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In attempt to clear up misinformation regarding Proxy

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Comments

  • HLK76PFWXTHLK76PFWXT ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    This might not be entirely related but.. I am seeing much less as in almost zero players running around anymore with the flashy titles that we got recently ( and especially for pit of petrax clears ).

    Just a coincidence?

  • P2W wrote: »
    The proxy code is opensource on github for anyone to review. So if there was anything malicious, you would have heard about it already. Have you?

    Of course. But what does that matter when the key thing I mentioned at the start of my reply was "auto-updating proxy code". That is a huge security hole on its own which can be easily exploited. I am not saying any of the current code has anything malicious. The point I am trying to get at is that what currently exists, can easily be used by someone with other things in mind.

    The easiest way to put this into easy to understand terms for non-technical readers of this thread is lets say I decide to create a desirable proxy module with the intent of social engineering the users of it where they trust it to a huge degree (using the same techniques that phishers use to gain peoples personal information when they sort of go into auto-pilot mode). Before that though, I have to engage with the existing developers in order to become known amongst them. Once you gain a degree of trust there, the next step is the software. The open source code on the repository does not have to contain the malicious code for a long period of time because social engineering is a multiple step process. There is absolutely nothing from stopping me from pushing an update out one day in the future that will deploy a payload onto a players PC when they run their proxy (which initiates the auto-update process). I could even use small amounts of obfuscated javascript; the objective is that it will one day deploy a package to the players PC and run it (via a binary set to run in the future) where it can do anything because the proxy is running as administrator.

  • SaabiSaabi ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    AxeI wrote: »
    Babit wrote: »
    The point I want to make here is this. ALL again ALL of these exploits are done through manipulating packets with proxy. You run a script beside your much loved skill predict and all of the sudden you get a massive massive dps gain for essentially playing brainless nooby zerk style. Using the same keystrokes without the script would result in sub 1m dps in even 446 dungeons. Somebody playing that simple doesn't have any business in a 453.

    Now I as a competitive zerk player who strives to be one of the best while having never exploited the game am put into a predictiment. I'm barely relevant to the late game scene when people using these scripts are posting numbers that are 3m~ higher than mine. Which in turn makes me lose passion in the game because I start to feel like I am forced to start exploiting and scripting my class to just stay relevant. This is incredibly unhealthy to the late game community and the same can be said for other classes like warrior, sorc, and lancer.

    Now take in to account the in game competitive leaderboards. If you look at pit of petrax. The top rank for zerk on kaiator is 8~ seconds. I'm not sure how exactly this was achieved but there's no way it's ethical. I hold the 3rd rank at 15~ seconds. I'm a full heroic oath bis jewelry zerk. I rerolled my weapon for aggro damage. Changed as many rolls as I could on jewelry. Popped full max consumables with slaying and the new fiery buff. Had a party give me arush and energy stars before entering and developed a special unleash rotation. I could maybe push a couple of extra seconds out with pure skill/rng but to cut the time in half? There's no way that's actually possible without exploiting. So how fair is that? How is proxy allowing people to make these things a reality actually helpful to the health of the game? "More friends and rivals to play with" Give me a break. If that is the rival I have to face let them stay in EU or wherever they came from.

    The game does rely on low ping to function at peak performance but if the solution to that problem also gives the ability to braindead a class and post dps numbers that are completely unattainable by someone not doing the same exploits I'll take a hard pass everytime.

    I was really going to argue against the first part of what you said but as I read more I couldn't agree more. As someone that never relied on the sketchy "scripts" that the tops have, I was considered a bad lancer because I didn't use the advantages provided by Bernkastel's script. No matter how hard I try to play manually and try to compete, I could never reach the level of the low pinged + Bern script Lancers. It was truly demotivating and bumming.

    Even a script that you press ONE button and it does your whole Lancer rotation or in the press of one button you will do Shield Barrage (with block cancel) -> chained into spring automatically. Super demoralizing.

