The only solutions

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  • LapomkoLapomko ✭✭✭
    You guys don't realise what proxy does to people with very low ping already. On EU my ping is 15ms and I can cancel my skills much faster and earlier than I could normally. Could also chain and do my rotation faster as skills can be cancelled earlier. On PVP I can escape CC's so basically it's cheating.
  • Saabi wrote: »
    I'm not gonna sit here and argue with you about this. There's more evidence proving me right, right now. So go ahead, your flame bait is not about to work here.

    Let the haters hate. The future will not change unless they change.
  • 6AWC3DP9PR6AWC3DP9PR ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    SageWindu wrote: »
    @Victorpresti @Saabi
    Can either of you explain to me where this "You need a proxy to run high-end content." mentality originated? Because that implies even the people with relatively low or stable ping shouldn't be able to do anything either, and I think I can safely say that I qualified as such a player (you know, when TERA wasn't being a c**t for no reason).

    To your question, it's mainly valid for it to be held as a necessity for players with inordinately high ping, probably anything above 90. You could argue the game is designed around Korean ping, and that use of it is valid for anyone who doesn't enjoy Korean ping or the same framerate as players with the Nexon client, but maybe that holds less water. I couldn't say for sure, but I understand the sentiment.

    For some background, Saabi is the dominate Slayer in NA, probably the world per Moongourd. As a peer of his, he's basically written the book how to play Slayer, and has majorly contributed to numerous guides as well as the Slayer discord. He, assuredly, is not a player content or satisfied with clearing ilvl-whatever dungeons. His interests are more like pursuing higher DPS personal bests, taking on the challenge of Dreadspire, and theorycrafting. Without the intervention of third-party developers to write sites and apps like Moongourd and ShinraMeter, whatever opinion people might hold about tera-proxy (perhaps a separate topic altogether), there is little reason for a player like him to continue, and little reason to play to begin with.

    NA TERA is (perhaps was?) a highly international population of players. Many players with great investments of money and time did indeed use tera-proxy in benign manners using skill-prediction and fps-utils to compensate for bad ping as well as poor FPS to be able to play the game more closely to intention. That is, with low enough skill registry in order to sufficiently react to mechanics and the actions of party members, and to have high enough framerate to follow the action. TERA, at its basest, is probably the most mechanically intensive MMO yet to be made when playing a class near to or at its capacity, like the Quake equivalent of the genre.

    The fallout of EME's choice to issue DMCAs to the repositories of third-party devs has in turn given the developers of ShinraMeter cause to withdraw support for NA come October 16th. This is tremendous loss to players across the board for a few different reasons. People like Saabi, who play for the sport of it, lose drive to continue gearing, continue playing, on account of the loss of the very program which facilitates competition, incentivizes the pursuit of excellence at once's class. It is bad for developing players who hope to become better because they lose data to reference for improvement; crit rates, HPM counts, damage contribution percentages.

    If the harsh choice to take down all of it were actually on account of rampancy of clandestine extensions of proxy, it would surely not have culled the number of players, and especially players of high caliber, as it has. If it were, a player of Saabi's caliber, who certainly did not have issue finding parties for dungeons before this fiasco, would not have reason to talk about it now.

    My post structure is probably all over the place but I have a lot to say about the gravity of the situation, so please excuse the flow.

  • VictorprestiVictorpresti ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    SageWindu wrote: »
    @Victorpresti @Saabi
    Can either of you explain to me where this "You need a proxy to run high-end content." mentality originated?
    How else are you supposed to clear content without mechs being called out before they happen to you in your chat log?
    How else are you supposed to lower your HP in dungeons by falling from the sky?
    How else is your nostrum going to automatically pop itself when you res before the res animation is even finished?
    How else do you skip right to the last boss?
    How else are you supposed to dodge firewalls in HH?
    How else are you never going to miss backstab?
    How else are you going to autoblock on warrior?
    How else are you going to autocleanse?

    Not saying everyone uses those but my point is, there's much more than just SP and DPS Meter. They could've stopped there and we wouldn't be here today. It's their own fault for pushing the boundaries.

    Indeed most people don't use those. Mechanic calling was always very basic, didn't really help anyone who couldn't clear in the first place and for people who could clear it's just redundant, you already automatically dodge everything from muscle memory.

    You can lower your HP for slaying in one second using in-game mechanics without doing anything special, just changing your gear profile if you do it right.

