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The aftermath of xigncode3

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  • CornishRexCornishRex ✭✭✭✭✭
    @IxWolfie
    People aren't bothering with constructive criticism and in my opinion that tells you more about eme than the players.

    I made a thread about Daily deals, criticising it and adding suggestions on how to make it different. Nothing was really taken into account, but I'm just one player right? They don't have to listen to the woes of just one player right?

    People have been making threads about updating all those ingame shops for a year + now. No response.

    I remember at least 3 mega threads about vanguard nerfs and people opposing it. Wasn't changed back.

    I remember at least 2 mega threads about the lack of golden/silver talents with A LOT of great suggestions on how to balance mats better and add them to actual endgame content. No response.

    The community made their own server status page because eme doesn't have theirs for like half a year now. Still. Not. Fixed.

    Day one people were making huge threads on how to improve the summer event without making it broken on either direction. No action was taken!

    I wont go on, there was a player above me that listed 30 big mistakes we have to deal with in order to play this game, so I'll just be repeating him if I continue.

    I think it's fair and reasonable to say that you can't blame people for criticising so much and for not adding the "constructive" part anymore. Is there a point? No. Eme will not change anything that can actually improve our enjoyment of the game as seen through the whole last year. They won't listen to us. Maybe they can't, I don't care, the point is they aren't doing anything. If their hands are tied or if they're just plain incompetent doesn't really affect me. People are really, really unhappy with this publisher. Everyone's just making fun of eme because it's really easy to do and honestly at least laughter makes me come back to this game. Every time I see eme stumble and fall, I'd rather laugh and meme about it than cry at this point.

    So to balance things out lemme add some positive things eme did this year.

    1. Elite perma ccb, after taking it out and having a fire on the forums, we were listened to! Yay!
    2. Dyeable costumes direct to buy, namely the winter one will remain my only relevant example because it has a reasonable price.
    3. Crab event for consumables. That's on player council though, iirc this was not eme's idea.

    That's about... It.
  • allofspaceandtimeallofspaceandtime ✭✭✭✭✭
    Xerses wrote: »
    IxWolfie wrote: »
    I feel like if anything, this constant "EME is doing things wrong", is what makes people quit. You can be annoyed, you can point fingers, but you're not helping anyone by doing this. Attacking the only people who have a chance to save the game that you care about isn't going to help. Constantly going at the team and the game itself just isn't going to work. All you're doing is showing that our community morale is low, as stated above, and that alone can easily deter players.

    That being said, I think people get easily lost on this point, and assume you're saying "stop pointing out what EME is doing wrong." But really, the point is just to keep a constructive tone. And that means, even if people are mad/frustrated/disappointed about the state of the game, to resist hyperbole, fabrications, unnecessary drama, and personal attacks. 90%+ of the time I argue against "criticism" on this forum, it's because of argumentative failures like that. Why? Because those types of poor arguments only hurt our chances at being listened to, and eliminating that kind of cruft puts into focus what the true problem is, and hopefully ways to solve it.

    I realize a lot of people feel burnt out from "trying" to be constructive, but if you actually do care about the future of the game, you have to try to work with what we've got. At the same time, there are also a number of people on this forum who are just here for the schadenfreude of "watching the game die," and letting them define the tone is admitting defeat.

    But you're player council. Shouldn't you be the one, by definition, to take our feedback, put them into a well structured argument and submit that to EME? Have you? Has anything ever been achieved by communicating our feedback to EME? I feel as if player council is just a title people want to wear to make themselves feel important while contributing nothing credible to the community what so ever. Where were you guys during the leak? Where were you guys during the XC controversy? Where are you guys now?

    the question isn't where are the player council members, the question is where are the eme staff. where is our new cm at? shouldn't she be here to maybe answer a few of our questions at least concerning this server merge? so far with these threads, I haven't seen any useful information coming from them. do we have to go to twitch, twitter, facebook, youtube, etsy, amazon, or some other website besides the official tera website? the player council memebers have stated time and time again that they themselves have no power at all, and that eme may or may not listen to them, but ultimately its all eme and bhs that has the power. I think player council was initially created with good intentions to try and bridge the gap between staff and players, but that got thrown out the window, and now we have the grand canyon between staff and players. I remember when spacecats talked about eme was going to be more transparent with the players and communicate better and more with us.
    I know eme claims its all on bhs and that they cant really do anything, so my question is what do they actually do everyday? people are tired of being treated like mushrooms and now and have been leaving for a long time. I know this is a free to play game, but I would respect them more if they just came out and said its our way or the highway, and if you don't like it , then leave, rather than pretending to care about the game's future and the players.
  • edited July 2018
    Xerses wrote: »
    But you're player council. Shouldn't you be the one, by definition, to take our feedback, put them into a well structured argument and submit that to EME? Have you?
    That's literally what I try to do all the time. This is why I push back on the BS/hyperbolic arguments people make and try to make sure I understand the usable/valid part of the feedback, so I can forward it clearly. (Of course I have my own opinions about things too, but I try to focus on making what the community is saying understandable.) So, yes. That is the main thing I try to do.

