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  • allofspaceandtimeallofspaceandtime ✭✭✭✭✭
    SageWindu wrote: »
    dmaxcustom wrote: »
    If you don't agree with these prices, then don't buy. That's the bottom line and is how economics works.

    There's a gaping hole in that line of reasoning.

    The nature of this particular, uh... kerfuffle being what it is, the major takeaway might be the exact opposite of what we're trying to achieve with this discussion.

    People buy lootboxes instead of taking buyout option: "Welp, looks like people prefer lootboxes after all. More lootboxes!"
    People take buyout option at current price: "Huh... people really will pay this much for this? This could work to our advantage..."

    Video games being as volatile as they are, simply "not buying" may do (and has done) far more harm than good.

    I understand what you are saying, but I wont buy items just to keep the game running if im not happy with the prices, rng, and character bound. 50 usd for a weapon skin is just way too much for a character bound item....something you will never own. I quit spending money on tera when they quit making account bound flying mounts.
    what people need to keep in mind is that we never really own any of these things we buy from the store in tera. we are only renting them. at anytime, the game can shut down and we are left with nothing. I would like to see it where games like tera and so on make it where you can buy a copy of the game like a console game, and then if the game ever shuts down, you can still play it. yeah you may have to play solo or create your own server or whatever to play with others, but you could continue to play and all the items that you bought can still be used, and maybe they can sell all their store items as account bound from a site for a limited time so that you can have it for your game.
  • counterpointcounterpoint ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16
    S2ElinS2 wrote: »
    voidy wrote: »
    I'd like to believe you on this, but since neither of us have the lootbox rates there's really no way to say for sure how EME arrived at their price point. The Koreans are required to publish the rates for kTera, and surprise surprise they're really small, but for all I know those values could be changed for better (lol) or worse when they arrive in North America. :shrug:

    I've been pushing for them to publish the rates (and implement failure caps) forever, and will keep asking for it. But for now, I can only base it on my own cumulative experience opening boxes in this game, the data of others I know who opened many boxes who shared their success rates in-game and in various threads over the years, and the price ratio of direct-buy vs. rare on the broker after they're given time to settle properly over the years (particularly in years past when there was a bigger market for rares). I can at least say that it's a rare box indeed if the rate is more than 3%. Assuming the rate for these boxes is 3%, you'd have to open 23 boxes to have a 50% chance, and 46 boxes to have a 75% chance. So the average spend to get a lootbox rare at that rate will be around $45 to $50 (with of course some people spending way more than that, and others spending less). I strongly suspect this is why the general reaction in this thread was that the price made sense in comparison to the lootbox alternative, even though it is unquestionably high in the grand scheme of things.

    (I want to be clear here that, for me too, I don't want the weapon skin enough to justify paying that price either, so will probably not buy until it goes on sale at whatever point. But just talking here about the expected price/value of a rare in this TERA market, for better or worse.)

    The chance to get the 2.0 mounts and dyeables and most of the rare itens is 0.1 % . You can check the odds in the Korea Tera > http://iteminfo.nexon.com/probability/tera?sn=478. 3% lol.

    We don't have the same lootboxes as K-TERA at all -- each region is entirely different. There's no evidence at all to suggest that our region's rates are anything as low as 0.1%, or the broker prices you'd see for rares would be astronomically higher than they already are (outside of seasonal/retired items).

    That being said, if the rates were in fact that low for rares, then the $50 buy-out price would be a steal.

    (This particular K-TERA box you linked to had 10 different rares in it, which is something our region doesn't commonly do. Indeed, we have no box like the one listed on that page. But interestingly enough, the odds to get some sort of rare from that box is actually 3.1%.)
  • SageWindu wrote: »
    dmaxcustom wrote: »
    If you don't agree with these prices, then don't buy. That's the bottom line and is how economics works.

    There's a gaping hole in that line of reasoning.

    The nature of this particular, uh... kerfuffle being what it is, the major takeaway might be the exact opposite of what we're trying to achieve with this discussion.

    People buy lootboxes instead of taking buyout option: "Welp, looks like people prefer lootboxes after all. More lootboxes!"
    People take buyout option at current price: "Huh... people really will pay this much for this? This could work to our advantage..."

    Video games being as volatile as they are, simply "not buying" may do (and has done) far more harm than good.

    We have all the power. But we have been convinced we do not.