    Nostrums should be automatic 100% of the time active for elite/Tera club users. There's not ever a reason when you don't want it save for outskirts 1v1.

    Skipping to last boss? As far as I'm aware only worked on VS because of the portal.

    Dodging firewalls really just made it easy, ethical people were copying other regions trying to find the perfect spot by looking at the video and matching the cracks on the ground to put down the signs, proxy just made that process easier.

    'never miss a backstab' That's a really dumb statement, all it does is when you backstab and nothing happens it doesn't go on cd because of the game extremely potato coding that even allow you to 'backstab nothing' in the first place, triggering the cooldown and potentially ruining your rotation or getting you killed because you wouldn't get the iframe or even leave the spot in the first place while being stuck in animation.

    Autoblock is a feature from a certain SP, which costs quite a bit of money. That's one I can agree that shouldn't be allowed, the problem isn't 'blocking', no one would want a proxy to autoblock everything it's super bad since you want to facetank a lot of stuff, you'd lose A LOT OF DPS by just leaving it as 'auto block every thing'. The real point to it is perfect inhuman block cancels.

    Autocleanse also isn't readily available, very very small amount of people have and use it. on PvE cleanse is simply pre-cleansing everytime the boss does a stun move, anyone decent can do that.

    Again the ones I just agree that shouldn't be thing is auto-block cancel for warriors, autocleanse which is already really rare as it is and any sort of exploit to get to the last boss.
  • ZingoPingo wrote: »
    SageWindu wrote: »
    @Victorpresti @Saabi
    Can either of you explain to me where this "You need a proxy to run high-end content." mentality originated?
    How else are you supposed to clear content without mechs being called out before they happen to you in your chat log?
    How else are you supposed to lower your HP in dungeons by falling from the sky?
    How else is your nostrum going to automatically pop itself when you res before the res animation is even finished?
    How else do you skip right to the last boss?
    How else are you supposed to dodge firewalls in HH?
    How else are you never going to miss backstab?
    How else are you going to autoblock on warrior?
    How else are you going to autocleanse?

    Not saying everyone uses those but my point is, there's much more than just SP and DPS Meter. They could've stopped there and we wouldn't be here today. It's their own fault for pushing the boundaries.

    Thank you, finally some one who speaks the truth, btw saabi suck a [filtered] you use robotjs bern scripts
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    JXG4WWHCMA wrote: »
    ZingoPingo wrote: »
    SageWindu wrote: »
    @Victorpresti @Saabi
    Can either of you explain to me where this "You need a proxy to run high-end content." mentality originated?
    How else are you supposed to clear content without mechs being called out before they happen to you in your chat log?
    How else are you supposed to lower your HP in dungeons by falling from the sky?
    How else is your nostrum going to automatically pop itself when you res before the res animation is even finished?
    How else do you skip right to the last boss?
    How else are you supposed to dodge firewalls in HH?
    How else are you never going to miss backstab?
    How else are you going to autoblock on warrior?
    How else are you going to autocleanse?

    Not saying everyone uses those but my point is, there's much more than just SP and DPS Meter. They could've stopped there and we wouldn't be here today. It's their own fault for pushing the boundaries.

    Thank you, finally some one who speaks the truth, btw saabi suck a [filtered] you use robotjs bern scripts

    Huh? I don't use any bern scripts, macros, or any other sketchy program. So nice attempt to trash my name.

    Why does a good player always have to automatically be using broken stuff to these people on the forum. Does a good player just not exist?
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Saabi @6AWC3DP9PR
    At the risk of sounding disrespectful, I couldn't care less about skill and ranking and so on; you could clear HH solo, as a ninja, in Idoneal gear, blindfolded, with your genitalia, on a literal potato for all I care. My argument is that the common go-to line of reasoning of most people here on the forums in favor of proxies or whatever-the-hell is because they run high-end content and [filtered] everyone else because they're a bunch of scrubs. And I want to know if there's any real motive for people to keep saying that, since a lag spike can affect everyone regardless of alleged skill level.

    I used to play a lot of fighting games (dat Soul Calibur VI fam!), so I get it - even the slightest hiccup will [filtered] your gameplay all up. That said, the people who swear by outside methods of lowering ping tax can easily say "You know how difficult it is to do XYZ with 150+ ping?" and their argument who hold far more weight as opposed to saying something like "ur not even in sc" (actual quote, btw) and further increasing the divide between the playerbase, intended or otherwise.

