XIGNCODE DISCUSSION!

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  • clfarron4clfarron4 ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    This is a Gameforge EU staff member commenting on Xigncode and TERA EU:

    GF_Employee_on_Xigncode.PNG

    You can find this comment in an unofficial TERA Discord if you wish to view it yourself.
  • clfarron4clfarron4 ✭✭✭✭
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    nah, forget it, is is just paranoia

    EU laws have not enforced anygame that use Xigncode over there to be removed from their games.
    clfarron4 wrote: »
    You can find this comment in an unofficial TERA Discord if you wish to view it yourself.

    Don't you mean "No-one has yet enforced the EU laws in such a way that companies have to remove Xigncode from their games"?

    Also, since Xigncode being put into the NA build came after 26th May, you're looking at putting something in, not removing it.
  • Well I've been with out a pc since the patch as the damn things bricked my SSD. On my 3rd attempt to log in after patch( numerous memory errors, followed by a BSOD half way through the Xigncod3 launch bar) my SSD refuses to recognize and my pc says no boot device. The pc ran fine with no issues for years, suddenly I update tera with the new malware and bam no pc. Can't even diagnose it right now. Now I've got to waste money I dont have on another hard drive. So pissed off with eme/bhs right now. Most likely won't be reinstalling Tera until they remove this crap.
  • Well I've been with out a pc since the patch as the damn things bricked my SSD. On my 3rd attempt to log in after patch( numerous memory errors, followed by a BSOD half way through the Xigncod3 launch bar) my SSD refuses to recognize and my pc says no boot device. The pc ran fine with no issues for years, suddenly I update tera with the new malware and bam no pc. Can't even diagnose it right now. Now I've got to waste money I dont have on another hard drive. So pissed off with eme/bhs right now. Most likely won't be reinstalling Tera until they remove this crap.

    If theres ever a class action lawsuit that is successful against XIGNCODE, you should be entitled to some money to replaced the damaged ssd hardware. Unfortunately single individuals attempt at a lawsuit is impossible, the cost alone for 1 hr of legal advice would cost you more than an SSD would.
  • In all this discussion about Xigncode3, it has been surprisingly hard to find any actual, confirmed information about Xigncode3. Unfortunately, the information I have been able to find has been almost exclusively negative. What I have seen from the research I have done is:

    1. Xigncode3 does not stop the majority of cheats or illegal programs.

    2a. Xigncode3 does cause issues on many, but not all, machines.

    2b. These issues can range from minor lag or fps drops to inability to run the game, and, in some cases, damage or corruption of the operating system.

    In my hopes to ease my concerns about Xigncode3, I went to Wellbia’s website, and took a look at the Terms of Service (ToS). However, what I found does not inspire trust in Wellbia or Xigncode. The ToS is full of evasive and non-specific language that holds little or no legal meaning.

    For example, the ToS claims that “XIGNCODE3 never shares, rents, or sells the user information arbitrarily and never collects the information which can distinguish an individual.”, but then later states that “XIGNCODE3 provides the illegal activity detected information such as Date, User Name, IP, Hack Tool Name, and etc.” Firstly, I find it hard to believe that User Name and IP would not be considered information to distinguish individuals. Secondly, the ending, “and etc.”, means that there is further, undisclosed information being provided. Thirdly, the phrasing “XIGNCODE3 never shares, rents, or sells the user information arbitrarily”, would be much more comforting if it ended one word earlier. They can sell your information, as long as they don’t do it “arbitrarily”. I am not claiming that XIGNCODE3 or Wellbia collect, sell, or otherwise distribute user information. What I am claiming, is that there is nothing in the ToS preventing them from doing exactly that, and that worries me.

    Even if we assume that XIGNCODE3 is nothing more than the anti-cheat it claims to be, there are still issues. XIGNCODE3 was supposedly introduced to NA Tera to improve player experience, and from what I have seen and read, XIGNCODE3 has done little to improve gameplay experience, and a lot to worsen it.

    All that being said, the thing that concerns me the most is neither XIGNCODE3 nor Wellbia, but the reaction of EME and/or BHS to the concerns of the player. EME, from what I have seen, is actively refusing discussion of this topic. For example, when KitTeaCup responded to and closed the previous thread about XIGNCODE3, her post ended with:

    “I’m going to close this thread and ask that if you want to have a productive conversation about the situation at hand, I and my teammates are happy to talk, but where this thread is going, I’m not allowing this to go any further.

    I look forward to hearing what you have to say.”

    First off, I would like to say that closing the thread was entirely reasonable. Many of the posts within the thread had begun to venture into territory that violated the forum guidelines. What I take issue with is that she said “…if you want to have a productive conversation about the situation at hand, I and my teammates are happy to talk…”, and yet, several days and hundreds of posts later, the second major XIGNCODE3 discussion thread has yet to see KitTeaCup or her teammates. At all. In fact, part of me thinks that they may have been prohibited from talking about the topic at all, either by EME or BHS. During the “[PC] Heroes Oath + Announcement! w/ KitTeaCup & SeanDynamite” twitch stream, there were quite a few questions about XIGNCODE3, and several people asked them to address the topic. However, there was no discussion of XIGNCODE3 whatsoever, and at one point (around 31:30, for those interested), they had the following exchange:

    KTC: “People keep asking about this.”

    SD: “Yea I’m sure they will.”