    Xerses wrote: »
    Has anything ever been achieved by communicating our feedback to EME?
    Yes. But in the realms where our feedback is sought and considered. There's a lot we have no say in, and eventually it stopped becoming a focus other than just explain what people are mad about. And of course we don't always get what we want either; it's usually a big compromise. But it's better to have input and be part of a compromise than not having any input at all.

    Xerses wrote: »
    I feel as if player council is just a title people want to wear to make themselves feel important while contributing nothing credible to the community what so ever.
    I can't control your feelings, but we do everything that we are able to do. It's not as much as you apparently think it is, and it's not as much as we all wish it could be.

    Xerses wrote: »
    Where were you guys during the leak? Where were you guys during the XC controversy? Where are you guys now?
    If you mean the XIGNCODE "leak," I was figuring out how the information got out there (which I figured out on my own by testing the patch servers), and expressing my concerns about the change and how it was (or wasn't) communicated. There was an awful lot of discussion about this issue at the time, but PC chat is under NDA. And during the XC "controversy" I was here on the forum trying to separate out the bad/paranoid arguments (there were a lot of them) from the valid points so I could bring them forward -- which I did. (I kept fighting against the bad/paranoid arguments because they were drowning out the actual valid points that needed to be heard.) And now, there are discussions ongoing about many current topics, including the server merger, a certain exploit, and bunch of other things. I'm being vague because, again, it's under NDA.


    You talked about how you think the community spends a lot of time fighting each other, but what you're doing here is really no different. The problems this game has are not because the Player Council "isn't doing its job." It's because the vast majority of decisions are not up for debate or discussion, and we have no "vote" in the final decision. We give input. It's up to all the powers that be to use that input or not.

    If people want to make this process of communicating feedback easier, they could just stop these pointless personal attacks, insinuations, drama, fabrications, hyperbole, etc. etc. and just make constructive useful posts/threads about the real problems the game has and realistic ways to fix it, ideally that are consistent with already-stated policy and direction. This is why I spend a lot of time trying to explain the apparent policies and directions -- so that people can take that into account to make suggestions that have a better chance, rather than things they'll just dismiss. Even then it's no guarantee they'll implement the suggestions, but I'd like to improve the odds. There's really not much else I think can be done.
  • edited July 2018
    Xerses wrote: »
    I was talking about the enchanting material cost leak from a certain content creator site that writes guides for Tera

    We were questioning the wisdom of providing this kind of sensitive information (that Player Council didn't even have) to an outside group that didn't have an NDA. As a result, both this outside group and Player Council had to sign an NDA, but EME also decided they would not share this kind of sensitive information anymore anyway.


    Aside, for this point in particular:
    shouldn't she be here to maybe answer a few of our questions at least concerning this server merge? so far with these threads, I haven't seen any useful information coming from them.
    My understanding is that they haven't made these decisions yet. That's why I'm preparing a list of questions from the community to try to get them considered before the decision is made (and hopefully influence the decisions somewhat). As I've expressed on the forum repeatedly, I don't think telling people with excess characters to throw out their purchases is okay, and I want to at least make sure that argument is clearly presented -- whatever they decide to do about it.
  • edited July 2018
    Xerses wrote: »
    That's good though, good to question their wisdom because if we continue to accept things as they are nothing will get better.

    Honestly, I would contend that this community has never once "accepted things as they are" and has been relentlessly critical from the moment EME started accepting feedback about this game. Since well before the original launch, there has never been a lack of criticism. This is partly why I don't spend my days on here writing all sorts of screeds about what's wrong with the game; it's already there in over-abundance. What's often lacking, it seems to me, is a bigger perspective that extends beyond strictly our point of view as a player. And when you consider other perspectives, many of the things that people like to "question their wisdom" about are not actually as mysterious as people think. Not all, of course -- sometimes it's a simple, near-sighted mistake (like the "leak"). But not everything is like that either. There is also a degree of criticism that can be levied at the community in some cases as well, and this sort of introspection (trying to see both sides of an issue to figure out where the compromise may lie) is also part of trying to be constructive. If all one ever does is only "question someone's wisdom" without also questioning their own, how much wisdom is really there to begin with?
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited August 2018
    @counterpoint For what it's worth, I have nothing but respect for you and the rest of the Council. But what baffles me and several others is that you guys were brought on to be intermediaries between the rest of us and EME, but are then penalized for trying to be intermediaries between the rest of us and EME.

    I'm sure you know players at large in any fandom don't like being left in the dark (as seen in the original XignCode debacle). So you and the other Councilmen are given information that you can't share, and EME sure as d*ck isn't saying anything, which them gives the impression that no one's listening and/or no one cares. And the situation becomes further exacerbated as such.