    All this crap, here and everywhere else, exist because we, the players, cant keep our hands off anything remotely shiny in games. The developers/publishers introduced the microtransaction, loot boxes or whatever and we started buying them like hot cakes ever since. And the funny part is that we blame them for our weakness. Any company exist sorely to make profit, they will ALWAYS try ways to get you to reach your pocket. There is not such a thing a good willed monetization system, never will. You have a duty, as a responsible user of a service to determine how far are you willing to spend on a given thing, because is your wallet, your money. As much as any company offers you something shiny, they do not have a gun in your head, nor your family taken hostage or threatening world peace for that matter. You and only you can decide if what they are offering is expensive or not. And if you buy it, then you are responsible of that action.

    And what terrible thing can happen with the "no buying" option? Besides people not spending money on something terrible trivial.
    This is a game, is not your life, whatever they do, you can simple go away and there is no damage at all for you or anyone else.




  • YamazukiYamazuki ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 16
    CornishRex wrote: »
    > @Yamazuki said:
    > Comparing American prices to European prices is pointless given the vastly different economies.

    Ironically most video games and consoles are usually more expensive in Europe. And major eu countries have similar pricings to USA, if not even higher at times. There shouldn't be such a huge difference in cash shop prices because from my experience companies rarely pander to poor eastern eu countries. Rarely.

    That's because of VAT (something the US doesn't have), and the issue of both regions getting the same number price with no consideration of value of each currency. They also have the same exact systems for both regions, due to being distributed by the same seller. Although, Tera has a different distributor for NA, Eu, and Ru, each with completely different cash shop setup. Anytime regions get their own methods of monetizing a game you will see complete differences in costs for various aspects of the game catered to the given region. Obviously no method is perfect, when a region gets their own method Americans complain they pay more, when it's standardized across regions you have others complaining they pay more than Americans.

    If you prefer how their cash shop as a whole, then there is that option there.
  • ViauxiViauxi ✭✭✭
    Ok, this is borderline parody at this point.
    Every single time I arbitrarily check up on this game, Eme never fails to surprise me with some new micro-transaction nonesense they added to the game.

    Lets see....
    -I can buy freaking FINAL FANTASY XIV: STORMBLOOD with that money.
    - I can buy a game like Nier: Automata, you know, a FULL BLOWN triple-A rpg....
    OR
    -I can buy some trash weapon skin in TERA Online.

    HMMM... I WONDER WHICH IS THE BETTER CHOICE. GEE, BEATS ME. YOU DRIVE A HARD BARGAIN, ENMASSE!



    I think that is literally the single most overpriced cosmetic (for value) I have EVER seen in a f2p game, at least in recent memory. That much money for a Single. WEAPON. Skin. 50 dollars. Not even a bundle. Not even a costume set. Not even dyable. Not account bound. Nothing. Wow. The only publisher I can think of that may have had more ludicrous pricing is Nexon (but nobody is worse than Nexon.......)

    This is why lootboxes and micro-transactions are completely out of control now. Can you even blame these publisher at this point?

    It's like Eme knows the only people left playing this game are whales, just look at these pathetic replies in this thread. This community truly has completely lost any will to demand better service from this company (not surprised). Holy crap, seriously, I cannot believe people will defend paying that much for a weapon skin. And I thought BDO was pretty disgraceful (it is...), but at least they offer you a FULL DYABLE OUTFIT (/w the WEAPONS, complete with custom character animations) and there are no LOOTBOXES in their cash shop.


    Well, you guys get what you ask for I guess. And judging from what I am reading in this thread; yeah, you guys literally asked for this. Can't argue with that. I don't hang around this game much anymore, so what do I know, right? After all, they only put it in the cash shop because they know most of you will probably un-ironically buy it. Maybe when I come back in a couple months, Eme will have a $100 legendary lootbox that guarantees a random premium flying mount! Kinda like what Trion attempted to do in RIFT a few months back.... Except it will probably actually work.

    Welp, back to Fortnite....I can buy like 5 seasons of Battle Passes with $50.


  • RKCRKC ✭✭✭
    People they are just cosmetics, you guys talk like a freaking elin costume makes you imba all of a sudden.

    Let it go. Ive seen people spend more on the loot box and got nothing than the price for a guaranteed skin from said loot box. If the weapon skin is too expensive just get the ordinary one. Why are you all worked up soo much for this. If you think that EU is better then please go leave us alone.

