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Dreadspire is build for `Elitist`?

2

Comments

  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    DL7MMWLJ3W wrote: »
    Why are people calling it DSU (Dreadspire Uppers)?

    I'm assuming it's a rerelease of older versions of it. In those versions, Dreadspire had the lower floors which just about anyone could complete, and then the upper floors which were the real meaty parts that 99% of the population didn't even bother with. Dreadspire lowers was a fun boss rush kinda thing that gave nice rewards at the end of it. Dreadspire uppers was absolute cancer reserved for only the strongest groups.
  • dmaxcustom wrote: »
    No. You need to have variety and content behind skill on MMOs. There are content for low skilled people and content for high skilled ones, and you get to it by you and your friends merits and effort. What is wrong with that?

    Implementation is a thing though, and we will see how it plays out.

    You mean "geared" instead of skilled, right? As a veteran of tons of MMOs, some with similar gear requirements for content, having gear =/= having skill. One skilled tank/healer combo, with a couple of competent DPS can carry one player to all the gear in the game, but that doesn't mean that the player in question gains any skill. My favorite example of this was a DPS class crying for 30 minutes because neither of the healers had "appropriate" gear, and then, when the boss did it's special, this same DPS, in all the right gear, died because they didn't move out of the attack. All the gear, none of the skill, not even the basic skill required to know that "red == bad".

    I'm all for separating the wheat from the chaff, I just wish that games supported a "Who was carried to their gear, and who actually earned it" setting, so that when one looks at the gear, one knows how the player got it.
  • voidyvoidy ✭✭✭✭✭
    DEDR9HHP9A wrote: »
    Its not uppers or lowers. Its now 10 floors, if you wipe it uses up a run and starts you from floor 1.

    WELP. :lol:
    That sucks if it's all hard floors lmao. RIP
  • dmaxcustom wrote: »
    No. You need to have variety and content behind skill on MMOs. There are content for low skilled people and content for high skilled ones, and you get to it by you and your friends merits and effort. What is wrong with that?

    Implementation is a thing though, and we will see how it plays out.

    You mean "geared" instead of skilled, right? As a veteran of tons of MMOs, some with similar gear requirements for content, having gear =/= having skill. One skilled tank/healer combo, with a couple of competent DPS can carry one player to all the gear in the game, but that doesn't mean that the player in question gains any skill. My favorite example of this was a DPS class crying for 30 minutes because neither of the healers had "appropriate" gear, and then, when the boss did it's special, this same DPS, in all the right gear, died because they didn't move out of the attack. All the gear, none of the skill, not even the basic skill required to know that "red == bad".

    I'm all for separating the wheat from the chaff, I just wish that games supported a "Who was carried to their gear, and who actually earned it" setting, so that when one looks at the gear, one knows how the player got it.

    ...
    Jesus. Things are so bad here that people have the need to make these absurd clarifications?

    Alright.
    Fine.

    I do fully understand that gear does not equal skill.
    However I have no idea how a game can filter people via skill. How do you measure in a matchmaking situation "skill or experience?" Therefore it stand to reason that the game will filter via "gear" or some other quantifiable method. Admittedly I am not a developer, but common sense says that is not doable.

    What I meant with my statement is that I do not see any sort of issue with players that are skilled and/or experienced, and that also have the best available gear to be picky about who they want to accompany them to go to the advertised "hardest content in the game".

    I think that it stand to reason that there is and should be content in games designed for those types players and they should be rewarded for those efforts. And if me or anyone else wants to be there, well, do what you need to do to improve yourself and gain the merits for that. What is the problem with that?
  • dmaxcustom wrote: »
    dmaxcustom wrote: »
    No. You need to have variety and content behind skill on MMOs. There are content for low skilled people and content for high skilled ones, and you get to it by you and your friends merits and effort. What is wrong with that?

    Implementation is a thing though, and we will see how it plays out.

