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Stopping the Potential Exodus

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Comments

  • Yamazuki wrote: »
    vkobe wrote: »
    Yamazuki wrote: »
    Soffyasd wrote: »
    Well, this is a great time to quit the game. Gonna look for new mmos...

    Good luck finding one that doesn't use flawed code to check for cheaters, many use the same one or its competitors, or their own and keep it a secret.

    western mmorpg or ff 14 :3

    Western games have done it, they just don't announce it to you in the form of splash images/logos. They use their own, and sometimes hide things in patches and remove it later for ban waves. Some people were upset before when Blizzard had done it, but you know, in the grand scheme of things it's only a very small group that really makes issue of these sorts of things.

    You generally agree to these sort of things happening when you create your account anyways.

    The problem isn't so much an anti-cheat measure as its forcing the players to get their systems owned. Rootkits are not a valid approach to combat cheaters. Luckily, it looks like this kind of thing isn't nearly as common in the west as in Korea. May be why it is going over so poorly on TERA NA. Well, that and all the problems it wound up causing on top of the whole rootkit issue. Also, just because something may technically be allowed does not necessarily mean it is ethical behavior.
  • KillerPenguinsKillerPenguins ✭✭✭✭
    The real problem with xigncode vs other anti-cheat solutions is that generally when a competent anti-cheat is deployed, the loudest whiners are the people who are/were cheating, because they'll struggle to do so going forward.. but with xigncode, the only people complaining are the legitimate players who don't want to install the easy-to-use bypass and can't play tera comfortably without it anymore. Any time I complain about this, people just say "yeah i bypassed it, go look at reddit to download it..." It might be funny if it wasn't so depressing.
  • aeee98aeee98 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    To be dead honest, xigncode gives more false positives than actual positives even in other games. Most hackers (I mean 99% of them) remained hacking within 24 hours after implementation, which shows how weak the software is.

    On the other hand, xigncode removes you from play from the simplest of issues when you are playing legitimately, to the point that it is actually better to hack a bypass than to worry about gameplay when playing properly.

    You know a software is garbage, when it gives more issues than benefits. Cheaters in general are absolutely unaffected, and the normal players suffer.

    I personally think that xigncode should just be removed at this point. Of course there is no intention of EME to fish data by using this, but even then, you are using the wrong solution to a problem that didn't exist.
  • tisnotmetisnotme ✭✭✭✭
    RandomElin wrote: »
    Yamazuki wrote: »
    Soffyasd wrote: »
    Well, this is a great time to quit the game. Gonna look for new mmos...

    Good luck finding one that doesn't use flawed code to check for cheaters, many use the same one or its competitors, or their own and keep it a secret.

    Actually, I think TERA EU may actually still be xigncode-free (not positive about that, though). If it is than I guess there are xigncode-free servers. They are just not EME's. I think I may know where the exodus will be to if EME doesn't fix this xigncode-induced quagmire.

    id kinda be surprised if this is the case and if it is its only a matter of time before they introduce it as gameforge use's it on others of their games
    like S.K.I.L.L. - Special Force 2
    https://board.skill.gameforge.com/index.php/Thread/15532-XIGNCODE-doesn-t-work/
    https://en.skill.gameforge.com/
  • tisnotme wrote: »
    RandomElin wrote: »
    Yamazuki wrote: »
    Soffyasd wrote: »
    Well, this is a great time to quit the game. Gonna look for new mmos...

    Good luck finding one that doesn't use flawed code to check for cheaters, many use the same one or its competitors, or their own and keep it a secret.

    Actually, I think TERA EU may actually still be xigncode-free (not positive about that, though). If it is than I guess there are xigncode-free servers. They are just not EME's. I think I may know where the exodus will be to if EME doesn't fix this xigncode-induced quagmire.

    id kinda be surprised if this is the case and if it is its only a matter of time before they introduce it as gameforge use's it on others of their games
    like S.K.I.L.L. - Special Force 2
    https://board.skill.gameforge.com/index.php/Thread/15532-XIGNCODE-doesn-t-work/
    https://en.skill.gameforge.com/

    I think I saw a topic in the TERA EU forums with some foolish players asking to get their systems owned by xigncode. Players that knew better were also taking part in that topic. I'm pretty sure that TERA EU is xigncode-free for now. I also haven't seen any credible evidence that there are any plans to add xigncode to TERA EU.