    People always find ways to actually be mad at something.
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭
    SageWindu wrote: »
    dmaxcustom wrote: »
    If you don't agree with these prices, then don't buy. That's the bottom line and is how economics works.

    There's a gaping hole in that line of reasoning.

    The nature of this particular, uh... kerfuffle being what it is, the major takeaway might be the exact opposite of what we're trying to achieve with this discussion.

    People buy lootboxes instead of taking buyout option: "Welp, looks like people prefer lootboxes after all. More lootboxes!"
    People take buyout option at current price: "Huh... people really will pay this much for this? This could work to our advantage..."

    Video games being as volatile as they are, simply "not buying" may do (and has done) far more harm than good.

    I understand what you are saying, but I wont buy items just to keep the game running if im not happy with the prices, rng, and character bound. 50 usd for a weapon skin is just way too much for a character bound item....something you will never own. I quit spending money on tera when they quit making account bound flying mounts.

    I certainly not saying to just blindly throw money at something for the sake of "support" (like someone suggested a few months ago when male brawlers dropped).

    What I am saying is that not buying something but not expressing why you're not buying it may (and, in other games, has) lead to the wrong message being sent.

    That's why we're here on the forums, right? "Power to the people" and all that.
  • vkobevkobe ✭✭✭✭✭
    Viauxi wrote: »
    Ok, this is borderline parody at this point.
    Every single time I arbitrarily check up on this game, Eme never fails to surprise me with some new micro-transaction nonesense they added to the game.

    Lets see....
    -I can buy freaking FINAL FANTASY XIV: STORMBLOOD with that money.
    - I can buy a game like Nier: Automata, you know, a FULL BLOWN triple-A rpg....
    OR
    -I can buy some trash weapon skin in TERA Online.

    And I thought BDO was pretty disgraceful (it is...), but at least they offer you a FULL DYABLE OUTFIT (/w the WEAPONS, complete with custom character animations) and there are no LOOTBOXES in their cash shop.




    buy fallout 4 :3

    but black desert are more greedy, their sale suck and they have less sale than enmasse and for the price of one outfit in black desert you can buy 5 costumes for your cute elin in tera :3
  • allofspaceandtimeallofspaceandtime ✭✭✭✭✭
    SageWindu wrote: »
    SageWindu wrote: »
    dmaxcustom wrote: »
    If you don't agree with these prices, then don't buy. That's the bottom line and is how economics works.

    There's a gaping hole in that line of reasoning.

    The nature of this particular, uh... kerfuffle being what it is, the major takeaway might be the exact opposite of what we're trying to achieve with this discussion.

    People buy lootboxes instead of taking buyout option: "Welp, looks like people prefer lootboxes after all. More lootboxes!"
    People take buyout option at current price: "Huh... people really will pay this much for this? This could work to our advantage..."

    Video games being as volatile as they are, simply "not buying" may do (and has done) far more harm than good.

    I understand what you are saying, but I wont buy items just to keep the game running if im not happy with the prices, rng, and character bound. 50 usd for a weapon skin is just way too much for a character bound item....something you will never own. I quit spending money on tera when they quit making account bound flying mounts.

    I certainly not saying to just blindly throw money at something for the sake of "support" (like someone suggested a few months ago when male brawlers dropped).

    What I am saying is that not buying something but not expressing why you're not buying it may (and, in other games, has) lead to the wrong message being sent.

    That's why we're here on the forums, right? "Power to the people" and all that.

