ticket about this situation. This is something they may have to work with Nvidia to solve, but it's something they clearly have done before since PUBG is working there. Likely either EME or Nvidia has to change some options on their end to make this work again.
  • All I know is that Tera now takes an actual 14 minutes to load in to the game now since the patch this morning. Absolutely ridiculous. It also did virtually nothing. Still saw people posting DPS meters in pug groups, still see gold spammers in chat. Still saw botters on twangi gaurdian quest. This did nothing but slow down tera load times, cause my mouse intermittently stop detecting, cause more random memory crashes and disconnects and [filtered] me off. Get this bull crap the hell off my pc. You. [filtered]. up.
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    Again, for the sake of the argument, if it's so true that 1) the software is so laughably trivial to bypass (and "everybody's doing it"), and 2) that it's completely ineffectual and (by design) can't possibly negatively impact anything "evil" any player might want to do anyway, then it raises the question: what are people so mad about?

    And to me the answer seems fairly obvious. If, for argument's sake, I were someone who were bypassing xigncode (I'm not, but let's just say I were. For argument's sake), I would still be upset about it because:
    1. It forces me to choose between quitting the game or playing the game using third party tools if I don't want sketchy garbage (that doesn't even do its job) installed on my pc.
    2. Despite massive community outcry against it and solid proof that it doesn't even work, EME went ahead with it anyway and didn't even communicate it until someone found out, and only communicated again on the issue to close a thread about it.
    3. Already we're getting people who can't log in, or who crash constantly. My guild's been dead this afternoon, on a content release date. It's never been dead on a content release date. Even if, for argument's sake, I weren't affected by xigncode, I wouldn't want to play in a community that either left the game when presented with the options seen in #1, or who couldn't log in at all because they were running minecraft in the background or something. I certainly wouldn't want to dungeon with people who can't react because they're getting performance issues whenever xigncode decides to scan something on top of this poorly optimized bloated mmo. And I wouldn't want to waste time explaining the bypass method to dozens of people every time I log in, but I'd sure be tempted if it appeared to be affecting performance, which it has. For argument's sake, of course.

    From a practical standpoint, the hypothetical bypasser has to deal with a community affected by EME/BHS's poor management of xigncode, which is itself complete trash. I'm already pissed because even though my PC is a beast and runs decently no matter what, I've already had runs where I've wasted tons of consumables waiting around while we wiped and wiped and wiped and then waited while people relogged and relogged and relogged because their games were performing like shite after every boss, and all after this update. If you want to say that's a coincidence, fine, but come on. In addition to the practical issue of not being able to enjoy team play when most of the team is having performance issues now, the communication was extremely poor, the software itself is proven trash across multiple games, and players had 45 pages to show why they were upset and didn't want this garbage before a mod predictably locked the thread. If the question is nagging at you so much, I suppose you could always peruse through it again?
This discussion has been closed.