    You mean "geared" instead of skilled, right? As a veteran of tons of MMOs, some with similar gear requirements for content, having gear =/= having skill. One skilled tank/healer combo, with a couple of competent DPS can carry one player to all the gear in the game, but that doesn't mean that the player in question gains any skill. My favorite example of this was a DPS class crying for 30 minutes because neither of the healers had "appropriate" gear, and then, when the boss did it's special, this same DPS, in all the right gear, died because they didn't move out of the attack. All the gear, none of the skill, not even the basic skill required to know that "red == bad".

    I'm all for separating the wheat from the chaff, I just wish that games supported a "Who was carried to their gear, and who actually earned it" setting, so that when one looks at the gear, one knows how the player got it.

    ...
    Jesus. Things are so bad here that people have the need to make these absurd clarifications?

    Alright.
    Fine.

    I do fully understand that gear does not equal skill.
    However I have no idea how a game can filter people via skill. How do you measure in a matchmaking situation "skill or experience?" Therefore it stand to reason that the game will filter via "gear" or some other quantifiable method. Admittedly I am not a developer, but common sense says that is not doable.

    What I meant with my statement is that I do not see any sort of issue with players that are skilled and/or experienced, and that also have the best available gear to be picky about who they want to accompany them to go to the advertised "hardest content in the game".

    I think that it stand to reason that there is and should be content in games designed for those types players and they should be rewarded for those efforts. And if me or anyone else wants to be there, well, do what you need to do to improve yourself and gain the merits for that. What is the problem with that?

    That's kind of the point. Gear scores are great and all, but in the end, unless you actually know who you're dealing with, they're also largely meaningless. Ironically, I agree with you about the content. As I said, I don't have an issue with separating the "wheat from the chaff". I know that I've been in the upper echelon of players in some MMOs, and in others, I'd be high tier, but not quite high enough for some stuff, usually through lack of motivation to get there. In DDO, for example, I could easily run in the high tier stuff, but most of my guild there can't, and so, I don't. I enjoy hanging out, and doing whatever, even trying to do the harder content, knowing we're likely not going to be able to. That doesn't mean I don't think it has a place in games, it just means that I'm not all that fussed about it if I can't get in.
  • kamizumakamizuma ✭✭✭✭
    some content is not for everyone. I'm fine with and accept the fact that I will not be running Dreadspire :)
  • vkobevkobe ✭✭✭✭✭
    So, according with these announcement :
    https://forums.enmasse.com/tera/discussion/27891/dreadspire-announcements#latest

    I`m really aware about these, and.. what i`m afraid has just happen,
    TERA seems planing to degradated all low player into bottom of the ocean,
    and i think.. thats the reason TERA not implemented 10 man dungeon anymore.

    According with those announcement,
    Seem to be DS would be equally with 4/5 stars dungeon,
    with the rule, once time wipe = game over,
    this dungeon will seek perfection beyond everything, and degradated every low and unexperience player left behind,
    because player would tend to be selective and more `Elitist`.

    (Elitist = According to my understanding, Elitist is an act of certain player which is tend to be superior because they have better skills, better experience, better gear, and better in everything. This behavior lead to discrimination between player, and the worst part, Elitist player tend to be `Ignorance`).

    Actually i`m not whining because i`m lack competence in TERA,
    but if you build so many dungeon with a high requirements,
    that would be less enjoyment for community, because automatically they would selective player, stressed,
    and not all player can be participated, even with decent gear.
    otherwise from that.., there is no such valuable reward in higher dungeon in TERA right now,
    few player thinking.. doesn't have any point to grind it.

    I`m a bit `dissapointed`, but.. thats all,
    nothing that i can do, since TERA was a free-to-play MMORPG,
    and the game developer can do what ever they want.
    More `Elitist` means more money right?

    Did the game developer interested to bring back 10 man dungeon,
    or maybe Dreadspire with 10 man? why not? is that hard?
    well.. its seem hard for ENMASSE and BHS..

    Any taught from everyone?
    Did Dreadspire is build for `Elitist` player?

    is build for skilled players :3
  • vkobevkobe ✭✭✭✭✭
    kamizuma wrote: »
    some content is not for everyone. I'm fine with and accept the fact that I will not be running Dreadspire :)

    and be richest player and have the best avatar :lol:
  • Since the last big update where BHS / EME said they were going to make changes to the dungeons so it wouldn't pay to run lowers if you had higher gear, or something to that effect.