    Interesting that GameForge does have one game with xigncode, though. Did not know that till you mentioned it. Having one game with xigncode doesn't necessarily mean that GameForge is going to go crazy and add it to all their games.

    Personally, I find requiring installing a rootkit just to play a game to be highly unethical. For something like xigncode to be accepted by the player base, I suspect it would require having it from close to the beginning. That way the player base would be self selected to those who just don't care. I'd still consider it to be unethical, though. I don't believe TERA NA or TERA EU are what one would call new. I suspect that is why there has been so much fallout from EME deciding to push out xigncode even though the player base solidified long ago. I suspect GameForge may be smart enough to realise this.
  • I no longer believe EME's xigncode is a rootkit. Still sounds like it was causing various problem including decreased performance, breaking the capability of running TERA on non-windows operating systems, and even causing system stability issues. As such, it may still have the potential to drive many players from TERA NA. The game is currently broken for me so I can't personally ascertain if the earlier reports of Velika being close to a ghost town are still accurate.
  • StarkhoeStarkhoe ✭✭✭
    What you're suggesting isn't going to happen. And if you ask me, I think that the sheep mentality that keeps the game afloat, is also what keeps preventing it from getting the players to cause real change. There will not be a massive exodus, only a handful of paranoid deserters. People will prefer to simply bypass the malware instead of leaving. For the time being there is only a temporary uproar players are attempting to address with screenshots and examples from their own system, or more Google vomits without any official response to address them. In other words: no real change. Not one that I can see so, at least. Talk is cheap. And people sure love to talk and BHS/EME dont like addressing people. Meaning, even if you`re idea was good, it wouldn't happen.
  • Starkhoe wrote: »
    What you're suggesting isn't going to happen. And if you ask me, I think that the sheep mentality that keeps the game afloat, is also what keeps preventing it from getting the players to cause real change. There will not be a massive exodus, only a handful of paranoid deserters. People will prefer to simply bypass the malware instead of leaving. For the time being there is only a temporary uproar players are attempting to address with screenshots and examples from their own system, or more Google vomits without any official response to address them. In other words: no real change. Not one that I can see so, at least. Talk is cheap. And people sure love to talk and BHS/EME dont like addressing people. Meaning, even if you`re idea was good, it wouldn't happen.

    It's actually already a known that it is driving some players away. The question is, how many will it drive away. Based upon reports I've seen, it sounds like TERA NA really isn't in that great of a state after xigncode. As such, it sounds like you are underestimating the effect. Just because someone can bypass xigncode in a manner that may very well ultimately get them banned does not mean that it is the approach they will choose. Especially when there are still xigncode-free tera servers like the TERA EU servers. Furthermore, it looks like the TERA EU servers will stay xigncode-free. If you are not a "cheater", there isn't really much incentive to bypass xigncode, stay, and maybe get banned when you could instead just go to TERA EU. After all, its not like EME has code out and endorsed bypassing xigncode.
  • RandomElin wrote: »
    Starkhoe wrote: »
    What you're suggesting isn't going to happen. And if you ask me, I think that the sheep mentality that keeps the game afloat, is also what keeps preventing it from getting the players to cause real change. There will not be a massive exodus, only a handful of paranoid deserters. People will prefer to simply bypass the malware instead of leaving. For the time being there is only a temporary uproar players are attempting to address with screenshots and examples from their own system, or more Google vomits without any official response to address them. In other words: no real change. Not one that I can see so, at least. Talk is cheap. And people sure love to talk and BHS/EME dont like addressing people. Meaning, even if you`re idea was good, it wouldn't happen.

    It's actually already a known that it is driving some players away. The question is, how many will it drive away. Based upon reports I've seen, it sounds like TERA NA really isn't in that great of a state after xigncode. As such, it sounds like you are underestimating the effect. Just because someone can bypass xigncode in a manner that may very well ultimately get them banned does not mean that it is the approach they will choose. Especially when there are still xigncode-free tera servers like the TERA EU servers. Furthermore, it looks like the TERA EU servers will stay xigncode-free. If you are not a "cheater", there isn't really much incentive to bypass xigncode, stay, and maybe get banned when you could instead just go to TERA EU. After all, its not like EME has code out and endorsed bypassing xigncode.