    Look, all I'm saying is that bringing up skill level (or lack thereof) is irrelevant since ping and lag spikes don't discriminate between the player who just got their Guardian set and the player who's decking out their 20th toon in full HO gear. So why keep bringing it up?
  • KhernzKhernz ✭✭✭
    I guess all the people that can't clear content come to the forums to find some safe place. Yikes. When all you can do is accuse others for scripting or cheating because it's beyond your narrow realm of possiblity, you should probably stay off of any discussion pertaining to skill or competency in the game.
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    SageWindu wrote: »
    @Saabi @6AWC3DP9PR
    At the risk of sounding disrespectful, I couldn't care less about skill and ranking and so on; you could clear HH solo, as a ninja, in Idoneal gear, blindfolded, with your genitalia, on a literal potato for all I care. My argument is that the common go-to line of reasoning of most people here on the forums in favor of proxies or whatever-the-hell is because they run high-end content and [filtered] everyone else because they're a bunch of scrubs. And I want to know if there's any real motive for people to keep saying that, since a lag spike can affect everyone regardless of alleged skill level.

    I used to play a lot of fighting games (dat Soul Calibur VI fam!), so I get it - even the slightest hiccup will [filtered] your gameplay all up. That said, the people who swear by outside methods of lowering ping tax can easily say "You know how difficult it is to do XYZ with 150+ ping?" and their argument who hold far more weight as opposed to saying something like "ur not even in sc" (actual quote, btw) and further increasing the divide between the playerbase, intended or otherwise.

    Look, all I'm saying is that bringing up skill level (or lack thereof) is irrelevant since ping and lag spikes don't discriminate between the player who just got their Guardian set and the player who's decking out their 20th toon in full HO gear. So why keep bringing it up?

    I think everyone specifically states that SP is needed for high ping players and those who want to compete (assuming they have above 40ms). You saying you don't care about ranking and skill, automatically invalidates you. You're not trying to compete, and from how you're talking you don't have high ping either. So what are you trying to achieve from asking us this question? We aren't even concerned with people who don't fit into those two categories. As i said before, I can play just fine with nothing but most people can't because most NA player's are far from the server, getting anywhere from 10~300ms. I don't want this game to be dead, that's the only reason I'm posting here. I can find parties just fine because my group of friends can all play without proxy and sp; but most other players in TERA can't.

    As far as other people bringing up skill level, go ask them about why they say what they say. I'm only concerned for those who want to do high level content because I am an endgame player, and the endgame scene will die due to this catastrophe.
  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    And as a fellow fighting game player. I'm disappointed that you seem to be against others being able to compete in the game they are interested in regardless if you're interesting in competing in it or not. @SageWindu

    Or maybe youre just here to talk about these people who point out skill level... which I don't know why youre highlighting me about this question when I couldn't care less about people who don't farm the game in the fashion that I do. (which is just doing high level dungeons, not even about parsing)
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    @Saabi
    Aside: I'm on my phone, so I can't properly pinpoint what I'm addressing without my post looking like uncooked Alphabet Soup, so apologies for that.

    Yes, I'm referring to the people who keep trying to call out OTHER PEOPLE as part of their justification for... parsing, was it?

    How and how often you play the game doesn't concern me and vice versa. What DOES concern me however is the constant vitriol between the "casual" and "hardcore" player. This game is hemorrhaging people as it is from how it's inherently built, whether it be from general instability (Nexus anyone?), non-sensical arithmetic regarding equipment (100% XP gives me +5% chance of success?! How the f**k does that work?!), or out-of-date loot scaling and distro (75 clears in BRN and I still don't have all my Ambit gear?!), never mind EME's increasingly questionable business practices. There's no need to further poison the waters as the forums are already like wading the muck in Dark Soul's Blighttown (and if that reference is unfamiliar to you or anyone else, the water in that section of the game is LITERALLY poisonous).

    You were referenced because you were one of 2 people who had the most recent responses at the time and I thought you could perhaps give me some insight on the situation. "Knowledge is half the battle" and all that.
  • SageWinduSageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Also, I never said anything about being against competing. As I said, I used to play a lot of fighting games and I was notoriously merciless - if you weren't on my team, you were nothing more than another obstacle to overcome, regardless of you having the game for 10 minutes or 10 years. And I was FREQUENTLY accused of smurfing, cheating though elaborate (...or otherwise) combos and techniques, "not playing for fun," you name it.

