The grind

Comments

• Nopi ✭✭✭✭✭

  October 2018

  Do note that "The People" is usually a section of like minded souls who join and talk about what they liked. This seems to happen in any game that gets regular updates like MMOs and other multiplayer offerings. There will always be players sad/angry at seeing changes to the things they liked. The more a game changes, the more of these groups of people, divided by "eras", you will see.

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• Jerichow ✭✭✭✭

  October 2018 edited October 2018

  It's kinda complicated. I love TO grind, but I do not love THIS grid.
  
  I'll be comparing a few far more successful titles in this post, but first I'll compare it to another game I play a lot of - Warframe and EVE Online (yes yes, I know, different game designs, but the grind is the point of discussion). Comparing to Warframe first. That game is a crazy grind from start to... well, you never quite finish that game. It's a looter-shooter, you don't get any grindier than games like that. But the difference is it's fun - there are a few reasons for this.
  
  1: Depth - The grind in Tera is how they described Sea of Thieves - "As wide as an ocean. As deep as a puddle." - there is grinding to be done in this game to be sure, the disgusting amount of work you have to put in for materials is simply mental. Worse yet, how do you get the materials? Dungeons or Vanguard/IoD. That's really about it. Worse yet? Dungeons are just an incredibly simple point-A-to-point-B boss rush. There is nothing to differentiate one run from another. Same with IoD, you just show up, kill 10 of the same BAM and then you collect your reward.
  
  There is no depth.
  
  2: Meaning to the Grind - What do I mean? Simple, the work I put into something in these games GUARANTEES ME THAT REWARD. I'm currently leveling up a weapon in Warframe - there is no RNG to this process. I do missions, and just play the game, and it levels up so I can upgrade it. I can do harder content to level it faster - the same way that Tera GearXP should have worked from the start. Because in this way, I know that there is no waste of time getting that item to level-cap, and that one difference can make or break the grind.
  
  3: Pacing - People love to grind, that is no mystery. The problem is, BHS/EME can't differentiate between the kinds of grinding people like to do. Namely, Koreans are hopelessly addicted to their slot machines and RNG mechanics. They simply can't live without them. The players in the US however are completely different, we want RNG-less grind. The less RNG we have, the happier we are.
  
  Why? We've said it a thousand times before on these forums - We want grind that rewards our dedication and effort. Like another game I used to play - EVE Online. I lived the grind in that game for disgusting amounts of time, for 8+ years, for up to 16 hours at a time to achieve goals, and the main reason I was able to even do that was because I knew, I could even calculate how long it'd take me to get to the end result I wanted. It's that kind of, "Work in = Results out" grind that kept me in that game for nearly 10 years and why CCP was able to get several thousand dollars out of me in that time.
  
  They made a game that rewarded the work I put into it, and even though I haven't logged into the game in a few years - I don't feel even the slightest bit of regret for the time or money I put into that game, not in the same way I regret far shorter periods of grinding in Tera that ended up in absolutely nothing but sunk cost and lost materials.
  
  
  So in the end. I'll say it again - I love TO grind, but I absolutely do not love THIS, Tera's grind.

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• P2W ✭✭✭

  October 2018

  It is a lot faster to gear up in EU compared NA. The leveling event in EU gives full twist gear, daylight accessories, and a gold brooch. There are many ways to get gold talents and it's a lot cheaper on broker compared NA. No xigncode to steal your data in EU and DPS meters are official allowed. Proxy exploits can still get you banned but most people who use it for SP are generally safe.

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• metagame ✭✭✭✭

  October 2018

  the latter half of your post has zero relevance to the topic at hand

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• HLK76PFWXT ✭✭✭

  October 2018 edited October 2018

  P2W wrote: »

  It is a lot faster to gear up in EU compared NA. The leveling event in EU gives full twist gear, daylight accessories, and a gold brooch. There are many ways to get gold talents and it's a lot cheaper on broker compared NA. No xigncode to steal your data in EU and DPS meters are official allowed. Proxy exploits can still get you banned but most people who use it for SP are generally safe.