    I meant its not like EME has come out and endorsed bypassing xigncode.
  • StarkhoeStarkhoe ✭✭✭
    RandomElin wrote: »
    It's actually already a known that it is driving some players away. The question is, how many will it drive away. Based upon reports I've seen, it sounds like TERA NA really isn't in that great of a state after xigncode. As such, it sounds like you are underestimating the effect. Just because someone can bypass xigncode in a manner that may very well ultimately get them banned does not mean that it is the approach they will choose. Especially when there are still xigncode-free tera servers like the TERA EU servers. Furthermore, it looks like the TERA EU servers will stay xigncode-free. If you are not a "cheater", there isn't really much incentive to bypass xigncode, stay, and maybe get banned when you could instead just go to TERA EU. After all, its not like EME has code out and endorsed bypassing xigncode.

    You are correct in saying that Tera NA is not in a good shape, population wise. Though in terms of a mass exodus, a few hundred players (and i`m being very generous about that estimated number) are simply not enough. I mean, yeah, some threads have even began looking like a "who has a cooler desktop competition", its quite fantastic how many well placed arguments people have shown without getting any official response from EME. But be that as it may, i`m afraid that you would need at least a couple of thousands of deserters to start making a real dent in their profits, enough to put the game at a real position of risk and force BHS`s hand into removing this malware. This is not about underestimating what can be done in theory, this is about pure statistics combating an issue practically. I have seen many controversies come and go in this place, but only a handful of changes have actually been done by BHS. And most of those changes didn't happen because the community as a whole "made" them happen, or even wanted these changes in the first place. Which is why i`m saying that sheep mentality is op, and BHS/EME knows it. Think about it, if I was wrong about this, then BHS/EME would be WAY more transparent. Not because they would want too, but because they would have no choice. You don`t have to take my word for any of this, just look around and read the replies posted even by the EME staff members themselves. Read those and you tell me if these people sound concerned about the well being of the game itself, or even concerned about the community itself. Some replies are even so blatantly offensive and smug, they make as much sense as a [filtered] kid swallowing a fork. I can`t even believe someone actually hired some of these people.

    Yeah I heard about how things are in Tera EU. However that option is simply not appealing enough. Or, not for me at least. Apart from having to start from scratch, which would be quite the hassle, I don`t think that Tera EU is some magical place without any problems of its own. If push came to shove, id rather just quit Tera altogether. As for them banning everyone that bypass this malware, id like to see them make the mistake of terminating every single account that chooses to use a bypass. That`s like saying that they will get rid of every single person that uses side clients or meters. see now THAT scenario would be a REAL self inflicted exodus.
  • Starkhoe wrote: »
    RandomElin wrote: »
    It's actually already a known that it is driving some players away. The question is, how many will it drive away. Based upon reports I've seen, it sounds like TERA NA really isn't in that great of a state after xigncode. As such, it sounds like you are underestimating the effect. Just because someone can bypass xigncode in a manner that may very well ultimately get them banned does not mean that it is the approach they will choose. Especially when there are still xigncode-free tera servers like the TERA EU servers. Furthermore, it looks like the TERA EU servers will stay xigncode-free. If you are not a "cheater", there isn't really much incentive to bypass xigncode, stay, and maybe get banned when you could instead just go to TERA EU. After all, its not like EME has code out and endorsed bypassing xigncode.

    You are correct in saying that Tera NA is not in a good shape, population wise. Though in terms of a mass exodus, a few hundred players (and i`m being very generous about that estimated number) are simply not enough. I mean, yeah, some threads have even began looking like a "who has a cooler desktop competition", its quite fantastic how many well placed arguments people have shown without getting any official response from EME. But be that as it may, i`m afraid that you would need at least a couple of thousands of deserters to start making a real dent in their profits, enough to put the game at a real position of risk and force BHS`s hand into removing this malware. This is not about underestimating what can be done in theory, this is about pure statistics combating an issue practically. I have seen many controversies come and go in this place, but only a handful of changes have actually been done by BHS. And most of those changes didn't happen because the community as a whole "made" them happen, or even wanted these changes in the first place. Which is why i`m saying that sheep mentality is op, and BHS/EME knows it. Think about it, if I was wrong about this, then BHS/EME would be WAY more transparent. Not because they would want too, but because they would have no choice. You don`t have to take my word for any of this, just look around and read the replies posted even by the EME staff members themselves. Read those and you tell me if these people sound concerned about the well being of the game itself, or even concerned about the community itself. Some replies are even so blatantly offensive and smug, they make as much sense as a [filtered] kid swallowing a fork. I can`t even believe someone actually hired some of these people.