    All I'm saying is that some people's arguments appear flawed for reasons I'e already stated.
  • ZingoPingoZingoPingo ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    Mechanic calling was always very basic, didn't really help anyone who couldn't clear in the first place and for people who could clear it's just redundant, you already automatically dodge everything from muscle memory.
    It wasn't "very basic" as you say. It was exactly what to do, and what is coming next. VSH and RKH both required mech memorization and basic problem solving. (Soul/real & red/green) With the module, you don't have to do anything except observe the chat.
    You can lower your HP for slaying in one second using in-game mechanics without doing anything special, just changing your gear profile if you do it right.
    But people still chose fall from the sky in the dungeon, every time I did HH or RKH.
    Nostrums should be automatic 100% of the time active for elite/Tera club users. There's not ever a reason when you don't want it save for outskirts 1v1.
    That's your opinion and not how the game is.
    This isn't fair play:
    Skipping to last boss? As far as I'm aware only worked on VS because of the portal.
    Worked in RMH as well. :)
    Dodging firewalls really just made it easy, ethical people were copying other regions trying to find the perfect spot by looking at the video and matching the cracks on the ground to put down the signs, proxy just made that process easier.
    So why use it at all, if it's so easy from just observing a video?
    'never miss a backstab' That's a really dumb statement, all it does is when you backstab and nothing happens it doesn't go on cd
    This is intended, if you miss backstab, it's supposed to go cd. Nothing to do with potato code and I can dig up the patch notes if you want.
    Autocleanse also isn't readily available, very very small amount of people have and use it. on PvE cleanse is simply pre-cleansing everytime the boss does a stun move, anyone decent can do that.
    I found one on google by typing "tera autocleanse" just now. Last commit 22 days ago. Is that the definition of readily available?

    REGARDLESS.

    Just saying they should've stopped at SP and DPS meter, that's all.
  • ZingoPingo wrote: »
    Can't be bothered quoting all of dis

    Regarding mechanic calling: It's true that trivialized the mechanic, but the mechanic itself was already made trivial, most people didn't know the order because the healer or someone else would already call the order in chat. My girlfriend, who didn't use proxy, would always call the mech in both dungeons for example. VSHM in particular we cleared Lakan on literally the first attempt after the dungeon came out on EU, the mechanic is nothing special and doesn't help anyone who can clear. My evaluation is that yeh it shouldn't be a thing overall, but no harm done

    Regarding Slaying: It's people who don't know how to use the profile switch technique, what can you do when people don't know every trick and don't understand every game mechanic, they fall from the sky. Also I remember when doing my own slaying runs some people simply couldn't do it for some reason, they couldn't wrap their heads around the concept of gaining max HP but not healing that HP gained when putting certain parts of your gear back on. I think of that module as a unnecessary QoL because you can do literally the same thing without it, probably even faster and easier overall.

    About nostrum: I don't think plague should even remove the battle solution in the first place, but that has nothing to do with the subject at hand, my opinion doesn't change, you should have it on all the time unless you make the conscious decision of not for some reason.

    Skipping bosses: Obviously an exploit, they could easily fix that by spawn blocking the last boss in some way, I agree with your opinion on this one.

    HH Firewalls: It's not easier watching videos, it's a pain in the [filtered] but people do it anyway and eventually they kinda know where each sign is by muscle memory. QoL.

    Backstab: No clue what you talking about, my perspective on Backstab is purely from PvE since I don't care for PvP since.. I seriously PvPed from VM1 until around VM6 days. on PvE you should NEVER miss a backstab, the boss isn't iframing it, sometimes you miss when you're standing right next to the boss and he's standing still. Now on PvP I can see that it might be a problem IF, and only IF, as a Sorc for example when you warp barrier their backstab it doesn't go on CD. Then it would become a PvP-Only problem that has to be solved on it's own terms. for PvE it's pretty much obligatory since it can screw you up hard for no good reason other than the game decided it doesn't want it to work.


    About the autocleanse: Doesn't work with priest's cleanse, barely works with SP and isn't readily available as in you need to go out of your way to find it, no proxy community has it on their server. Again we can agree on that one, not sure what you arguing here.








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