    I don't know your ping but do not be discouraged by the presence of bern script and macros. The best Lancer in NA imo, Miko, doesn't use skill prediction, bern script, nor macros. However he does have low ping.

    Also certain classes possess broken stuff with scripts namely Zerk, Gunner, and macro Lancers and Reapers; however you shouldn't use this as an excuse to not be present in the "endgame scene". These things, although they give an advantage, still won't outshine a player that is better than them. Bad players still die, still don't do optimal rotations outside of their burn skill, and have poor boss knowledge etc. I personally don't give a damn if a zerk does 8m or 5m, as long as they do good damage generally "over 4m" and can not be a burden. I think this holds true for most players.

    Also a lancer's dps, although nice to be high, isn't even important. It's mostly about how well you use your buffs, enrage, and positioning. A greedy lancer who is not a team player is useless to me.
  • I wouldn't say i'm not "present" in the endgame scene. I get plenty of runs and can have a good time playing. I don't get to compete on a level that I would like to though.
  • Would anybody even view proxy in a bad light if all it did was SP, dps meter, and TCC?
  • > @LordXenon said:
    > Would anybody even view proxy in a bad light if all it did was SP, dps meter, and TCC?

    Yes because there are people that will quote the ToS like a bible and the last time I checked, they're against it.
  • Lets face it 90% of the proxy users would use it to cheat, just like every proxy for every game mmorpg ever. Latency fixing was only a side effect. If you come here to complain that you needed it just to play the game properly "as it was intended" nobody believes you, assume you are just butthurt you cant cheat anymore or cant use your dps meter to bash others because their dps didn't live up to your standards. so go away and quit whining. good riddance i say.
  • DYLW5HFXJHDYLW5HFXJH ✭✭
    edited October 2018
    LordXenon wrote: »
    Would anybody even view proxy in a bad light if all it did was SP, dps meter, and TCC?

    Yes, because it's not a baseline feature for players. It is against the ToS as the next player said, however saying that people like me will recite it like the bible is false, at least in my case. You can sit here and tell me all day long that these developers have done nothing wrong, and I would disagree, considering the amount of propaganda out there, especially by Bern (Calling your response 'donezo manifesto'?). Talk to the guy for an elongated period of time on the matter and you'll see that just as biased as EME can be, these developers can be the same, or worse. Digressing, giving your trust to a program that auto-updates with zero liability, on a game that may or may not be on its last legs in NA, to people who have clearly shown they enjoy the profit, is one of the stupidest ideas you could believe in. That's just considering if people get these scripts from the source. Need I mention the fiasco of unlimited reward credits exploit that landed several players in the 'doom zone'? At the end of the day, these releases are making choices that aren't theirs to make, for other people. And again, it is not a feature that a lot of players will use. I would even go so far as to say the base line of players at 65 would have no idea about this sort of thing, and get discouraged.

    Ping was a discussion on this game far before proxy. We used to admire people who lived in Chicago but it wasn't the debate it is today. We have been given a toxic tool in what was already a somewhat toxic community, and it just made things worse, not better. Just like Babit, I, too, prided myself on doing excellent at the game. It got to the point where it was the only thing keeping me coming back, to waste just practice, dedication, and not gonna lie, the enjoyment to say I was better than most. When you play at a higher level, it's generally with other higher level players, and let me tell you, most of those players got a hold of what they could as soon as possible some even paying more than what they would now, for that ability, and third party services started a LOT earlier than mid-rmhm. Then came the drama of each guild reporting the other guilds members, planting people, sniping streams, whatever they could to eliminate the competition. You had to wonder back then, is this person using cheats to get ahead? How did he get that kind of damage boost overnight? I quickly went from top 5 parses to top 50 if that over several months and a new patch. Once HH came out, it was alll over, the archer and ninja sp had been expanded publicly, and here we are with what we have today.