    Yeah I heard about how things are in Tera EU. However that option is simply not appealing enough. Or, not for me at least. Apart from having to start from scratch, which would be quite the hassle, I don`t think that Tera EU is some magical place without any problems of its own. If push came to shove, id rather just quit Tera altogether. As for them banning everyone that bypass this malware, id like to see them make the mistake of terminating every single account that chooses to use a bypass. That`s like saying that they will get rid of every single person that uses side clients or meters. see now THAT scenario would be a REAL self inflicted exodus.

    What replies to the xigncode fallout are you refering to that were made by EME employees? I mean replies from after all chaos started breaking lose after xigncode was pushed out. I haven't seen one. Its almost like EME has become missing in action since the fallout started. I only recall one post by an EME employee in this time frame and it was about loading screens, was short, and appeared rushed. It makes me wonder if something is going on behind the scenes on this. I really don't know what is up with EME, though.
  • StarkhoeStarkhoe ✭✭✭
    RandomElin wrote: »
    What replies to the xigncode fallout are you refering to that were made by EME employees? I mean replies from after all chaos started breaking lose after xigncode was pushed out. I haven't seen one. Its almost like EME has become missing in action since the fallout started. I only recall one post by an EME employee in this time frame and it was about loading screens, was short, and appeared rushed. It makes me wonder if something is going on behind the scenes on this. I really don't know what is up with EME, though.

    I was talking in general about their overall attitude in all manner of things, not just this incident. But sure i`ll be specific. See i`m not going to link you every single reply they ever made in the entire forum because just to further prove a point, because that would take me hours and I don`t care enough about this to do something like that. That would be insane. But here is a good example to what i`m talking about. That comment was posted after they closed the original thread about XIGNCODE.

    Read that and tell me if you feel like you`re in capable hands in here lol
  • Starkhoe wrote: »
    RandomElin wrote: »
    What replies to the xigncode fallout are you refering to that were made by EME employees? I mean replies from after all chaos started breaking lose after xigncode was pushed out. I haven't seen one. Its almost like EME has become missing in action since the fallout started. I only recall one post by an EME employee in this time frame and it was about loading screens, was short, and appeared rushed. It makes me wonder if something is going on behind the scenes on this. I really don't know what is up with EME, though.

    I was talking in general about their overall attitude in all manner of things, not just this incident. But sure i`ll be specific. See i`m not going to link you every single reply they ever made in the entire forum because just to further prove a point, because that would take me hours and I don`t care enough about this to do something like that. That would be insane. But here is a good example to what i`m talking about. That comment was posted after they closed the original thread about XIGNCODE.

    Read that and tell me if you feel like you`re in capable hands in here lol

    That is not a good example of what you are talking about. I don't believe there is one comment from an EME employee in that thread so far.

    The other was from before the fallout had really picked up. That is what I'm referring to. Since the fallout had really kicked into full gear, EME seems to have effectively vanished (save for that one short, rushed looking post that had nothing to do with the fallout) as far as these forums are concerned. I find it had to believe that they are afraid to show their face on the forums. Just what is EME doing?
  • Xerses wrote: »
    I feel like the reason why this(XINGCODE) is more accepted in Korea is because a lot of people who play may play from Internet Cafes. They don't own an actual pc, or they do but it's just for business or educational purposes and not for hobbies like gaming. Where as here in North America pretty much every home in the country has access to a personal computer and we're more protective over what gets installed on our devices. It's just a huge difference in culture between Korea and NA.

    Not here to argue with anyone, it's just an idea. An idea which I'm strongly against. I wonder what EME thought was going to happen. Did they think we'd just lie down and accept it? Or did they foresee the backlash that was to come? If they did foresee it, did they do anything to try to stand up against this for their customers? Many questions left unanswered and EME has been way too silent about this.

    My theory is that EME was pressured into adding xigncode.
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