    sorry, I misunderstood you. I know bhs/eme has to have money to run the game, and I also know people will or wont buy items due to cost or not liking said items being sold. I do feel like the prices for items in the store has gotten way out of hand. once a weapon skin is designed and saved to a file, that's it for eme/bhs. they only take up a small amount of data, then its like copy and paste it, then add it to your files when you buy it. its not like they have to make each and every one of them each time someone buys one, yet they are charging 50 usd for one. if more people don't speak out with their voices or wallets and purses, items will only continue to increase in price as time goes on.
    I didn't mind spending 50usd on the account bound flying dragons, and other account bound mounts before those. to me I felt it was worth the money. but they got greedy and stopped doing account bound mounts and started making character bound for the cost of an account bound. then they added a dyeable princess costume , emote, and dance on a daily deal. for all 3 items, is like 70 usd for 1 character. my dresses don't even cost that much lol. I could get behind paying that much if it was account bound then it wouldn't be so bad. copy and paste...that's it. they aren't sewing every dress, creating a new mount or skin every purchase...so why do they cost so much now? maybe they are buying the finest silk in china, having it brought in by carrier pigeons one strand at a time, hand woven by the best tailors and seamstresses in America, and delivered to your door on hands and knees by brad pitt ( which I would totally buy then lol ).
    so yeah....power to the people, and don't give up you power.
    and like someone said above, they did kinda have a 150 loot box with an exclusive mount, but it was a Christmas type deal where you had to spend like 250 or 350 in emp to get the jet cycle. I wanted to throw up right then.
  • ZoknahalZoknahal ✭✭✭✭✭
    Viauxi wrote: »
    Someone is salty AF (snipped everything)

    Comparing how every company deals with microtransactions is quite dumb to be honest. Each company will adjust their microtransactions according to the playerbase they have.

    But lets use your logic. For 50 dollars, i can buy meal for 3 ppl on Fathers day. For 50 dollars, i can buy a brand new pair of shoes. For 50 dollars, i can buy clothes at the nearest bargain sale at the store, etc etc etc.

    Get the point? with 50 dollars, you can buy a lot of stuff, do a lot of stuff, much more proactive than buying a game. And yet why we spent 50 dollars in this game? because we want to. Because we been dealing with EME about the RNG for about the entire life of the game, and finally our voices are heard.

    Also, for 50 dollars, i bet you bought a lot of disappointing games right? because most of the Triple A games coming out, are huge disappointments, and guess what, All new releases are 50 dollars or more, and im sure you will go ahead and buy it like its hot bread, only to then complain how you wasted 50 dollars.

    To each their own, you can now go keep playing the new COD called Fortnite and keep dealing with 12 year old kids pretending to be mature enough to know jackshit or thinking than mother jokes are still a thing. bye bye.
  • counterpointcounterpoint ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 17
    I knew we had discussed this before...
    TWMagimay wrote: »
    PS: Why not both though? Is there a special reason it has to be either lootboxes or bundles/direct sale? Y'all are arguing like these things can't coexist....
    [...]
    Time-limited bundles are one thing, but if the whole store were constantly filled with high-priced premium cosmetics, it might scare away new customers with sticker shock, even though the option to buy lootboxes and take their chances exists. The high price only makes sense when you already understand what you're comparing it to (lootboxes).

    If they had just kept the rare versions behind lootboxes only, even if the rare were as expensive or more on average, no one would have complained about the "high price" because it's hidden. I'm not trying to say that 4995 is a good or fair price for a weapon skin at all (I'm not buying), but it just goes to show why companies like EME have relied on lootboxes for so long.
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭
    If they had just kept the rare versions behind lootboxes only, even if the rare were as expensive or more on average, no one would have complained about the "high price" because it's hidden. I'm not trying to say that 4995 is a good or fair price for a weapon skin at all (I'm not buying), but it just goes to show why companies like EME have relied on lootboxes for so long.

    You remember those Frost... something outfits from earlier in the year, right? There was the same action as now - lootboxes and direct-buy - but the direct-buy option was only, what, 1995EMP? People rejoiced, myself included (even though I didn't care for the outfit itself), even when a spokesman said "I'm not sure if we'll stick with this."

    Hell, I remember the joy was so profound that it made people forgive and forget EME's previous transgressions up to that point.
  • counterpointcounterpoint ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18
    SageWindu wrote: »
    Hell, I remember the joy was so profound that it made people forgive and forget EME's previous transgressions up to that point.
    Oh, now that is definitely not true. This community never forgives, and never forgets. lol

    Seriously, though, in that case the lootboxes were also only 95 EMP. I suspect they knew the outfit wasn't going to be that popular no matter what, so they were trying to see if a lower price point would help at all. I guess it didn't help...

    (But hey, it's not like I'd object in the slightest to all the cash shop prices being cut in half. I expect they chose the current prices because it the optimal balance point according to their data, but only they know...)
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 18
    SageWindu wrote: »
    Hell, I remember the joy was so profound that it made people forgive and forget EME's previous transgressions up to that point.
    Oh, now that is definitely not true. This community never forgives, and never forgets. lol

    Aside: It didn't last long. If memory serves, this was the same week as the costume race change (or impending lack thereof) debacle.