    As a DPS toon I went from waiting 15+ minutes in que for the so called trash dungeons, aka SF, KC, RG, to almost instant que pops, and almost always a higher toon often more doing them.

    So if their intentions are to make the DS Super Elitest only, don't seem to be many taking it up as they all coming into the trash dungeons.

    The biggest problem with Tera IMHO, and not just Tera really but most modern MMO's, they make too much stuff non tradeable.

    Now, if they made everything tradeable, even if it was by trade broker only, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about elitests and lowers, as those who have the skill and gear would farm the highest dungeons, sell the gear to those who can't, win win for all.

    I remember the old days of PWI (Perfect World International) the guild I was in did that all the time, there were some I just couldn't do, so I would farm mats and other things and they would run the dungeons to get the high level mats, and what we got excess of we sold on, and it actually paid us to find new players to teach them and get them to their max ability to increase stocks and they got goodies from it too.

    Ahh well, is what it is, guess we just put up with it or all go learn korean and play Ktera, cries in my elin snacks on that thought lol.
  • Since the last big update where BHS / EME said they were going to make changes to the dungeons so it wouldn't pay to run lowers if you had higher gear, or something to that effect.

    As a DPS toon I went from waiting 15+ minutes in que for the so called trash dungeons, aka SF, KC, RG, to almost instant que pops, and almost always a higher toon often more doing them.

    So if their intentions are to make the DS Super Elitest only, don't seem to be many taking it up as they all coming into the trash dungeons.

    The biggest problem with Tera IMHO, and not just Tera really but most modern MMO's, they make too much stuff non tradeable.

    Now, if they made everything tradeable, even if it was by trade broker only, we wouldn't even be having this discussion about elitests and lowers, as those who have the skill and gear would farm the highest dungeons, sell the gear to those who can't, win win for all.

    I remember the old days of PWI (Perfect World International) the guild I was in did that all the time, there were some I just couldn't do, so I would farm mats and other things and they would run the dungeons to get the high level mats, and what we got excess of we sold on, and it actually paid us to find new players to teach them and get them to their max ability to increase stocks and they got goodies from it too.

    Ahh well, is what it is, guess we just put up with it or all go learn korean and play Ktera, cries in my elin snacks on that thought lol.

    This was done in Neverwinter, when it first came out, and the problem is that, after a very short while, there was no reason to run the dungeons at all, because everyone already had all the gear from the trade broker equivalent, and it was cheap enough that just about anyone could afford it too.
  • PeperoncinaPeperoncina ✭✭
    edited July 2018
    Dreadspire isnt for everyone.
    If you are planning to clear it, you need a certain geared and skilled player level and, invest your time in a static-group, accepting unconscious situations that may occur and play your best in every single pull that you will do.
    Afterall, overcoming obstacles and challenges is what makes elitist players enjoyable for them.
    Personally, I'm not interested because it's not worth my time
    but I wish good luck to those who try and i hope to watch a video in youtube about the clear :+1:
  • VinyltailsVinyltails ✭✭✭✭
    The game needs challenging content as there isn't any reason to get gear. With Awakening and the lack of changing for Awakening, HH is a rollover with 1 paw strats so outside of the current high tier dungeon of AAH, there is no reason to get more gear.

    I personally stopped getting gear myself after a point (Full SC on EU and SC weap and FM gear on NA) cause Im just like "Why do I need this? I can do what i want to in this game" so adding something challenging gives people a reason to go the extra mile and get further gear and push onto Heroic Vow and push their skill to clear the content.

    Is it worth it? That's up to you really, you value stuff differently than others (Like how people see Costumes vs Enchanting stuff) but at least there is something for the hardcore players to tackle and something for the lower skilled players to look up and perhaps get motivated and work towards in an attempt to run
  • New content for Storm Cry Geared Players? Ok, fine, bring DreadSpire on!
    New content for Frost Metal Geared Players? Nah, let them keep doing the same old thing again and again until they get Storm Cry. Who Cares?

    Almost full Storm Cry, still gonna keep doing trash dungeons to buy costumes, because that's the real endgame content of TERA: Costumes.
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