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Comments
So his test was inflated by 8%!!!!!
Not only do I know that power has diminishing returns, I very clearly said so in my post!!
I'd love to be able to test it myself. But I'm a healer. I'm not about to go and get +15 Starfall weapon and a +12 Conflate weapon just for a test.
The chart Ketoth did somehow proved my observation that pvp attack and defend work the same way as attack/defend and crit/crit resist. The dmg done increase exponentially the bigger difference between the 2 stats (assuming attack stat is always > defend, if defend > attack then you have to reverse both side of the equation - or lim(x) = 0 instead of +inf).
Thus the actual best combination would depend on your target's pvp defend. On target with high flat pvp defend (mostly healer with extra roll) % pvp dmg would work better, and on target with low flat pvp defend flat pvp dmg would work better.
If he got a +4% damage boost against 0 PvP defense, he'd still have a +4 percent boost against 20 PvP defense.
- at 0 pvp defend, the dmg increase is 34% for 37 pvp attack compare to 2% at 4 pvp attack, means the dmg increase exponentially the bigger difference in pvp attack/defend (0.5% for each pvp attack ~> almost 1%).
~~> High flat pvp attack scales really well with low flat pvp defend target.
- at 37 pvp attack, the increase are 4/4/4/3(%) at 5/10/15/20(pvp defend) means the the smaller difference, the more effective each pvp defend point gets.
To have a closer look at this point:
at 37 pvp attack, from 0 pvp defend to 20 pvp defend the dmg is reduced by 34 - 19 = 15(%)
at 16 pvp attack, from 0 pvp defend to 20 pvp defend the dmg is reduced by 13(%)
at 0 pvp attack, from 0 pvp defend to 20 pvp defend the dmg is reduced by 12(%)
means the flat pvp defend has higher effect the more your opponent stacks flat pvp attack.
~~> Low flat pvp attack BUT higher base and % pvp dmg is better suit versus high flat pvp defend target.
This conclusion is made assuming Ketoth rounded all the % to the closest integer value. I'm too lazy to recheck the actual dmg number.
This also shown that there's no BiS gear combination for all situation because it'll also depend on your opponent. Just pick a good balance combination you think it could work, because after all it's pvp, skill matters.
The % are rounded but i can increase the precision.
The problem is that the in game rounddown. If ingame the damage calculated is 3000.9 it will show 3000 and not 3001. I thjnk i could remove some pieces of armor to get higher numbers and more precision.
edit.: i redo the test with lower armor to increase precision, will do more after i come back of work
Damage_increase=((188+PvP_Damage)/(188))*((151)/(151+PvP_Defense))-1
Keep in mind that that 188 and 151 maybe are affect by bonus power and bonus endurance. I will do more tests later with different pwoer and endurance
Ps. I think 188 will be 100+base_power + bonus power. The 151 i dont have any idea yet
Two gunners, one with Starfall +15 weapon and another with Conflate, both with 0.3 crit power, 6% and 6.9% damage rolls.
Here's the stats of the Starfall gunner:
Stats of the Conflate gunner:
Both gunners have 2 Tensus pieces (Boots&Gloves), both gloves have Pumped II etching. Both have 2 Dreadnaught pieces (chest&belt), none of the chests have AB 7% extra damage roll; belt has 6 crit and 3 power. Both have 2 shademaze and 2 bloodmaze jewelry pieces (rings have 4 power/crit resist, earrings have crit resist and stun reduction).
Reason why Starfall gunner has 2 power vyrsk is because it doesn't have Vanguard Valor, i made a balance so both Gunners had the same amount of power/power bonuses, 60+108 in total.
Test subject was a Mystic with 3 Starfall pieces and 2 slaughter, using Indomitable zyrks.
Test method was using Arcane Barrage.
NOTE: Mystic is using Indomitable zyrks on the first couple of critical hits, the second couple of hits are without them. First critical hit is back damage, second critical hit is frontal damage.
This is the damage of the Starfall gunner.
This is the damage of the Conflate gunner.
Back damage was better with Conflate, but is not even noticeable. Front damage was definitely better compared to Starfall. But just like some of you already mentioned, that extra roll on the Starfall makes it better, whether if it's AS, CDR, KD damage or CT factor, those are crucial for some classes ::silenced:
I calculated the damage differences - from the back, they did the same damage. From the front, the Conflate did a huge 10% more damage!
Now, I'm not sure how to account for the 10% gap from back to front. It should only be a 7% gap.
But I disagree that the extra roll makes up for it. 4.5% attack speed is not as good as +10% damage from the front.
And with griefing zyrks equipped, the gap would probably increase by 1% more, making conflate do 1% more from behind and 11% from the front.
I can agree with this, i think it depends on the people's playstyle and preferences. I might actually keep my conflate Gun instead of spending 400k for a Starfall +15 on the broker. Tried to +15 mine but after 40 tries it didn't hit +13. I'm not P2W so i felt like crap and dismantled the gun to get some money back selling the Tier
are you two serious? im also assuming in this case you dont run savage crystals because your trying to crit from the front and are running wrathful, if you run savage and forceful in pvp then your 10% from the front is absolutely useless and starfall gains the advantage of behind damage and 4.5% or 7.2% cdr.
And if you are only doing back damage to someone in PvP, then I'd like to know your secret!
Also, that unexplained 3% gap has me curious....
If only the first tester in this thread would do the test while wearing +7 power from zyrks, when testing his conflate weapon, it would help nip this whole thing in the bud.
i'd be glad to run whatever tests, i've tried running numbers without REAL testing and my excel/google sheets skills aren't great enough for this
Conflate seems weak for some reason, even Dreadnaught eats through my HP pretty fast. I remember Schisma not doing that much damage vs Dread when they were low/mid tier... Or maybe it's just me?
Next patch, the boots PvP damage reduction gets moved to the chest. Depending on your +PvP defense, Conflate chest can be BiS next patch. The healer weapons are also good.
For a healer, Starfall healer gloves are best, since there are no defensive gloves since ninja patch.
So basically, a mix is the best.