    But I digress.
  • EvetteEvette
    edited June 18
    Viauxi wrote: »
    Ok, this is borderline parody at this point.
    Every single time I arbitrarily check up on this game, Eme never fails to surprise me with some new micro-transaction nonesense they added to the game.

    Lets see....
    -I can buy freaking FINAL FANTASY XIV: STORMBLOOD with that money.
    - I can buy a game like Nier: Automata, you know, a FULL BLOWN triple-A rpg....
    OR
    -I can buy some trash weapon skin in TERA Online.

    HMMM... I WONDER WHICH IS THE BETTER CHOICE. GEE, BEATS ME. YOU DRIVE A HARD BARGAIN, ENMASSE!



    I think that is literally the single most overpriced cosmetic (for value) I have EVER seen in a f2p game, at least in recent memory. That much money for a Single. WEAPON. Skin. 50 dollars. Not even a bundle. Not even a costume set. Not even dyable. Not account bound. Nothing. Wow. The only publisher I can think of that may have had more ludicrous pricing is Nexon (but nobody is worse than Nexon.......)

    This is why lootboxes and micro-transactions are completely out of control now. Can you even blame these publisher at this point?

    It's like Eme knows the only people left playing this game are whales, just look at these pathetic replies in this thread. This community truly has completely lost any will to demand better service from this company (not surprised). Holy crap, seriously, I cannot believe people will defend paying that much for a weapon skin. And I thought BDO was pretty disgraceful (it is...), but at least they offer you a FULL DYABLE OUTFIT (/w the WEAPONS, complete with custom character animations) and there are no LOOTBOXES in their cash shop.


    Well, you guys get what you ask for I guess. And judging from what I am reading in this thread; yeah, you guys literally asked for this. Can't argue with that. I don't hang around this game much anymore, so what do I know, right? After all, they only put it in the cash shop because they know most of you will probably un-ironically buy it. Maybe when I come back in a couple months, Eme will have a $100 legendary lootbox that guarantees a random premium flying mount! Kinda like what Trion attempted to do in RIFT a few months back.... Except it will probably actually work.

    Welp, back to Fortnite....I can buy like 5 seasons of Battle Passes with $50.


    I prettie much knew the thread was going to have people defending the price as they are most likely people that have gotten used to the way it is now and have not played games as long as I have to know what it was like many years before lootboxes. Guess I'm an old fart, its another reason I havent replied to this thread that I created in so long... but you prettie much summed it up better than me sir.

    I've just gotten so tired of having it slap me in the face and destroy all the games I loved: Aion, GW2, Forsaken World, Elderscrolls Online and BDO etc are a few off the top of my mind. I just cant summon the energy anymore to voice it in a brick wall for people to understand that they are literally taking advantage of you, they are making more than enough to support their staff and the games development. Its called greed guys.

    I'm fully aware that going P2P is risky as this generation of gamers have gotten so used to having their games free, which is a total shame, because the P2P model was the best. WoW is still sticking strong to it and not slipping like so many into the lootbox game, but WoW is an old game now, so its understandable that people would slowly drop off it. I just hoped that every new generation of game would take on the P2P model..

    If games sticked to the P2P model, by this time now, those awesome costumes you see in that shop would not be there, there would be no shop at all. Those costumes would be in the game, in some form or manner, be it through rare npc spawns, ingame money or a type of fashion profession. I know you can purchase them via the broker (only AFTER someone has purchased it via RL money), but please think for a moment, what if, just what if, costumes like these where never placed in a shop for RL money in ALL games at all. What if the normal way of getting these things was through effort?

    This was the world of gaming I lived in. You worked for your [filtered] in the game, there was no cash shop and P2P games was normal. Publishers cared more for their community and game develop, rather than their bank account.

    If you can open your mind to my words and see it my way, then you will understand why I created this post and all of the people that sided with me. But if you cannot then too much time has already past and its hopeless.

    Just to add, yes I do have Elite Status in this game. As I find the monthly subscription the normal way of supporting the games development and upkeep. Wouldnt it be interesting if all costumes on that shop were free to Elite Status members? ..P2P might even become popular again :P I'll stop talking this crazy talk now. Its total maddness.
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