    While the exchange had no context, it seems to me that this was more than likely referring to XIGNCODE3, as, at this point in time, it was the only repeating question in chat that had not been addressed. If this is true, the implication is that they were either prohibited from discussion of the topic, or simply chose to ignore it. Neither of these options make me feel particularly trusting of EME and its employees

    I am not blaming KitTeaCup, SeanDynamite, or any other EME employee. They have jobs, and rules they need to follow. I am, however, concerned about the behavior of EME and/or BHS. We do not have a right to tell them how to run their game, but I feel as if we should be provided with information. Regardless of your opinions on XIGNCODE3, I think most people would agree that a substantial portion of the community has concerns that have been unaddressed. I sincerely hope that I am proven wrong, and that EME releases an informative post addressing this issue, but as of yet, that has not happened.

    Again, I am not blaming anyone, and I’m not saying that there is some sort of conspiracy. All I am saying is that there is a problem that has not been properly addressed.
  • I currently don't believe EMEs xigncode version is a rootkit. It does sound like it may be touching things it really shouldn't be in the name of anti-cheat, though. This is why I wonder if it would be possible to box it in to a regular non-admin account. Doing so may solve some of the stability problems since the host system would be better protected from it than if it was running as admin.

    Can anyone confirm whether or not xigncode needs to be running as admin on a windows system?
  • clfarron4clfarron4 ✭✭✭✭
    RandomElin wrote: »
    I currently don't believe EMEs xigncode version is a rootkit. It does sound like it may be touching things it really shouldn't be in the name of anti-cheat, though. This is why I wonder if it would be possible to box it in to a regular non-admin account. Doing so may solve some of the stability problems since the host system would be better protected from it than if it was running as admin.

    Can anyone confirm whether or not xigncode needs to be running as admin on a windows system?

    It's a kernel level inject, so it automatically has administrative rights.

  • clfarron4 wrote: »
    RandomElin wrote: »
    I currently don't believe EMEs xigncode version is a rootkit. It does sound like it may be touching things it really shouldn't be in the name of anti-cheat, though. This is why I wonder if it would be possible to box it in to a regular non-admin account. Doing so may solve some of the stability problems since the host system would be better protected from it than if it was running as admin.

    Can anyone confirm whether or not xigncode needs to be running as admin on a windows system?

    It's a kernel level inject, so it automatically has administrative rights.

    I thought it has been pretty much confirmed that that wasn't the case for EME's xigncode, though. Does anyone have info on this in regard to EME's version? I thought it was pretty much self contained to the game directory install wise and not mucking around with the kernel.
  • clfarron4clfarron4 ✭✭✭✭
    RandomElin wrote: »
    clfarron4 wrote: »
    RandomElin wrote: »
    I currently don't believe EMEs xigncode version is a rootkit. It does sound like it may be touching things it really shouldn't be in the name of anti-cheat, though. This is why I wonder if it would be possible to box it in to a regular non-admin account. Doing so may solve some of the stability problems since the host system would be better protected from it than if it was running as admin.

    Can anyone confirm whether or not xigncode needs to be running as admin on a windows system?

    It's a kernel level inject, so it automatically has administrative rights.

    I thought it has been pretty much confirmed that that wasn't the case for EME's xigncode, though. Does anyone have info on this in regard to EME's version? I thought it was pretty much self contained to the game directory install wise and not mucking around with the kernel.

    Look for C:\Windows\xhunter1.sys...

    And look on the forums. There are a few threads of people complaining about the TERA.exe process mashing through disks on which the TERA installation isn't on.
  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2018
    clfarron4 wrote: »
    ElinUsagi wrote: »
    nah, forget it, is is just paranoia

    EU laws have not enforced anygame that use Xigncode over there to be removed from their games.
    clfarron4 wrote: »
    You can find this comment in an unofficial TERA Discord if you wish to view it yourself.

    Don't you mean "No-one has yet enforced the EU laws in such a way that companies have to remove Xigncode from their games"?

    Also, since Xigncode being put into the NA build came after 26th May, you're looking at putting something in, not removing it.

    It isn't enforced because it doesn't violate anything. The GDPR isn't about disallowing data collection, it's about requiring consent, protecting the data collected, collecting data that is necessary for your business, and when requested being able to share information and being transparent. It is mostly aimed at Google and Facebook due to their methods being viewed as questionable, as well as the fact they lack transparency.
  • StarkhoeStarkhoe ✭✭✭
    Enough with the brown noses and privileged puppets. Nobody cares about what lackeys have to say. BHS/EME/Whoever official, as someone from the potato nation which no longer cares if they get banned or not, give up you`re official response, and make it a good one.
  • ElinUsagi wrote: »
    clfarron4 wrote: »
    Look for C:\Windows\xhunter1.sys...

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    1AFDwKX.png

    There is no where to be found.

    Are you actually using what other people had said about that even without testing it yourself?

    Repeating something that other people said without you actually knowing if its true or not is not a good feedback at all.

    So far people that has found that xhunter1.sys file on their pc's have told they have played other games than TERA that used Xigncode (such as BDO or/and BnS) and probably that file was made for another Xigncode version from another game.

    It sounds to me like TERA's version of xigncode is either not installing xhunter1.sys or is hiding it. I suspect it is just not being installed. My suspicion is that xigncode can be configured to mess with the kernel, but EME configured it to just run as a regular process instead.

    I can confirm that I don't see this xhunter1.sys file in the wine bottle that I have TERA installed to. Its possible that may be due to it not being a real windows system, though.
This discussion has been closed.