    If SP was a basic service provided to all players, given a STRICT LOCKED ping tax delay, not what it is now, and our community wasn't so toxic and hungry for beating the competition in any way they can, I'd be a hell of a lot more apt to support it. None of these are true, especially the last one, so I can't.
  • HLK76PFWXTHLK76PFWXT ✭✭✭
    edited October 2018
    MaiAura wrote: »
    Lets face it 90% of the proxy users would use it to cheat, just like every proxy for every game mmorpg ever. Latency fixing was only a side effect. If you come here to complain that you needed it just to play the game properly "as it was intended" nobody believes you, assume you are just butthurt you cant cheat anymore or cant use your dps meter to bash others because their dps didn't live up to your standards. so go away and quit whining. good riddance i say.

    Truthfully.. it was the devs that taught directly or indirectly about how Tera can be "improved" teaching the masses so many things while it was the same devs that created a tool which can be used in an very abusive way and at the same time it was the community that took it for granted and abused it as much as possible when they could all have created it and used it to actually improve the gameplay ( i really doubt that EME would have done anything special if the line was not being crossed over and over again ) ... Then the same devs and community players were unhappy when their little toy was broken .. Though i have to admit that NA has a ton of international players that relied so much on this tool because of ping and i do hope that EME will be able to find a fix for this issue..

    ..

    I am playing Tera on NA since 2013 and to be honest most of the players were playing the game normally until some names appeared with a torch in their hand and guided them to "Nirvana"
  • ElinLoveElinLove ✭✭✭✭✭
    LordXenon wrote: »
    Would anybody even view proxy in a bad light if all it did was SP, dps meter, and TCC?

    Mixed opinion here if that was the case.

    Tho I've already said it so many times and won't post the full thing again, just as a TL;DR cause I know people won't bother re-reading something they didn't read in the 1st place:

    It would only be fair, if it would be for everyone without needing to risk yourself. Abiding by the rules should NEVER be a disadvantage to anyone, but doing so locks you out of the Skill Predictor and it's other bonuses. Add to that, that it also gives more advantage for who already has geographical advantage (negating entirely the "even playfield" ideology), and also it has enough disadvantages on the desync issues that actually negatively affect others who use it or not, that I cannot side with it.
    Whoever I'm definitely not against the use of a DPS meter, or also posting results on a competitive leader board, I'm definitely 100% against it's use for harassment tho.
  • MaiAura wrote: »
    Lets face it 90% of the proxy users would use it to cheat, just like every proxy for every game mmorpg ever. Latency fixing was only a side effect. If you come here to complain that you needed it just to play the game properly "as it was intended" nobody believes you, assume you are just butthurt you cant cheat anymore or cant use your dps meter to bash others because their dps didn't live up to your standards. so go away and quit whining. good riddance i say.

    Then optimized games like Warframe and world of Warcraft are cheating, because they got ways to alleviate lag.. Makes sense, I mean they ARE leading in popularity and sales.

    *shrug* Guess I'm the 10% that uses proxy vanilla then. Who cares about mentality and lack of patience when you can just blame everyone and be done with it :) Yeah! Get those antichrist proxy people off my christian server!


    Jokes aside, then again I suppose all this is the consequence of the lack of official support, you get others deciding the rules for you, of course some people would thing it would be unfair.. If altering the game's functionality was the intention, then yeah it would be unfair; But from how I take it, that's definitely not the way the developers intended it to be. Maybe they even weren't expecting proxy to blow up like that, judging by (correct me if i'm wrong, i didn't play then) when they added some functionality that made gameplay smoother at around the end of 2017. I greatly appreciate the massive effort they went through in order to get a fair program into the scene, I can't imagine the amount of coding behind that application, though maybe the modification aspect of it was a bit of an oversight. I definitely don't think this is a black or white case like some here point out.

    (Btw tera proxy is the only proxy that at least I've seen floating around a formerly popular game that actually has some leverage)
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