    Like, why does EME keep you around just so you *can't* do your jobs properly thanks to rules that EME themselves installed? It's mind-boggling.
  • ZingoPingoZingoPingo ✭✭✭
    voidy wrote: »
    Hmm... lack of attention in what way? From my perspective, pvp content is the only thing in the game worth doing; you get hundreds of free talents, even if you lose. Don't even have to meet an ilvl to get a reward, unlike pve, and I can do it as many times as I want in a day with no limit on vanguard dailies, unlike pve.
    Just because the rewards are good, doesn't mean the content is.

  • AmbitsAmbits ✭✭
    DL7MMWLJ3W wrote: »
    Xigncode was just part of the issue that keeps lowering the existing playerbase and keeping new players to replace them.

    1. No more customer service live chat so have to wait weeks or months on issues.
    2. Removing majority of EMP products in shop and make them overpriced and limited each day to make ppl feel like they need to get it before it's gone again.
    3. Removal of costume swap when race changing.
    4. PvP hacking and cheating still ongoing.
    5. Rarely any control or knowledge of their content.
    6. Website ended up downgrading so no official server status or roadmap list.
    7. Patch notes are no longer present on the website, but pasted on the forum that doesn't feel all that profressional.
    8. Bringing hush hush events to those that afks or have no lifes where they follow Discord while ppl that doesn't log anymore would actually log in for events if they knew it would happen preemptively.
    9. Finding information of importance from multiple sources like Twitter, Discord, Twitch, Reddit, etc rather than making it all into one resource so we don't have to scavenger hunt to find out what's really going on.
    10. Scary to play a game towards a publisher that doesn't have control of their content nor knowledge about the game's future and econemy. Remember, the account does not belong to you and they can do whatever it pleases to them whether you like it or not.
    11. PvP no longer fair due to greedy exploiters.
    12. Every single leaderboard introduced in this game almost fails due to exploits and ends up not getting punished over it so it promotes ppl not be ethical so you can gain the advantage over simple plebs.
    13. Game becoming more content locking.
    14. Bluehole planning to sneak in more DPS advantages by spending cash.
    15. Removing double vanguard on IoD where it didn't need to be touched in the first place.
    16. Remove that annoying 5 second delay on switching channels and just did it instantly.
    17. People are tired of rerolling to every FOTM or getting shafted due to Awakening 1 > vanilla classes.
    18. The whole gear revamp just ends up being too much headache and having bad RNG for all that work will slap you in the face.
    19. Crafting takes way too long and higher tier gear needs more crafting time for a single try is stupid.
    20. People witchhunt on steamers that has a faint of mods on it and that person gets suspended or banned cause that witchunter is a crybaby.
    21. Players who are insensitive to Virtual Elins will end up hating this game much thanks to Elin Brawlers cause MERICA WE NEED BEEFY RACE.
    22. Bluehole showing no care about feedbacks on here and it really hits me when I see a person spending hours on their post for positive feedback only to be disappointed that nothing ever happens.
    23. Good players coming on this board making remarkable comments by only to getting shafted by [filtered] people that is only here to make arguments because they have nothing good happening in their life.
    24. Optimization will never happen, get over it. It sort of helps when you use... better not say it or else I'll get censored.
    25. Why oh why we don't have a training grounds that tells your DPS is beyond me...
    26. Why this game doesn't have a better cross-queue system that shows the player's profile before you begin so you don't end up with someone who wants the carry. So people just end up kicking just to pair up with a friend from another server.
    27. Playerbase losing internet every single day and Bluehole keeps bringing content that doesn't cater to their larger audience.
    28. New weapon skins starting to be generic and unoriginal.
    29. Amani feet (if you get what I mean)
    30. Feels strange that you need to use so many apps and tools just to increase the benefits and experience of playing this game whereas other MMOs I only need to launch the game itself and I'm done. The times has changed.

    I could go on and on.

    Don't worry, that didn't take long to type cause it was very easy to list.

    thanks for doing what i intended to do
  • Lapomko wrote: »
    Make Xigncode detect all the users that bypassed it. Have a delayed ban that triggers in 1 week like vac for 100 years so they can pass their account to their grandchildren. I would laugh so much if they would actually do that.

    Not suprised the game is dying because after every patch the game get worse due to false masquerading p2w new gear system which was supposed to make it easier and less grindy. And soon +3 heroic vow guys..

    this.. please... X100000 @seandynamite @CobaltDragon @KitTeaCup
  • YordanYordan ✭✭✭
    edited July 2018
    It's xigncode on top of everything else, for me gigantic nerfs of jackpots were big part of it too. Another part was failing Heroic and seeing how it's 2% extra for failing instead of 3%. I'll pass on farming bams for months to keep collecting 244 plates, on Eu I'm swimming in golden talents.

    So yea, personally I'm currently in EU Tera despite being sc +9 here, for now I don't see point in playing here.
  • KillerPenguinsKillerPenguins ✭✭✭✭
    Xigncode made some people quit, yeah... but it was never the main issue, anyone who really wanted to play TERA spent 3 minutes removing it and kept playing, but when a company makes a dozen changes in a row that nobody asks for or wants for no visible reason with little advance warning while completely ignoring their playerbase's repeated questions and concerns? yeah, that makes people leave.
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