  
  I think that this kind of perspective is wrong considering that " if the players are showered with golden talents on Europe compared to North America then enchanting/upgrading is faster and/or easier" then more means better.
  
  Also, the golden talents are only a part from the enchanting/upgrading system which in their turn not only that affect the economy but at the same time they revolve around it ( by the way, if there is one thing that i would criticize at North America then it is the lack of talents/plates from dungeons.. which seems to be fixed slowly but steadily ).
  
  p.s. how many golden talents do you need to farm to pay for your elite as an optional way to get it to be able to run more dungeons per day to get the same golden talents for enchanting/upgrading

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• SageWindu High Seat of the Jedi Council ✭✭✭✭✭

  October 2018

  I'm with Jerichow: I don't hate the grind itself, I hate this particular manifestation of it - TERA'a manifestation of grinding, which has not aged well.
  
  I'm also going to using Warframe as an example off how TERA could use a few upgrades here and there. I won't be talking about gameplay as that's irrelevant in this discussion.
  
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  Mission Structure - Warframe: Variety of missions, including some story missions that can be replayed. Get a certain number of kills, kill a specific target (usually boss fights, that then reward loot), collect this data, rescue some people, defend the point, go to this spot by the lake... the list goes on.
  
  Mission Struncture - TERA: Very static: enter, go to and fight boss 1, go to and fight boss 2, go to and fight boss 3, end. Story missions cannot be replayed outside of creating a new character (save Echoes). Maybe you get some mobs sprinkled about or even the odd puzzle (e.g. Timescape). The Arena and Dreadspire are exceptions as they are gauntlets.
  
  Possible solution: Introduce more dungeon types in TERA with new and unusual clear requirements. Expand Echoes to be able to replay story missions and possibly with different outcomes (for achievements?).
  
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  Loot and Gathering - Warframe: Various in-game resources tell you exactly what drops where and from what enemy. Items can be bought/crafted that passively gather resources even while offline. For frames and weapons, pieces drop one at a time but the mission from whence it came can be farmed indefinitely (exceptions being those tied to a specific resource, such as the case with void relics and the process of trying to build the Saryn frame). Farming can be further augmented with boosters, items, or even advanced gameplay techniques.
  
  Loot and Gathering - TERA: A rare mat might drop upon killing one of the bosses, and then it's a toss-up if it's something you want/need (to say nothing of your teammates...) and whether or not you win the roll against another player who's looking for that mat. There currently exists no boosters that augment farming once a character reaches level 60 (the gold boosters almost immediately lose relevance at this point).
  
  Solution: Mats also drop from "trash" enemies and are available to everyone, but the player has to pick them up manually (or with pets). Certain mats/items are awarded to everyone immediately upon completion of the dungeon.
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  Leveling - Warframe: Many items are limited to "Mastery Rank" (read: player level). Levels of items are independent of Mastery Rank (all items have a level cap of 30 which can then be reset if the player chooses, provided they have the resources). All items (except rivens) can be obtained upon reaching a specific mastery rank threshold.
  
  Leveling - TERA: Leveling is very rapid, but nosedives around 40, then picks up at around 44 before nosediving again at 60. Gear now has an experience system to ease the enchanting process, but is very rigid. Experience is only gained upon completion of a Vanguard Request and has bizarre formulas that calculate your enchantment success chance upon reaching the Frostmetal set of equipment (i.e. 100% XP = 60% chance of success (Elite status notwithstanding)). XP also no longer carries over to the next enchantment level.
  
  Possible solution: Allow item XP to be gained by the kill rather than by quest turn in. Rework formulas so that accruing all necessary XP rewards the player with 100% enchantment success chance regardless of equipment set. Revert excess XP to carry over to next enchantment level. Or remove enchantment success rates completely; the enchantment works so long as the player has the materials for it, but increase the number of materials needed.
  
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  I think if even one of these were implemented into the game, TERA's grind wouldn't be as much of a slog as it is currently.

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